Phantom Draft Chris25's 2011 Mock Draft

[Chris25]

I'm in the process of another update which will likely be posted tomorrow - I like changing things up and adding some new names every now and then. In the meantime, I've added the following players...

#55 Jason Williams, #72 Michael Mascoulis, #74 Elliot Yeo, #75 Jordan Wilson and #80 Jordan Staley.

Also, can you pick the change to the first round?

 

[Jonts]

I'm in the process of another update which will likely be posted tomorrow - I like changing things up and adding some new names every now and then. In the meantime, I've added the following players...

#55 Jason Williams, #72 Michael Mascoulis, #74 Elliot Yeo, #75 Jordan Wilson and #80 Jordan Staley.

Also, can you pick the change to the first round?

Could to see Staley get a mention, real talent i think hope he gets picked up somewhere

Tyson into the top 3 Wingard out surely....

 

[kayliesharks]

Could to see Staley get a mention, real talent i think hope he gets picked up somewhere

Tyson into the top 3 Wingard out surely....

Chris25 is a Wingard fan. Tyson is in my top 3 and Wingard has slipped to Port at 6

 

[Chris25]

I am a Wingard fan, he wont be going anywhere. Another SA kid in the first round wasn't so lucky though. The first three rounds of my draft are updated, the changes tomorrow will come after those rounds.

 

[tigs2010]

#77 West Coast - Waylen Manson (195cm forward - Claremont/Kururrungku)

Now that it is confirmed that Manson has nominated for the draft, I figure I should include him because he will get picked up. But I find it hard to put someone I have seen no footage of into the first round. I'm sure everyone knows of his talent, the question is how he will adapt especially considering how long it took Claremont to get him down to Perth. AFL Comparison: Liam Jurrah.'


Been massively over-hyped. Will be lucky to leave his hometown. Struggled while at his WAFL club adjusting to Perth lifestyle. Having said that WC or Freo will take a punt. Maybe as a rookie or late pick like u have him.

 

[Jonts]

Chris25 is a Wingard fan. Tyson is in my top 3 and Wingard has slipped to Port at 6

Have Tyson at 4, Wingard 3 for mine

Sheeds and CHoco would love the type of player he is

 

[Chris25]

#77 West Coast - Waylen Manson (195cm forward - Claremont/Kururrungku)

Been massively over-hyped. Will be lucky to leave his hometown. Struggled while at his WAFL club adjusting to Perth lifestyle.

I agree. Think I've been leading the charge to downplay the hype over Manson on BigFooty. Having said that I would love nothing more for Manson to go to the draft combine, to wow everyone and dispel any notions that he will struggle away from home.

I'm holding off on judging him to an extent though, just don't think you can unless you know him personally and his circumstances. However at this stage, I'm not sure if anyone but a Perth club will take the punt in the national draft.

 

[tigs2010]

Yep. It will only be a Perth club that takes him. He's also not as good as the people comparing him to Buddy. Your comparison to Jurrah is much more accurate.

On another note, what is your reasoning for dropping Grigg so far?

 

[Chris25]

I don't think Grigg is as certain a top 10 pick as many people seem to think. He might not necessarily drop as far as I have him, somewhere around the 15-20 mark might be more accurate. But if you look at those I had going ahead of him it could theoretically happen, particularly if teams picked on needs. There are also quite a few similar type midfielders on offer who will be competing with him.

I still really like Grigg, can't argue with a senior debut in the SANFL. His kicking and strength would be right up there with the best. But he isn't the biggest ball winner going around, there are more athletically gifted players and he could have more of an impact on the scoreboard.

A lot of the talk around Grigg has just been in regards to Adelaide and Port Adelaide, because he is a local kid. Considering both are picking in the top 10, I don't think you can value the home grown talent as much as you could around the 20 mark. Need to go best available that early in the draft.

 

[tigs2010]

I don't think Grigg is as certain a top 10 pick as many people seem to think. He might not necessarily drop as far as I have him, somewhere around the 15-20 mark might be more accurate. But if you look at those I had going ahead of him it could theoretically happen, particularly if teams picked on needs. There are also quite a few similar type midfielders on offer who will be competing with him.

I still really like Grigg, can't argue with a senior debut in the SANFL. His kicking and strength would be right up there with the best. But he isn't the biggest ball winner going around, there are more athletically gifted players and he could have more of an impact on the scoreboard.

A lot of the talk around Grigg has just been in regards to Adelaide and Port Adelaide, because he is a local kid. Considering both are picking in the top 10, I don't think you can value the home grown talent as much as you could around the 20 mark. Need to go best available that early in the draft.

I think if available we would have to have a look at 14. We seem to only pick players with a high skill level. We also need to weed out Jackson and Tuck from our best 22 so need inside midfielders. Toby Greene is another though would need to stack on some weight to play the role we want. Though i like the McKenzie pick as well. So much for this weak draft. I'd be quite happy with a few of the players available to us later too.

 

[Chris25]

I added some zone selections for GWS into the second post on the first page. All six likely would have been featuring in my draft if they weren't eligible as zone picks, so it didn't seem right just ignoring them.

 

[Chris25]

Chris, what separates picks 15, 26, 29, 35 and 36 - all potential kpd's. Cheers Cashy.

Talia, Lockyer, Tomlinson, Boseley and Kelly?

There are a few differences between them all, even though they are all potential AFL key defenders. Probably more in regards to playing style than size, because really what is 1 or 2 cms here or there?

Talia and Boseley are your genuine key backs - play on the best forwards and shut them out. The two of them also have runs on the board.

Tomlinson doesn't really have the strong performances yet, he is more your potential guy. Has shown good signs in that he can find the ball and rebound well, but perhaps doesn't have the strength to really be the #1 guy down back.

Lockyer and Kelly are more the third tall types. Both are solid types - Lockyer more the aggressive player while Kelly is probably the better mover. Each should find themselves a home being the third tall, but Kelly will probably play more of a roaming role or zoning off the medium forwards.

 

[Toadvine]

I'm interested to hear more about Cameron Ellis- Yolmen. Can you tell me more about his SANFL performances? Can he win the the hard ball and what is his disposal like?

I'm trying to find out as much info on the roughie type selections as Francis Jackson seems to look outside the square.

 

[Sin City]

#77 West Coast - Waylen Manson (195cm forward - Claremont/Kururrungku)

Now that it is confirmed that Manson has nominated for the draft, I figure I should include him because he will get picked up. But I find it hard to put someone I have seen no footage of into the first round. I'm sure everyone knows of his talent, the question is how he will adapt especially considering how long it took Claremont to get him down to Perth. AFL Comparison: Liam Jurrah.'


Been massively over-hyped. Will be lucky to leave his hometown. Struggled while at his WAFL club adjusting to Perth lifestyle. Having said that WC or Freo will take a punt. Maybe as a rookie or late pick like u have him.

A recruiter I spoke to was a lot more enthusiastic about Manson than he was about Dobosz. Very excited about his marking ability.

 

[Chris25]

I'm interested to hear more about Cameron Ellis- Yolmen. Can you tell me more about his SANFL performances? Can he win the the hard ball and what is his disposal like?

I'm trying to find out as much info on the roughie type selections as Francis Jackson seems to look outside the square.

I'm a big wrap for Ellis-Yolmen. Most of his football has in the SANFL U18s which makes it hard for the casual interstate watcher to get a proper read on him - no tv show about junior football in SA unfortunately. I can see him doing pretty well at the draft combine though, so hopefully he wont be considered a roughie for too long

He is a really strong midfielder, definitely knows how to use his size to his advantage. So he is good in the clearances, and not a heap of midfielders will be able to go with him in one-on-ones. Nothing wrong with his disposal either.

He is also averaging nearly 30 touches and 5 clearances this year, so he could easily play a more general midfield role. But also he stands at 191cm and 88kg, plus he moves well and offers real creativity. Would be a great fit for a team like Richmond.

The only thing I would like to see is him add an extra dimension to his game by going forward and impacting more on the scoreboard.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Are you telling me Freo is not going to take a KPP with their first pick?

In 3 years time what is Freo's spine going to look like?

They haven't spent any decent draft picks on KPP's in at least the last 5 drafts. If they don't take Kersten, Lockyer or McInnes I will be gobsmacked.

 

[Chris25]

Well for starters, the chances of us keeping our first round draft pick are slim. So really, anyone I have us taking in the first round will really be going to another team anyway.

I expect we'll take a few KPPs this year - probably at least one of Haydn Busher and Tom Lee. But I don't think we'll reach for players just for the sake of it. This year might be the one to go late for talls, especially in the rookie draft as a lot of the later options are pretty even.

Also history tends to suggest that you don't need to spend high draft picks on KPPs. Silvagni will be our full back for a long time to come, and he was a rookie pick.

 

[Toadvine]

Thanks Chris, sounds like a great prospect. Could be a good fit for us.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Also history tends to suggest that you don't need to spend high draft picks on KPPs. Silvagni will be our full back for a long time to come, and he was a rookie pick.

I disagree, you want quality you use quality draft picks. Every now and then you will find a diamond in the rough, but come on, you can't build a list with that theory, unless you get really, really lucky.

Have a look at the leading goal kicking key forwards this year:

Franklin
Reidwoldt
Hall
Kennedy
Petrie
Cloke

Besides Cloke who was taken at 39 with F/S they were all taken very early.

Now look at the AA squad key backs:

Glass, Reid, Mcpharlin, Taylor, Scarlett, Fisher

First four were all taken with early picks, Scarlett a F/S pick and Fisher was a bargain at 55.

Have a look at what Freo have spent on key forwards or backs in the last 5 years, barely even a 3rd round pick. I think they're recruitment dept has been looking very short term and will really hurt your list 3-5 years down the track.

 

[Nickos66]

Probably because we had so much luck with Murphy, Dunn, Polak, Campbell and countless more with our early draft picks.

 

[Patron]

I disagree, you want quality you use quality draft picks. Every now and then you will find a diamond in the rough, but come on, you can't build a list with that theory, unless you get really, really lucky.

Have a look at the leading goal kicking key forwards this year:

Franklin
Reidwoldt
Hall
Kennedy
Petrie
Cloke

Besides Cloke who was taken at 39 with F/S they were all taken very early.

Now look at the AA squad key backs:

Glass, Reid, Mcpharlin, Taylor, Scarlett, Fisher

First four were all taken with early picks, Scarlett a F/S pick and Fisher was a bargain at 55.

Have a look at what Freo have spent on key forwards or backs in the last 5 years, barely even a 3rd round pick. I think they're recruitment dept has been looking very short term and will really hurt your list 3-5 years down the track.

agree 100% good post. However i didn't really have a problem with freo's drafting until last year. Last year they knew they were going to be seriously thin for KPP's in the future and everyone knows they aren't easily added and take time so youve got to get on it early. Knowing this they still went with pitt (yet another outside mid) at 20 with darling still available. That absolutely blew my mind watching the draft live. It made no sense to me especially considering darling was probably rated higher than pitt at the time anyway. I still can't believe they passed on a home grown KPF.

 

[tigs2010]

A recruiter I spoke to was a lot more enthusiastic about Manson than he was about Dobosz. Very excited about his marking ability.

What did he say about the likeliness to hang around and put in for a long career?

 

[Sin City]

What did he say about the likeliness to hang around and put in for a long career?

They've only just layed eyes on him a few weeks ago. A lot will hinge on how he goes in the interviews.

Having said that, have you heard some of the crap people have said about Yarran, Dangerfield etc and their "likeliness to hang around and put in for a long career"?

 

[tigs2010]

They've only just layed eyes on him a few weeks ago. A lot will hinge on how he goes in the interviews.

Having said that, have you heard some of the crap people have said about Yarran, Dangerfield etc and their "likeliness to hang around and put in for a long career"?

From what i heard (from someone who has seen and spoken to him) is that he didn't really want to come to play WAFL. Took months to get him to play. Came and played his couple of games and was out of there ASAP. That was just to get him to Perth for a few weeks. How would he go in Melbourne for an entire year is the big ?? on him.

 

[Chris25]

I deleted your post because it was off topic to the mock, was going to move it to another thread instead. But since it meant so much to you...

I disagree, you want quality you use quality draft picks. Every now and then you will find a diamond in the rough, but come on, you can't build a list with that theory, unless you get really, really lucky.

Have a look at what Freo have spent on key forwards or backs in the last 5 years, barely even a 3rd round pick. I think they're recruitment dept has been looking very short term and will really hurt your list 3-5 years down the track.

I was talking about Fremantle, and our history of drafting KPPs. Not in general. And because we will be trading away our first rounder this year, talk of us drafting one with our first pick is pointless.

Also, you have to actually look at the KPPs on offer this year rather than just going for a KPP regardless. Other than Talia, there is no guaranteed quality in this crop of talls - best to just stick with best available, which this year would likely be a midfielder. The next surest bet amongst the KPPs would probably be Boseley.

Personally, I'd be just as comfortable taking a shot on a tall later on in the draft this year, which is what I was getting at in my previous post - there are a number of mature types who are just as promising as the players likely to go in the first two rounds, and ones who have more AFL ready bodies too. And I have guys like Raikiwasa and Wright as being better defensive prospects than someone like Lockyer, and they'll be available much later on in the draft.

As for Fremantle, as Nicko said we have drafted KPPs early in the past - but guys like Murphy, Campbell and Drum (who we invested a lot of time into) didn't develop as we expected. That has left our current recruiters having to draft with the next couple of years in mind - hence the selections of mature players later on in the draft. Sure we could have gone for Darling over Pitt, but I have no problem with going for the player we rated the highest and considering one of them had already developed physically obviously they weren't going to peak at the same time. We have taken a short term approach, I don't think anyone would deny that but guys like Silvagni and Faulks will have long careers anyway, while Roberton is looking the goods to me and Sibosado could even still make it if given another shot.