Society/Culture Christchurch Mosque mass shooting

Remove this Banner Ad

Reader mode
Ho
  • Index
    • By the way lads, and I know I’m being hypocritical given what I said earlier, but keep it civil and try to atleast listen to other points of view, no matter how idiotic you think it is. If you think it’s crap, call it out, but don’t get into personal garbage

    I’m not a mod here, but I love the fact we can chat bollocks with relative impunity, so keep that in mind and keep a light hearted tone - after all we as a country are the home of shitposting and telling others that they are campaigners

    Today was a disgrace, but we cannot let ourselves jump head first into the mire
     
  • Index
    • Herne Hill Hammer said:
    I would know why if I knew what the hell 4chans was or is. I'll have to check it out sometime, same as I never knew what StormFront was until you kept continually mentioning it.

    You're doing better work for the RWNJ in advertising than they do themselves I reckon.
    Click to expand...
    Well I certainly wouldn't know who Tommy, Milo, Yassmin or Clementine or a number of others are if not for RWNJ on BF.

    Nor did I have to see the manifesto posted on here. If I was interested would have gone to the link provided by the nutjobs that did the killing.
    Seems to me some are doing exactly what the killer asked for, 'spread his message'.
     

    Log in to remove this ad.

    its free real estate said:
    So you’re in favour of the encryption bill?
    Click to expand...

    People overwhelmingly radicalize on the internet. Islamic fundies and RWNJs alike.

    I'm more than happy for law enforcement to have the powers to infiltrate those websites and encrypted communications and hold those alt right and Islamists to account.

    It's no different to a search warrant or phone tap. Get probable cause, intercept those communications and string the bastards up by the heels.

    A law is liberal if it seeks to combat or address a harm like murder, rape, theft, fraud etc (and this is clearly a harm), and the law is proportionate to that harm, with appropriate checks and balances.

    If ASIO want to hack into and monitor RWNJs phones and 8chan and Stormfront they have my ******* blessing.

    Ditto if they want to do it to the Islamist terrorists or any other group of hate preaching nutters prome to mass killings.
     
    Herne Hill Hammer said:
    I would know why if I knew what the hell 4chans was or is. I'll have to check it out sometime, same as I never knew what StormFront was until you kept continually mentioning it.

    You're doing better work for the RWNJ in advertising than they do themselves I reckon.
    Click to expand...
    The narrative on 4chan is that it’s apparently a Jewish false flag, because reasons :drunk:
     
    Malifice said:
    People overwhelmingly radicalize on the internet. Islamic fundies and RWNJs alike.

    I'm more than happy for law enforcement to have the powers to infiltrate those websites and encrypted communications and hold those alt right and Islamists to account.

    It's no different to a search warrant or phone tap. Get probable cause, intercept those communications and string the bastards up by the heels.

    A law is liberal if it seeks to combat or address a harm like murder, rape, theft, fraud etc (and this is clearly a harm), and the law is proportionate to that harm, with appropriate checks and balances.

    If ASIO want to hack into and monitor RWNJs phones and 8chan and Stormfront they have my ******* blessing.

    Ditto if they want to do it to the Islamist terrorists or any other group of hate preaching nutters prome to mass killings.
    Click to expand...
    I know you invent your own definitions, but that’s not really liberalism. Eg what if they request Bigfooty change its https certificates and underlying infrastructure to monitor people on here and catch your private communications in the dragnet?

    What you are arguing for is a Chinese style police state, which stretches the definition of liberal beyond all meaning. I mean that’s fine, but stop pretending it is liberalism.
     
    FredLeDeux said:
    But 8chan has a page for the 'Brenton Tarrant appreciation station'.
    Perhaps he's Jewish.
    Click to expand...

    I scanned 4chan, the first two threads where “MOSSAD FALSE FLAG” and “Can we meme Brenton to be a Zionist?”

    And yes, I am that sad that I want to see what the other side says :drunk:
     
    Opts said:
    True. There has been no singular incident comparable to this terrible act of violence but don't kid yourself. The danger of attacks from Muslim extremists is very real. Far more likely and dangerous of any acts from nut jobs like this guy. We've prevented dozens of acts that would have occurred at the hands of Muslim extremists if not for the diligence of this countries law enforcement agencies and especially our intelligence agencies. We've been very fortunate, and it's only because of the abilities and powers of these agencies that this has occurred.
    Click to expand...

    The far right have a political movement across the Western world telling fellow travellers they're victims and they need to take control. Nobody encourages the Islamist attacks.
     
    Herne Hill Hammer said:
    I would know why if I knew what the hell 4chans was or is. I'll have to check it out sometime, same as I never knew what StormFront was until you kept continually mentioning it.

    You're doing better work for the RWNJ in advertising than they do themselves I reckon.
    Click to expand...

    On a forum since 2008. Yeah, you've heard of 4chan.
     
    Maggie5 said:
    Well I certainly wouldn't know who Tommy, Milo, Yassmin or Clementine or a number of others are if not for RWNJ on BF.

    Nor did I have to see the manifesto posted on here. If I was interested would have gone to the link provided by the nutjobs that did the killing.
    Seems to me some are doing exactly what the killer asked for, 'spread his message'.
    Click to expand...

    I can honestly say that I only knew of the four you've named because of here too.
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

    David Schwarz said:
    I scanned 4chan, the first two threads where “MOSSAD FALSE FLAG” and “Can we meme Brenton to be a Zionist?”

    And yes, I am that sad that I want to see what the other side says :drunk:
    Click to expand...

    I just read some of the 8chan appreciation thread. What the *?

    Makes me want to just move out to the middle of the country with no internet and live on a farm.
     
    Bomberboyokay said:
    On a forum since 2008. Yeah, you've heard of 4chan.
    Click to expand...

    I've heard of it because Malifice keeps mentioning it.

    I rarely stray from BF because I can mostly get what I want on here. I go to Whirlpool forums occasionally, like I did this morning if I want to see reviews on something and I've looked at reddit a couple of times because a bloke I used to work with was on it a fair bit. I read news from where ever I find it but for the most part when it comes to discussion forums I don't stray too far at all.
     
    Bomberboyokay said:
    The far right have a political movement across the Western world telling fellow travellers they're victims and they need to take control. Nobody encourages the Islamist attacks.
    Click to expand...

    Seriously?

    And perhaps the Alt-Right as a threat would be taken more seriously, if it wasn't used as a blanket term to cover people like Jordan Petersen and Sam Harris. It is thrown around so casually this days that it has almost lost meaning.
     
    biggiemediums said:
    I just read some of the 8chan appreciation thread. What the ****?

    Makes me want to just move out to the middle of the country with no internet and live on a farm.
    Click to expand...

    Honestly, I have just recently moved to the far south of Tasmania from Melbourne because all of our neighbours decided to apply to pack heat because of “African gangs”

    I can’t live with that fear, I’d be long far gone with a bullet in my skull if I ever was that scared of something I couldn’t see
     
    David Schwarz said:
    Honestly, I have just recently moved to the far south of Tasmania from Melbourne because all of our neighbours decided to apply to pack heat because of “African gangs”

    I can’t live with that fear, I’d be long far gone with a bullet in my skull if I ever was that scared of something I couldn’t see
    Click to expand...

    Jesus. Where were you? Cranbourne/Dandenong way?
     
    King Elvis said:
    Seriously?

    And perhaps the Alt-Right as a threat would be taken more seriously, if it wasn't used as a blanket term to cover people like Jordan Petersen and Sam Harris. It is thrown around so casually this days that it has almost lost meaning.
    Click to expand...

    Precaution, nothing more

    It’s not right, but it’s the way that it is. I doubt many people are aware that the US donated arms to Al Qaida during the Afgan-Soviet war
     
    its free real estate said:
    I know you invent your own definitions, but that’s not really liberalism.
    Click to expand...

    Yes, it is.

    Liberals are not anarchists. We believe that the State is necessary for the protection of citizens from harm from other citizens. Liberals dont oppose the existence of the State, we see the State as both fundamental and necessary. We are wary of it becoming a tyranny though, so we assess each laws based on a few factors.

    For example, a liberal doesn't oppose criminal codes; we argue that the imposition of a criminal code is both a duty and obligation of the State; to a liberal, Laws are the only reason we even have a State.

    When a new law is proposed, it must do two things to be deemed as liberal. The law must firstly seek to address a potential harm by a person to another persons liberty (Hate crimes and terrorism offences and persecution/ discrimination fit into this category). Secondly, the law must be proportionate to the harm it seeks to address, with appropriate checks and balances in place.

    Liberals have been just fine with the State having the lawful authority to conduct wire taps, property searches, body searches and more (as long as important checks and balances are included, such as the protection of habeus corpus, judicial oversight via warrants, review processes and so forth).

    Monitoring terrorist suspects on the internet is no different.

    Look at this *head for example. Even you have pointed out (rightly) that it was pretty obvious from his posting history, social media presence and so forth that he was radicalising. He had been in contact with other extremist groups and actively sought their 'sanction' for carrying out the attack. From the looks of it he had been talking and communicating online with at least 3 other people (the others charged with the offence) for some time. It was co-ordinated, planned out and discussed online.

    Clearly such powers might very well have stopped this attack in this case.

    Again, as long as the laws are proportionate, and address a real harm, then liberals don't have a problem with them. We don't oppose new laws by the State as a matter of principle; we just ensure those proposed laws meet muster, in that they are both proportionate and address a real harm (are reasonably necessary) and contain appropriate checks and balances to prevent abuse.
     
    David Schwarz said:
    Precaution, nothing more

    It’s not right, but it’s the way that it is. I doubt many people are aware that the US donated arms to Al Qaida during the Afgan-Soviet war
    Click to expand...

    I'd say that is pretty common knowledge mate.

    The world is basically ****ed; and will get worse in the next few years.

    As I said earlier, I think the only antidote is education and affluence; give people something to live for; instead of something to die for... But that will never account for the .01% who are just ****ed in the head.

    And the religious *heads, especially in the poorer and less educated countries don't want their power and wealth eroded; which will happen when their followers realise they're all bullshit artists; or can at least chill the hell out.
     
    King Elvis said:
    Seriously?
    Click to expand...

    Which Western politician is feeding them? Who's voting for them?

    King Elvis said:
    And perhaps the Alt-Right as a threat would be taken more seriously, if it wasn't used as a blanket term to cover people like Jordan Petersen and Sam Harris. It is thrown around so casually this days that it has almost lost meaning.
    Click to expand...

    It is being taken seriously but those who don't see a political advantage out of it.

    Jordan Peterson isn't far right but he's happy to fraternize for the book sales.

    Nobody thinks Sam Harris is far right or even right. He's a more serious and less funny Bill Maher.
     
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Remove this Banner Ad

    Back
    Top