Society/Culture Christchurch Mosque mass shooting

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madmug

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I don't even know what group identity politics is, it's just another right wing grab phrase to me.What's yr point here mate.If you want an eco chamber ,go talk to yr mates.I can't recall using cliches either.My main point is that there is a definate lurch to the right in politics driven by anti -Muslim anti-immigration and using minority groups like Afican Gangs to win votes.You can't argue with that because it's true.Now when these policies are implemented, it can be a catalyst for some nut to use extremist action like in NZ. Things need to be cleaned up ,like internet forums, far right wing media like sky news, herald sun(esp Bolt,Panahi),the Australian ect They are spreading intolerance which can turn to hate.Society deserves better.
You're not actually trying to talk sense or reason with ol' slithering snake oil are ya?

He has no point except RWNJ rubbish. All predicated on xenophobia & intolerance of people who want a peaceful existence.

He'd & a lot of that sort would be better off accepting the power of demographics. Either get some acceptance of reality & tolerance or suffer the brutal future that type are headed for.
 

A Cut Above

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Dude.

I didn't say it was a falsehood. I said it was a social construct.

Do you understand the difference?

I'm not saying it's not a perception you have or that that perception isnt real. Pardon the double negatives.

I'm just saying its constructed via social agreement.

You come from the sun (in the form of carbon, hydrogen and so forth). You come from a hot spring in the Pacific where those elements combined to form life. You come from wherever the mollusc that formed millions of years after came from.

You deciding to draw the line at a bit of the map called 'Europe' a few thousand years ago when that molluscs descendants started talking to each other and using tools, is arbitrary and socially constructed.
Its a very abstract way of looking at things. Perhaps its a shame only a small percentage of the population is capable of embracing this viewpoint. Most are far too grounded in social construct "realities" to be able to step back and see this bigger picture.
 

Cooldude

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Richard Pryor

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What did that milo person say about this that got him banned from coming to Australia I can’t find anything
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/milo-yiannopoulos-banned-from-australia-over-christchurch-comment
"People aren't radicalised by their own side. They get pushed to the far-right by the left, not by others on the right," Yiannopoulos wrote in the post.

"Attacks like this happen because the establishment panders to and mollycoddles extremist leftism and barbaric, alien religious cultures. Not when someone dares to point it out."
For what it's worth I'm pretty sure he was already blocked entry based on his debt and the fact he owed Victoria police $50,000, but the rejection was successfully appealed.
 

Badesumofu

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No it isn’t clear. If race was a social construct it wouldn’t have genetic markers. Except it does
That is an obvious non-sequitur. The existence of heritable genetic markers doesn’t prove biological race and I have no idea why you’d think otherwise.
 

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ep2018

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Wasnt there a black church in the US a year or two ago that was shot up by a white extremist with 30+ fatalities? Where was all the worldwide grief for that? I find it very odd that attacks against Muslims get this much attention where church attacks happen and are glossed over.
 

Cooldude

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https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14

I was wrong. It was the CDC and it put the number at 500,000
You do know how to read, don't you?

Defensive Use of Guns
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual



defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.
Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or injury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry—may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.


Even the study you cited basically said those stats aren't conclusive, yet you still cited it to suit your own view point, interesting

The entire study is basically damning on US's state of fire arm deaths
 
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Richard Pryor

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Wasnt there a black church in the US a year or two ago that was shot up by a white extremist with 30+ fatalities? Where was all the worldwide grief for that? I find it very odd that attacks against Muslims get this much attention where church attacks happen and are glossed over.
I think it received more coverage than you're remembering, however people are sadly more accustomed to mass shootings in the U.S.

IIRC this event has outstripped New Zealand's average annual murder rate in one day.
 

its free real estate

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That is an obvious non-sequitur. The existence of heritable genetic markers doesn’t prove biological race and I have no idea why you’d think otherwise.
If you can pinpoint the “race” a person belongs to using their genes, then it isn’t a social construct is it?
 

FredLeDeux

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You do know how to read, don't you?

Defensive Use of Guns
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual



defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.
Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or injury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry—may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.


Even the study you cited basically said those stats aren't conclusive, yet you still cited it to suit your own view point, interesting

The entire study is basically damning on US's state of fire arm deaths
Beat me to it, Dude.
Cool.
 

Badesumofu

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If you can pinpoint the “race” a person belongs to using their genes, then it isn’t a social construct is it?
Firstly, it’s not actually anywhere near as precise as the word ‘pinpoint’ suggests. Secondly, it doesn’t pinpoint what ‘race’ people belonged to, it estimates what proportion of a persons ancestors lived in what places at what times. You’re the one putting the construction of ‘race’ onto that. It’s got nothing to do with the actual science.
 

Maggie5

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Wasnt there a black church in the US a year or two ago that was shot up by a white extremist with 30+ fatalities? Where was all the worldwide grief for that? I find it very odd that attacks against Muslims get this much attention where church attacks happen and are glossed over.
Think you may have forgotten but in any case given that it happened in NZ a country that doesn't have a reputation for mass murders and that the shooter is an Australian may have hit home to more people than usual?
 

its free real estate

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it estimates what proportion of a persons ancestors lived in what places at what times
So it can tell whether your ancestors transited through the Caribbean on the way to Australia?

Or it can tell that your ancestors were part Sub Saharan African, part English, and they produced children whose descendants ended up in Australia?

Weird that you dismiss the precision of pinpoint yet argue in favour of a vague precision yourself.
 

Present Not Past

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Wasnt there a black church in the US a year or two ago that was shot up by a white extremist with 30+ fatalities? Where was all the worldwide grief for that? I find it very odd that attacks against Muslims get this much attention where church attacks happen and are glossed over.
That's ****** up.
What about Manchester, London and Paris? Or Las Vegas and Florida? And Colombine and need I go on ....
 

Cooldude

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US mass shootings get glossed over easier because of how frequent they are and the US media also tends to move on and trivialise it.

The media in this part of the world however wouldn't let such a ****** up thing go that easily
 
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