Society/Culture Christchurch Mosque mass shooting

[armpit]

First we make of it that Australians can be radicalised one way or another.

It's of concern where and why to us all.

 

[armpit]

This article accurately distils the opinion of the woke left
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...tings-white-australian-guilt-new-zealand.html

I wanted to start flagellating my self after I read that.

 

[its free real estate]

First we make of it that Australians can be radicalised one way or another.

It's of concern where and why to us all.

That is an interesting wrinkle

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque

 

[Maggie5]

Straw man alert.

Once the shock dies down it is back to finger pointing and 'the look over there' by the usual suspects.

 

[smokingjacket]

That is an interesting wrinkle

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque

Buoyed by his new faith, Havard moved to Christchurch in New Zealand, where he joined the local mosque.

Havard told his parents it was during his time at the Christchurch mosque that he first encountered radical Islam.

"When he moved into the mosque he realised what they were trying to convert people to. That's when he left and went to Dunedin. He didn't agree with what they were teaching," they said.

In 2010, his parents received some startling news.

"All of a sudden he rings up and says, 'Oh, I'm thinking about going to Yemen'," Mr Dowrick recalled.

"He was offered to go to Yemen to teach English."

Havard never told his family who paid for his trip.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06...ustralian-death-in-yemen-drone-strike/5497908

Does blowback apply to radical Islamists too?

 

[Maggie5]

They take their cues from PM Scummo.

Did you see the reply to him from The Project? In the Australian Politics Forum.

 

[its free real estate]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06...ustralian-death-in-yemen-drone-strike/5497908

Does blowback apply to radical Islamists too?

No, only white people have agency, unless they revert!

 

[its free real estate]

I see it's free ad-homs has put on his it's free non sequitur hat.

It’s free real estate

 

[CM86]

'Hey guys, we shouldn't let him divide us and confuse us... What he did is on him, and we shouldn't let it become this line of demarcation...'
'Oh wait what... there is a sliver of evidence that he is damaging to the opposite side? Holy s**t, time to open this up to a proper discussion!!'

 

[smokingjacket]

No, only white people have agency, unless they revert!

Mr El Zeiny says the mosque was not a place of radical teaching.

"We are spending most of our time trying to lessen the effect of what the Americans are doing," he said.

He says many Muslims are angry about US drone strikes which target alleged Islamic militants in Yemen but also kill innocent civilians.

"It's a very hard situation but actually the Americans are radicalising people," he said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06...killed-in-yemen-was-radicalised-in-nz/5500604

Nothing to see here folks. The fact that this mosque produced two members of Al-Qaeda was actually the Americans fault because the were killing terrorists with a highly successful drone strike program.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Listening to the NZ Attorney General being interview by Steve Cannane on ABC24.

Not verbatim, but pretty close, no doubt it will be posted up online at some stage to watch.

Q : Have you ever signed any warrants for right wing extremists for terror related activities.

A : I sign all warrants relating to terror and (whatever else it was he said)

Q : Will you say if any of them were for right wing extremists

A : I will say that I have signed a number of warrants for potential terror related activities.

Steve basically says then that people would be frustrated of his unwillingness to answer the question.

The interview moves on.

Said earlier in the interview that they only started having a look into right wing extremists around September last year, so 6 months ago.

I came away from it about 99% confident that he's been signing warrants in relation to Islamic extremism.

Imagine the s**t fight that would create if he were to come out and say it. It would certainly embolden supporters of Tarrant and the likes of Bolt and be vindication for others.

I'd be interested to see if any other journos pick up on what was said in this particular interview and have a run at the NZ AG and get him to answer it properly. With the current level of feelings, would anyone have the courage or even heart to ask?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What a world we live in.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/australia-left-christchurch-massacre/

...White Australians in general are no more responsible for Tarrant’s vile attack than Muslim Australians in general are for Islamic terror attacks in that country....

I do believe that this IS the position of 'the left' - to apportion blame where it belongs and not to demonise a racial or ethno-religious group "in general" for the actions of its fundamentalist extremists. We are AGAINST painting all the same way for the actions of the few.

 

[its free real estate]

I do believe that this IS the position of 'the left' - to apportion blame where it belongs and not to demonise a racial or ethno-religious group "in general" for the actions of its fundamentalist extremists. We are AGAINST painting all the same way for the actions of the few.

It would be good if that was true in practicality but it rarely is, and certainly isn't now.

 

[tandino]

I do believe that this IS the position of 'the left' - to apportion blame where it belongs and not to demonise a racial or ethno-religious group "in general" for the actions of its fundamentalist extremists. We are AGAINST painting all the same way for the actions of the few.

So you would disagree with the assertions made in that article?

 

[its free real estate]

I came away from it about 99% confident that he's been signing warrants in relation to Islamic extremism.

Imagine the s**t fight that would create if he were to come out and say it. It would certainly embolden supporters of Tarrant and the likes of Bolt and be vindication for others.

The number of warrants signed in relation to Islamic terrorism in Australia alone would blow the average person's mind. Not all of them lead to criminal charges, but many of them form the basis of ongoing investigations and monitoring.

It can be interpreted two ways though: the government unfairly discriminates against people of Islamic faith, or there is a problem with Islam.

 

[AM]

Perhaps if Jacinda was the leader of the free world and a country hit by multiple mass scale islamic terrorist attacks her lecturing of Trump could be taken more seriously.

Her handling of this atrocity has been lauded worldwide. Only white supremacists, racists and/or the mentally challenged would say otherwise.

 

[Balls In]

left this, right that , has always been the dumbest thing

was the gunman a lefty or a righty?

This same question has perplexed people about Hitler. A Socialist party founder committed to left wing policies cloaked in hard right nationalism. Likewise old mate mass murderer psychopath has furthered islamic terrorism and far left nutcrackery more than anyone this century.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

So you would disagree with the assertions made in that article?

The americanconservative piece I quoted was responding to this, Rachel Withers' original slate.com article. It states;

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...tings-white-australian-guilt-new-zealand.html

I’m a white Australian. I know that blaming myself and my cohort is illogical, but I can’t escape the feeling that all of white Australia is implicated in the deaths—a white majority that has fomented and let foment hate. Though he may have labeled himself a European, 28-year-old Brenton Tarrant was an Aussie through and through, growing up in a country town north of Sydney, steeped in mainstream Australian racism and our particular national brand of Islamophobia. He grew up in the same Murdoch-controlled mass media environment that the rest of us did—one that recently trashed Islam 2,891 times in a single year—and under the same governments, with prime ministers who have repeatedly stoked anti-Muslim sentiment for votes, with one major party making it central to their electoral strategy.

I grew up steeped in the same environment, just two years younger than Tarrant, and when I was a child the omnipresent racism seemed, well, normal to me. Australia was a proud multicultural country, I was told, but this also seemed to encompass race riots and the turning back of boats filled with brown, black, and Muslim refugees. Publicly demonstrative racists like Australian Sen. Pauline “Please explain” Hanson were a national joke, not a national threat—the refugees were the threat, apparently. These days, as one local from Tarrant’s hometown told the New York Times, “There is still a lot of racism around the place. It’s usually sort of hidden a little bit...”

Now, I don't for a second believe that ALL 'us whiteys' have let hate forment. But it has become more mainstream to lay into other faiths and genders and ethnic groups. For many common decency just aint cool anymore, and neither is respect.

I stand by what I said pages and pages earlier, that tens of thousands might voice racist and/or bigoted opinions over the internet versus the one or two that would actually step up and murder in the name of their beliefs. This holds true, I believe, for any number of beliefs with an extremist (or in the case of religion fundamentalist) fringe.

Later in the article Rachel urges "White Australians must no longer tolerate those mainstream voices who give white supremacy a platform and megaphone. Instead of brushing aside the racism in our homeland, or pointing instead toward Trump and the United States, we must call out dog whistles in our own government, in our own backyard, every chance we get..." and I agree with that.

Why must we humans be so s**t to each other? Blaming the outsider, the scapegoat, the 'other' is far easier to do for some than trying to work out a more inclusive way of dealing with societal problems I guess.

But there's a line in her article that I'm at odds with, and that is one of censorship;

We must condemn hate speech not just when someone like Anning goes “too far,” and we must deny visas to alt-right figures who come to our shores expecting a friendly welcome not just in the wake of right-wing terror attacks, but always.

I don't believe in hiding opinions like this, no matter how distasteful they are to us. We need to examine them and TRULY debate the holders of such opinions. It was not a popular opinion at the time with offline mates but in 2011 I firmly held AGAINST the idea of banning Dutch politician Geert Wilders from visiting Australia. I even made a thread about it here;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...lders-thinking-of-an-australian-visit.867602/

 

[Sainteric]

Her handling of this atrocity has been lauded worldwide. Only white supremacists, racists and/or the mentally challenged would say otherwise.

Turkey and other Muslim countries agree.

Stop it with these absolute statements, she has done well

 

[Sainteric]

The americanconservative piece I quoted was responding to this, Rachel Withers' original slate.com article. It states;



Now, I don't for a second believe that ALL 'us whiteys' have let hate forment. But it has become more mainstream to lay into other faiths and genders and ethnic groups. For many common decency just aint cool anymore, and neither is respect.

I stand by what I said pages and pages earlier, that tens of thousands might voice racist and/or bigoted opinions over the internet versus the one or two that would actually step up and murder in the name of their beliefs. This holds true, I believe, for any number of beliefs with an extremist (or in the case of religion fundamentalist) fringe.

Later in the article Rachel urges "White Australians must no longer tolerate those mainstream voices who give white supremacy a platform and megaphone. Instead of brushing aside the racism in our homeland, or pointing instead toward Trump and the United States, we must call out dog whistles in our own government, in our own backyard, every chance we get..." and I agree with that.

Why must we humans be so s**t to each other? Blaming the outsider, the scapegoat, the 'other' is far easier to do for some than trying to work out a more inclusive way of dealing with societal problems I guess.

But there's a line in her article that I'm at odds with, and that is one of censorship;



I don't believe in hiding opinions like this, no matter how distasteful they are to us. We need to examine them and TRULY debate the holders of such opinions. It was not a popular opinion at the time with offline mates but in 2011 I firmly held AGAINST the idea of banning Dutch politician Geert Wilders from visiting Australia. I even made a thread about it here;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...lders-thinking-of-an-australian-visit.867602/

Rachel has a master's in cultural reporting . Self introspection is not a bad thing but this lefty nonsense is just rubbish. The west/Australia are not too blame for this attack collectively.

 

[AM]

Turkey and other Muslim countries agree.

Stop it with these absolute statements, she has done well

All you need is the red nose and the big floppy boots to complete the picture. In the context of my post I'll place you in the mentally challenged category.

Fred hit the mark with you in an earlier post in this thread.

 

[AM]

Keith Murdoch was a eugenicist.
If only he'd had the courage of his convictions.....

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Now, I don't for a second believe that ALL 'us whiteys' have let hate forment. But it has become more mainstream to lay into other faiths and genders and ethnic groups. For many common decency just aint cool anymore, and neither is respect.

There was no prior time where we all respected each other for our differences. This yearning for a golden age that never existed annoys me.

This is inarguably the most accepting Australia has ever been of a variety of cultures.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

There was no prior time where we all respected each other for our differences. This yearning for a golden age that never existed annoys me.

This is inarguably the most accepting Australia has ever been of a variety of cultures.

Agree, I was born in the late 60s so was growing up in the 70s and 80s, basically if you weren't white or anglo, you were potentially a target.

 

[its free real estate]

I saw this in the comments - WOW

View attachment 637557

This is bullshit BTW:

From the Daily Mail of all places.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...pil-bloodthirsty-killer-revels-brutality.html