Society/Culture Christians are not the victims in the marriage equality debate

[Chief]

More than just the marriage equality debate, there are some good points here around the use of the term "victim".

The powerful recognising that by claiming victimisation they can gain even more power, or hold off attempts to make them share power.

The other tactic of those reluctant to part with power is to devalue the idea that "victims" actually exist. Hence the idea that there is some sort of industry of false victimhood. That the victims are actually very well treated and are trying to get more than their fair share.

We see it in the discussion of feminism ("no gender pay gap; lenient sentencing!"), refugees ("country shoppers!"), indigenous rights and assistance (Hanson's "they get too much money" before she switched to attacking Muslims and going for photo-ops in indigenous communities).



http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/com...marriage-equality-debate-20170413-gvkf6e.html

some who wield power are beginning to seek ways to harvest this source of empowerment for themselves. They seek to proclaim themselves as victims or to label those who challenge them as perpetrators so that they can have access to the power that being a victim provides.

The bullying employee recognised this and sought to take the narrative of being bullied to herself. She wanted access to the power and protection that being the victim can provide.

For several months now, I have been observing this dynamic gathering steam within the marriage equality debate. Last week, Peter Dutton claimed that equality advocates had bullied businesses into supporting marriage equality and some Christians are claiming victim status. Most of these claims are light on when it comes to specifics and seem to reflect the fact that those against marriage equality are feeling vulnerable as they anticipate the certainty of marriage equality coming to Australia.

Not liking something doesn't make one a victim. Neither does another gaining equality with you. Loss of privilege and status and a changing world can make us feel vulnerable, but they do not make us victims. Genuine bullying needs to be called out in the marriage equality debate as in all aspects of our living. To claim the status of victim as a way to hold on to power diminishes the plight of those who are truly suffering and we need to call that out as well.​

 

[M Malice]

no brainer for me, any adult in a consenting relationship should be able to marry, end of story. successive governments have not had the balls to do the right thing, legalize same sex marriage now, why you need a referendum is beyond me.

if individual religious denominations/churches do not want to perform same sex marriage ceremonies that is their prerogative but IMO there will be plenty out there who will.

 

[Gough]

They're not afraid to deceive either to perpetuate their victimhood, looking at Lyle Shelton, and the explosion at the ACL office. AFP, and ACT Old Bill say it's not political motivated at all, Lyle continues to claim that it was politically motivated so he can look hard done by.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Of course they aren't....What Conservative Christians would argue is that morality & decency are the victims.....It's all about value codes & manipulating the Narrative to suit one's end...Duh.

 

[flashmanvc]

All we're being asked is to tolerate their intolerance.

Turning it around has become one of the go to plays for conservatives.

 

[raskolnikov]

How dare we not allow them to be bigoted.

 

[Lebbo73]

How dare we not allow them to be bigoted.

You're just showing how naive you are. Your line of thinking is dangerous. We have expats from Poland and Germany living in Australia warning us how these types of laws eventually lead to the silencing and then eradication of dissenters.

 

[Gough]

Go on...

 

[Gough]

You're just showing how naive you are. Your line of thinking is dangerous. We have expats from Poland and Germany living in Australia warning us how these types of laws eventually lead to the silencing and then eradication of dissenters.

Give me a good reason, one that doesn't rely on a belief in a higher power, why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed in Australia. Your voices aren't being suppressed, they're just being ignored because you prosecute a poor argument. Nobody is denying Christians a voice in the debate, it's just that most have stopped listening to them.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Give me a good reason, one that doesn't rely on a belief in a higher power, why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed in Australia. Your voices aren't being suppressed, they're just being ignored because you prosecute a poor argument. Nobody is denying Christians a voice in the debate, it's just that most have stopped listening to them.

There is no good Christian reason for not allowing gay marriage. Even if someone wants to be against gay marriage, they should oppose it but allow for a parliamentary vote etc because their opinion should not be more heavily weighted than someone else's.

On topic, yeah, Christians are playing the victim. Why wouldn't they, after seeing how powerful it can be when everybody else victimises themselves with intersectionality? Now we have a society where it's a real race to be the biggest victim that you can be.

 

[Lebbo73]

Give me a good reason, one that doesn't rely on a belief in a higher power, why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed in Australia. Your voices aren't being suppressed, they're just being ignored because you prosecute a poor argument. Nobody is denying Christians a voice in the debate, it's just that most have stopped listening to them.

I am not against it anymore. I will vote yes if there is ever a plebiscite. I thought he was talking about 18C. My mistake.
Edit: I still think it is disgusting though.

 

[Power Raid]

We are not asking Christians or any other individual to recognise gay marriage or any other individual marriage.

The request is for government to recognise gay marriage and observe their own sexual discrimination act.

 

[Lethality]

We see it in the discussion of feminism ("no gender pay gap; lenient sentencing!"), refugees ("country shoppers!"), indigenous rights and assistance (Hanson's "they get too much money" before she switched to attacking Muslims and going for photo-ops in indigenous communities).

False victimhood and denying of victim status might be a thing, but that doesn't mean any challenge of victim status is automatically wrong, as this seems to suggest.

Also this article does seem to do its own victim challenging, which seems hypocritical.

There are also plenty of Muslim false victims, but I suppose that doesn't fit the article's politics.

 

[skilts]

Edit: I still think it is disgusting though.

What, exactly, do you find so disgusting?

 

[Lebbo73]

What, exactly, do you find so disgusting?

Each to their own. It is all good brother.

 

[Cooldude]

Discriminate against others, then cry victim when people object to you doing it, the perfect victim bully act

 

[CM86]

What, exactly, do you find so disgusting?

If you find homosexual sex disgusting, you should stop having it!

There is a loooooong list of fetishes that should bother you, ahead of two men or two women having sex...

 

[kirsti]

Jesus had two Dads he turned out ok.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Jesus had two Dads he turned out ok.

And a Mum.....Reverse Mormon?

And according to the Gnostic Gospels....He & Mary Magdalena were getting it on behind the bike sheds.....Blasphemy, I know.

 

[Chief]

All we're being asked is to tolerate their intolerance.

Turning it around has become one of the go to plays for conservatives.

5 minutes after I posted this I was told in another thread that I was a bigot for not accepting someone's ignorant bigoted view.

"Shouted down by SJW snowflakes!" Seems to be the cry of many whose argument is shown to be severely lacking.

As if a post on a forum somehow drowns out their voice as if they were in a hostile crowd on the street.



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[Eastern Rangers]

I don't think there can ever be a neutral position of tolerance, less we confuse apathy towards the actions of others as tolerance and become intolerant of nothing. I feel that tolerance must include some sort of normative moral judgement on what is right and what is wrong of which social norms and conventions are formed, if gay marriage is socially acceptable then it means we're making a positive judgement about the nature of the human condition and the relations in which we share.

Those that oppose gay marriage have to have some primary disagreements about the human condition and/or how societies should be formed to oppose it. The argument from the religious minority, cultural minority status doesn't give groups the right to discriminate because that discrimination runs afoul of the agreed standards of treatment that individuals deserve.

Conservatives reverting to cultural relativism for "respect" and "safe space" is the pinnacle of irony and one that undermines social cohesion.

 

[flashmanvc]

5 minutes after I posted this I was told in another thread that I was a bigot for not accepting someone's ignorant bigoted view.

"Shouted down by SJW snowflakes!" Seems to be the cry of many whose argument is shown to be severely lacking.

As if a post on a forum somehow drowns out their voice as if they were in a hostile crowd on the street.



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Someone on some other thread recently posted that when your privilege is removed, equality feels like discrimination.

As a Hawthorn supporter, this is my current experience. I take back all I've said. Those poor bloody Christians

 

[Xsess]

Infantile progressives assume the moral superiority of their causes, then use as justification for their antisocial behaviours. On both counts its not.

 

[Xsess]

Your voices aren't being suppressed, they're just being ignored because you prosecute a poor argument. Nobody is denying Christians a voice in the debate, it's just that most have stopped listening to them.

The gay lobby is a vicious snarling attack dog who batter any dissenting voices into silence then claim the debate won. However with a vote in the offing suddenly its resolution wavers.. and the rest of us are to believe its fear of a toxic debate?

 

[WCE1987]

The gay lobby is a vicious snarling attack dog who batter any dissenting voices into silence then claim the debate won. However with a vote in the offing suddenly its resolution wavers.. and the rest of us are to believe its fear of a toxic debate?

Just can't trust men that attack a beer company