Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[Wosh]

Drawing on and referencing BFew post in the media thread. Towards the end of 2000 which was after the murders, it appears BRE had been 'visiting' Karrakatta cemetery. That is certainly the suggestion even if these visits weren't entered in to evidence at trial. What do we make of all this and in particular a DNA link to one of the murders?

View attachment 1042356

This will be a must-read.

 

[Likeamystery]

Does anyone recall the approx. date of the Rowe Park pervert? Remember there was an article about a pervert who was seen near where the Rowe Park victim was abducted from. The pervert had been reported, but didn't seem to have been taken seriously. If at all, an item of clothing was left at Rowe Park it was probably picked up, by a member of public and discarded. When we see something on the ground we usually just pick it up and throw it in a bin. There's probably been lots of instances, out in the open, where items of clothing have been thrown away.

Getting back to the kimono. If that was left on purpose, as a signature, that's like saying here's something for you - like a gift for them to keep.
Sick, but might be the case.

 

[Wosh]

This will be a must-read.

^pre ordered on Amazon...can’t wait to read it.

 

[Kurve]

^pre ordered on Amazon...can’t wait to read it.

It's been expanded as well, so it's longer than the publisher's initially requested. There's also a zoom meeting with Bret in February that some of us are checking in to, I'm not sure how they work but imagine there will be a question time so that might be interesting and will probably end up in our thread.

 

[Wosh]

It's been expanded as well, so it's longer than the publisher's initially requested. There's also a zoom meeting with Bret in February that some of us are checking in to, I'm not sure how they work but imagine there will be a question time so that might be interesting and will probably end up in our thread.

I’ve always been invested in the Claremont murders, it was close to home when I lived there at the time and was overjoyed when they finally got the ****. I’m still very much an old school book reader so that’s more my thing than zoom...but I’ll check in to see how it goes

 

[Kurve]

If something had been left at JR or CGs grave site, a family member or friend would have noticed. Perhaps he had visited JRs grave site, with some of her clothing and left it behind. JR was found without clothes.

I was wrong about it being BREs DNA which was found rather something belonging to JR - good pick up Kurve.

I've mentioned beforehand, perhaps the kimono was left on purpose - like a calling card - I don't know the proper word.

For sure, anything that was a bit different at the grave sites would have been noticed straight away. If they didn't have a hidden cam somewhere.

We might be getting close to finding out why investigators suspected the CSK liked to dress in womens clothes. Something to do with what they found or was seen in the cemetery towards the end of 2000? Aside from the DNA link.

 

[Likeamystery]

For sure, anything that was a bit different at the grave sites would have been noticed straight away. If they didn't have a hidden cam somewhere.

We might be getting close to finding out why investigators suspected the CSK liked to dress in womens clothes. Something to do with what they found or was seen in the cemetery towards the end of 2000? Aside from the DNA link.

You're probably right. Makes sense they might have found some women's clothing at KK. Thinking modified clothing in the personal area.
I can just imagine him spending time at the graveyard, all on his lonesome - doing whatever.
Remember the pervert at Rowe Park, in daylight was fondling with himself. So wrapped up in what he was doing to himself, he wasn't aware someone was watching. Because he was reminiscing the fantasy of what he'd done to that poor girl.

 

[Kurve]

I can't think of what else it could be, if it was his DNA found at KK in 2000 l think it would have come up at trial and also linked to the KK rape not just the one murder? I don't know ... whatever it is though it's very creepy. And if he kept going back there when the police were watching, it was part of the game imo. Thought he was smarter than the police.

You're probably right. Makes sense they might have found some women's clothing at KK. Thinking modified clothing in the personal area.
I can just imagine him spending time at the graveyard, all on his lonesome - doing whatever.
Remember the pervert at Rowe Park, in daylight was fondling with himself. So wrapped up in what he was doing to himself, he wasn't aware someone was watching. Because he was reminiscing the fantasy of what he'd done to that poor girl.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[Kurve]

Do you have a link to Rowe Park LAM? I don't remember it.

You're probably right. Makes sense they might have found some women's clothing at KK. Thinking modified clothing in the personal area.
I can just imagine him spending time at the graveyard, all on his lonesome - doing whatever.
Remember the pervert at Rowe Park, in daylight was fondling with himself. So wrapped up in what he was doing to himself, he wasn't aware someone was watching. Because he was reminiscing the fantasy of what he'd done to that poor girl.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[Likeamystery]

Do you have a link to Rowe Park LAM? I don't remember it.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I've managed to find some information...

POST Newspaper for 12th of December, 2015 | Mail (scribd.com)

The witness told the POST this week that in the past year he had twice reported the 1995 Rowe Park pervert incident to police by phone, but had not yet been asked to provide a statement.He saw the man standing near a bush about 15m from Gugeri Street. The place he has identified is immediately behind the path that the 17-year-old girl is thought to have been using when abducted

The witness was able to pin-point from his own records the period in 1995 during which he saw a man publicly masturbating in Claremont's Rowe Park, op-posite the Showground subway.The man was in full view of passing motorists.The witness said that he had left the man alone, thinking he was just a sad, lonely loser.The witness did not know then that just weeks earlier a teen-ager had been abducted from the same place after midnight, blindfolded, tied up and driven to nearby Karrakatta Cemetery, raped and left for dead

 

[Kurve]

The witness was able to pin-point from his own records the period in 1995 during which he saw a man publicly masturbating in Claremont’s Rowe Park, op-posite the Showground subway.The man was in full view of passing motorists.The witness said that he had left the man alone, thinking he was just a sad, lonely loser.The witness did not know then that just weeks earlier a teen-ager had been abducted from the same place after midnight, blindfolded, tied up and driven to nearby Karrakatta Cemetery, raped and left for dead

Hiding in plain sight. The whole time.

 

[Fifty n Closing]

I’ve copied over a post I made on another platform last year but have also just added a couple more things at the end after reading through a few of the recent posts from others on here.


I just hope WAPOL were able to exhaust all possible avenues with Telstra with respect to their Fleet Car Fuel Cards, there was several things mentioned throughout the trial and that basically by the end of 2015 all transactional information such as fuel and repairs against each vehicle was destroyed.


My mum worked for Telecom/Telstra for over 30 years, (in management) as kids during the mid 90’s my sister and I where in our early teens, any form of bank card, fuel card or whatever was a huge novelty and so it was always a bit of a thing between us as to who was quick enough to be able to get this “magical card” out of the glove box in time and be able to run in and pay for the fuel, again on this “magical card” that you just swiped, didn’t have to pay any money over the counter for and away you go. (seems like nothing now but back then it was a huge thing) anyway the point that im getting to is, there was only two fuel stations you could use, BP and Shell, each time you would have to quote the vehicle odometer reading to the operator and when they swiped the car they would often look outside and make sure the rego that the car was electronically issued to was in fact the car that was being filled up, then you would give them the odometer and then they would print the receipt, no doubt something went electronically through the atmosphere to Telstra/Fleetmiss and also you were meant to put the receipt copy in the fuel card wallet in the glove box.


As many can probably start to appreciate this information would be absolutely invaluable in general, each time you filled up it printed off information such as the servo you were at, the time, the rego, the odometer, the fuel quantity amount etc.


This has always made me wonder if this info was available then how much it would allow someone to triangulate BRE movements in general, I’ve got no doubt that it would have shown up some very crazy trends, not forgetting that fuel stations were not located every 5 minutes apart like they are now and also there would have been very very few 24/7 servo’s back then, perhaps just some of the large truck stops etc, and I know I’m prob going off on a tangent here but given the far great info that’s known about BRE now, we might just never no but it does make me somewhat sad to think that in 2015 all of this information was destroyed (so we are told) and we could of be just a fuel receipt worth of info with dates on or about the night of or day after Sarah’s disappearance, not to mention just being able to pick out some irregularities etc and this is just for the purpose of illustration but lets say there was only ever 2-3 fuel receipts from a servo up around Karragullen for argument sake, then s**t like this might seem abnormal, given its remote location and only filling up there twice lets say.


What it also would do is allow investigators to view his trends and patterns in reverse given that we know he did murder Jane and Ciara and also knowing their body locations.


Perhaps still even without Sarah’s body if this information was available it might have shown him filling up regularly in the Claremont/surrounding area’s, combined with linking this further to his ATM withdrawals then who know’s, also keeping in mind this important statement Ms Eldridge made when called as a witness during the trial, during periods of her employment with Telecom/Telstra she was employed in their fleet vehicle management division.


“The vehicle's typical odometer reading increased between late 1995 and 1996”


As most would know the one thing directly proportional to any odometer reading/recording is fuel usage..


I’ve often since wondered what they still have records for because it may further assist in showing some behavioral tendencies of BRE, also I was able to locate in Telstra’s Corporate Report for 2005/2006 that this was when they began installing GPS tracking to their operational fleet vehicles.


One last thing I often wonder about also is whether the likes of Macro was able to scrutinize his internet search history to the nth degree and beyond, specifically with interest to anything associated with Google earth/maps/street view searches and history etc

 

[Krusty Crab]

"... police provisionally linked more than 20 attacks on women in the streets of Claremont, who had been partying locally, to the known crimes of Edwards.

The links were not made until 14 years after Edwards abducted a 17-year-old girl from Claremont in February 1995 and sexually assaulted her in Karrakatta Cemetery"

14 years after? Don't think so.

if you read the quote below with the word 'now' inserted before the word 'known' it makes more sense.

"... police provisionally linked more than 20 attacks on women in the streets of Claremont, who had been partying locally, to the (now) known crimes of Edwards.

when added with the other quote regards 14 years after the KK attack, we come to the following conclusions:

besides the CSK attacks, there was more than 20 other attacks on women in Claremont that could be linked to the CSK victims.
these links were not made until 2009

If I recall 2009 was when the DNA link was found between the KK attack and CG. perhaps these 20+ other crimes were being looked at in a closer fashion than we thought at the time, and they had been linked to KK attack. this is then linked to CG in 2009. (CG is now a known crime of BRE). it doesn't mean they had his name, just that the police apparently believed all these crimes were connected, and the work of one person. some or possibly all of the 20+ other crimes could of been some of the Telstra living witness people, of which only a selection testified in court.

Was this also when the police went to Telstra asking for a list of people that drove certain cars regularly? if so this lends more support to the suggestion that Macro had now linked the KK attack to the CSK, and telstra via the telstra living witness people, which they believed were a product of the same perpetrator.

 

[Krusty Crab]

Drawing on and referencing BFew post in the media thread. Towards the end of 2000 which was after the murders, it appears BRE had been 'visiting' Karrakatta cemetery. That is certainly the suggestion even if these visits weren't entered in to evidence at trial. What do we make of all this and in particular a DNA link to one of the murders?

View attachment 1042356

maybe a thought, but what if BRE went back to raping women in KK? DNA left behind would connect him to those attacks, however maybe the victims didnt want him charged (not all rape victims want to relive the ordeal through a court case) or there are upcoming rape trials that we havent heard about yet? Police would be aware of a repeat offender in this case, and it could be the second marriage is what pulled him away from more attacks at the opportune time.

 

[BonzaRam]

I’ve copied over a post I made on another platform last year but have also just added a couple more things at the end after reading through a few of the recent posts from others on here.


I just hope WAPOL were able to exhaust all possible avenues with Telstra with respect to their Fleet Car Fuel Cards, there was several things mentioned throughout the trial and that basically by the end of 2015 all transactional information such as fuel and repairs against each vehicle was destroyed.


My mum worked for Telecom/Telstra for over 30 years, (in management) as kids during the mid 90’s my sister and I where in our early teens, any form of bank card, fuel card or whatever was a huge novelty and so it was always a bit of a thing between us as to who was quick enough to be able to get this “magical card” out of the glove box in time and be able to run in and pay for the fuel, again on this “magical card” that you just swiped, didn’t have to pay any money over the counter for and away you go. (seems like nothing now but back then it was a huge thing) anyway the point that im getting to is, there was only two fuel stations you could use, BP and Shell, each time you would have to quote the vehicle odometer reading to the operator and when they swiped the car they would often look outside and make sure the rego that the car was electronically issued to was in fact the car that was being filled up, then you would give them the odometer and then they would print the receipt, no doubt something went electronically through the atmosphere to Telstra/Fleetmiss and also you were meant to put the receipt copy in the fuel card wallet in the glove box.


As many can probably start to appreciate this information would be absolutely invaluable in general, each time you filled up it printed off information such as the servo you were at, the time, the rego, the odometer, the fuel quantity amount etc.


This has always made me wonder if this info was available then how much it would allow someone to triangulate BRE movements in general, I’ve got no doubt that it would have shown up some very crazy trends, not forgetting that fuel stations were not located every 5 minutes apart like they are now and also there would have been very very few 24/7 servo’s back then, perhaps just some of the large truck stops etc, and I know I’m prob going off on a tangent here but given the far great info that’s known about BRE now, we might just never no but it does make me somewhat sad to think that in 2015 all of this information was destroyed (so we are told) and we could of be just a fuel receipt worth of info with dates on or about the night of or day after Sarah’s disappearance, not to mention just being able to pick out some irregularities etc and this is just for the purpose of illustration but lets say there was only ever 2-3 fuel receipts from a servo up around Karragullen for argument sake, then sh*t like this might seem abnormal, given its remote location and only filling up there twice lets say.


What it also would do is allow investigators to view his trends and patterns in reverse given that we know he did murder Jane and Ciara and also knowing their body locations.


Perhaps still even without Sarah’s body if this information was available it might have shown him filling up regularly in the Claremont/surrounding area’s, combined with linking this further to his ATM withdrawals then who know’s, also keeping in mind this important statement Ms Eldridge made when called as a witness during the trial, during periods of her employment with Telecom/Telstra she was employed in their fleet vehicle management division.


“The vehicle's typical odometer reading increased between late 1995 and 1996”


As most would know the one thing directly proportional to any odometer reading/recording is fuel usage..


I’ve often since wondered what they still have records for because it may further assist in showing some behavioral tendencies of BRE, also I was able to locate in Telstra’s Corporate Report for 2005/2006 that this was when they began installing GPS tracking to their operational fleet vehicles.


One last thing I often wonder about also is whether the likes of Macro was able to scrutinize his internet search history to the nth degree and beyond, specifically with interest to anything associated with Google earth/maps/street view searches and history etc

Some good points. Just want to add a couple of things after reading that. You are right about servos you could use, I remember a servo in Bibra Lakes industrial area that was unattended where you used a fuel card or atm card at the bowser to pay for the fuel. It wasn't really used by the public but was by fleet vehicles, taxis etc. There were only a handful of these types of servos spread across Perth but i only ever used the Bibra Lakes one myself. Anyways telecom/telstra isn't the only company that would have had a copy of them transactions, so too would the servo companies and FleetCard (if i am remembering the correct name).

As for them being able to collect data from his computer they would have been able to. The tech was around to able to restore harddrives that had accidently, or deliberately, been formatted over. I had save a few peoples entire hards drives myself back then, but, BRE being tech savvy probably knew about that tech and knew how to counter it also, being doing a deep reformat simply by formatting the hard drive roughly 12 times before using it again ( that was how Intelligence and Military ensured the destruction of data back then). i assume they would still have that hard drive somewhere... today's tech is far better.

 

[one eyed spy]

It says the DNA evidence found at Karrakatta in around 2000 created a link to one of the murders. There might be an explanation for this that I just haven't thought of but atm it might look like BRE has returned to the cemetery and left an item of clothing behind that belonged to one the girls and if so it would most likely be Jane. Not that it was BREs DNA they found but Jane's and some time after her murder?

Yeh, I'm with you Shelly & can only think of victims clothing that might link to one of the murders or a swipe of either Ciara's headstone or Jane's plaque, or something else that yielded a profile of BRE's & matched the DNA retrieved from under CG's nails.
Pity it was another 10 yrs before CCTV was put into the cemetery by the cemetery board though as the cops would have had no hope of covering all the entry points &/or parking areas, plus any other potentially relevant areas at the relevant time. They may have captured something inconclusive that drew their attention enough to swab somewhere for DNA & got a hit too, a rubbish bin or something. Who knows?

It's interesting. I don't know what year they actually DNA tested these items, it might seem a bit of a stretch to think the local police would send random items of clothing in to forensics. If it was in the year 2000 I would think any item found must have been connected to a crime at the time or why would they bother? Or it was found and put in a box like the kimono that they dragged out later for testing?

Something in the "lost property" box at the cemetery perhaps? Unknown when or where it was located exactly? I have no idea.

 

[Krusty Crab]

investigators asking whether certain people were known to wear womens clothes - could be that some of the telstra living witness people that didn't testify noticed BRE wearing women's clothes, (this could of been suppressed as it offered nothing to the case) or they were attacked and female underwear was exposed on BRE? or possibly the KK rape victims original statement mentioned the perpetrator wearing female underwear, or possibly there are other victims which either dont want a court case, or a court case is upcoming.

 

[one eyed spy]

Very interesting mentioning all of those sex crimes happening in Claremont prior to KK. I think BRE could possibly be responsible for many, if not most of them. I’m guessing that such crimes aren’t as frequent after the police surveillance of the area subsequent to the crimes that he was found guilty for.

Judging by what BRE has been found guilty of, including HH, he could be a suspect for many various crimes over the last 30+ years. That’s because he did seem to have a variety of MOs, including home invasions and taking women off the street. And HH just demonstrated how bold he could be.

I’m not saying he’s guilty of all of them or even some of them. But he can’t be discounted. His current criminal record confirms he’s a prolific offender. The question still remains just how prolific.

There was definitely more than one sick bastard lurking in the area. A long blonde haired skinny dude & a rapist duo for starters. There was also at least one other guy arrested trying to lure a girl into his car in Mosman Park by cops investigating CSK who was said to be charged on other matters.

 

[one eyed spy]

* A woman raped by 2 men in toilets at Indianna Tea House on Cottesloe beach 12/12/97.
* Woman picked up Beaufort St, knocked unconsious & raped by 2 men in Kings Park 12/10/02.
* Duo picked a woman up in a red commodore in Subi and raped her off Underwood Ave 23/04/06 (identikit).

 

[Kurve]

Did we ever work out why there seemed to be so much focus on whether Ciara wore stockings or not?

 

[Kurve]

View attachment 1042707View attachment 1042708
* A women raped by 2 men in toilets at Indianna Tea House on Cottesloe beach 12/12/97.
* Women picked up Beaufort St, knocked unconsious & raped by 2 men in Kings Park 12/10/02.
* Duo picked a woman up in a red commodore in Subi and raped her off Underwood Ave 23/04/06 (identikit).

Two mugshots top left, they have a similar look.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Two mugshots top left, they have a similar look.

Sure do, look like brothers? And do we all remember the CSK Psychic Taskforce "ID" Sketch? Weird. All these creeps prowling around doing their evil deeds at the same time!

 

[zedx]

Did we ever work out why there seemed to be so much focus on whether Ciara wore stockings or not?

No not as far as I recall, but wasn't a stocking in the mouth part of his MO at times? They must have either found a stocking in or near her to be asking that question?

 

[Wombot]

There was definitely more than one sick bastard lurking in the area. A long blonde haired skinny dude & a rapist duo for starters. There was also at least one other guy arrested trying to lure a girl into his car in Mosman Park by cops investigating CSK who was said to be charged on other matters.

Is it possible BRE could have been part of the duo?

 

[one eyed spy]

Two mugshots top left, they have a similar look.

Yep, eerily familiar even.