Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[Likeamystery]

if you read the quote below with the word 'now' inserted before the word 'known' it makes more sense.

"... police provisionally linked more than 20 attacks on women in the streets of Claremont, who had been partying locally, to the (now) known crimes of Edwards.

when added with the other quote regards 14 years after the KK attack, we come to the following conclusions:

besides the CSK attacks, there was more than 20 other attacks on women in Claremont that could be linked to the CSK victims.
these links were not made until 2009

If I recall 2009 was when the DNA link was found between the KK attack and CG. perhaps these 20+ other crimes were being looked at in a closer fashion than we thought at the time, and they had been linked to KK attack. this is then linked to CG in 2009. (CG is now a known crime of BRE). it doesn't mean they had his name, just that the police apparently believed all these crimes were connected, and the work of one person. some or possibly all of the 20+ other crimes could of been some of the Telstra living witness people, of which only a selection testified in court.

Was this also when the police went to Telstra asking for a list of people that drove certain cars regularly? if so this lends more support to the suggestion that Macro had now linked the KK attack to the CSK, and telstra via the telstra living witness people, which they believed were a product of the same perpetrator.

With regard to Macro's visit to Telstra to obtain a list of driver and vehicles was more like 1997. After CGs murder.
That was mentioned in the court information - please don't ask me for a link, because I simply don't have one.

 

[BonzaRam]

With regard to Macro's visit to Telstra to obtain a list of driver and vehicles was more like 1997. After CGs murder.
That was mentioned in the court information - please don't ask me for a link, because I simply don't have one.

There were two requests for that information made, 1st in 1996 and 2nd in 1998 both requests were for the a time period in 1996, the 2nd being for when SS disappeared. We know from other records he had the Camry when SS disappeared and the Commodore after that. We don't know about any pool vehicles though.

"Ms Eldridge was aware from checking Telstra documentation that in 1996 information regarding Telstra vehicles had been provided on request to the WAPolice. The list of vehicles and driver names does not include the accused or the car then being driven by him. In 1998 there was another request form the WAPolice, for a list of active vehicles as at 23 to 28 January 1996. A list was prepared and provided. However, it did not include vehicles that were no longer registered to Telstra as at the time of the reply in December 1998"

 

[Likeamystery]

Two mugshots top left, they have a similar look.

There's a few identikits of men who could be described as looking middle-eastern. WAPOL may have looked at the brother because they found out where he was during Australia Day 1996. Working for Telstra up north somewhere. That was to prove he didn't have the time to travel back and forth to Perth.

 

[Wombot]

I have reserved a copy of Stalking Claremont with a bookstore. Hopefully it’s in tomorrow. I probably won’t be reading the posts here much until I’ve read it, as I don’t want any spoilers until I’ve come across them through my reading. I’ll probably read it within a couple of days after acquiring it.

 

[Wombot]

Sure do, look like brothers? And do we all remember the CSK Psychic Taskforce "ID" Sketch? Weird. All these creeps prowling around doing their evil deeds at the same time!

If a perpetrator committed multiple murder/ rapes on his own I think it likely that if he was to also do further rapes in the company of another then he is probably the instigator and dominant one in the friendship. Also it’s plausible that he wouldn’t reveal his more serious offences to his partner in crime.

As to the relationship, I think close friend is more likely but not necessarily the only possible connection.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

If a perpetrator committed multiple murder/ rapes on his own I think it likely that if he was to also do further rapes in the company of another then he is probably the instigator and dominant one in the friendship. Also it’s plausible that he wouldn’t reveal his more serious offences to his partner in crime.

As to the relationship, I think close friend is more likely but not necessarily the only possible connection.

Thanks Wombat for those comments. I just thought the facial features looked like a family resemblance, but like you say, could be close friends, OR lovers? That's another dynamic with one being more dominant.

 

[Deva]

Wow, released in Bret's book Detectives believe that BRE visited Ciara's grave site leaving an item of her underwear 3 years after her death. It was found by a family member during a visit. The under wear later DNA linked and her initials on the tag. They believe them to be a spare pair from her missing bag that has never been found.

 

[Kurve]

Ciara's underwear.

The underwear, later DNA-linked to Ms Glennon and bearing her handwritten initials on the tag, was suspected to have been a spare pair inside the lawyer’s missing work bag, which she had with her the night she vanished.

Detectives believe Claremont killer visited victim's grave but avoided CCTV trap, new book reveals

The graveyard visitor left behind an item of the victim's underwear three-and-a-half years after she vanished off the streets of Claremont.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[JWS2019]

Ciara's underwear.

The underwear, later DNA-linked to Ms Glennon and bearing her handwritten initials on the tag, was suspected to have been a spare pair inside the lawyer’s missing work bag, which she had with her the night she vanished.

Detectives believe Claremont killer visited victim's grave but avoided CCTV trap, new book reveals

The graveyard visitor left behind an item of the victim's underwear three-and-a-half years after she vanished off the streets of Claremont.

www.watoday.com.au

I know he is already a sick $&@“ but wow he is really sick...

 

[Kurve]

Avoided cameras /CCTV again, how many times have we seen this? Too many imo to say he was just lucky.

 

[zedx]

Avoided cameras /CCTV again, how many times have we seen this? Too many imo to say he was just lucky.

Agree, how could he possibly keep avoiding camera? What was going on with WALPOL? Some serious questions need to be asked !!

 

[Kurve]

I know he is already a sick $&@“ but wow he is really sick...

That's nearly three years after the last murder he was going back there, it says a lot about his arrogance and contempt.

And that he did have a trophies stash.

 

[sprockets]

I've downloaded the eBook (what a PITA that was...). Lots of plugs for the Post in the preface, hope it's not all like that.

 

[one eyed spy]

Agree, how could he possibly keep avoiding camera? What was going on with WALPOL? Some serious questions need to be asked !!

Zedx, they "had their man" remember. Caporn! The crack detective to the rescue. They will never admit their mistakes! They are & have always been a disgrace. Fear mongering & secrecy is their MO & they havent learnt from it. They're a joke.

 

[Kurve]

That Ciara's underwear was found at her grave in KK, might be why there was some attention paid to whether she was wearing stockings or not? Some of us will wear a pair under because stockings are scratchy and a pair over the top to keep them in place.

 

[Likeamystery]

I’ve copied over a post I made on another platform last year but have also just added a couple more things at the end after reading through a few of the recent posts from others on here.


I just hope WAPOL were able to exhaust all possible avenues with Telstra with respect to their Fleet Car Fuel Cards, there was several things mentioned throughout the trial and that basically by the end of 2015 all transactional information such as fuel and repairs against each vehicle was destroyed.


My mum worked for Telecom/Telstra for over 30 years, (in management) as kids during the mid 90’s my sister and I where in our early teens, any form of bank card, fuel card or whatever was a huge novelty and so it was always a bit of a thing between us as to who was quick enough to be able to get this “magical card” out of the glove box in time and be able to run in and pay for the fuel, again on this “magical card” that you just swiped, didn’t have to pay any money over the counter for and away you go. (seems like nothing now but back then it was a huge thing) anyway the point that im getting to is, there was only two fuel stations you could use, BP and Shell, each time you would have to quote the vehicle odometer reading to the operator and when they swiped the car they would often look outside and make sure the rego that the car was electronically issued to was in fact the car that was being filled up, then you would give them the odometer and then they would print the receipt, no doubt something went electronically through the atmosphere to Telstra/Fleetmiss and also you were meant to put the receipt copy in the fuel card wallet in the glove box.


As many can probably start to appreciate this information would be absolutely invaluable in general, each time you filled up it printed off information such as the servo you were at, the time, the rego, the odometer, the fuel quantity amount etc.


This has always made me wonder if this info was available then how much it would allow someone to triangulate BRE movements in general, I’ve got no doubt that it would have shown up some very crazy trends, not forgetting that fuel stations were not located every 5 minutes apart like they are now and also there would have been very very few 24/7 servo’s back then, perhaps just some of the large truck stops etc, and I know I’m prob going off on a tangent here but given the far great info that’s known about BRE now, we might just never no but it does make me somewhat sad to think that in 2015 all of this information was destroyed (so we are told) and we could of be just a fuel receipt worth of info with dates on or about the night of or day after Sarah’s disappearance, not to mention just being able to pick out some irregularities etc and this is just for the purpose of illustration but lets say there was only ever 2-3 fuel receipts from a servo up around Karragullen for argument sake, then sh*t like this might seem abnormal, given its remote location and only filling up there twice lets say.


What it also would do is allow investigators to view his trends and patterns in reverse given that we know he did murder Jane and Ciara and also knowing their body locations.


Perhaps still even without Sarah’s body if this information was available it might have shown him filling up regularly in the Claremont/surrounding area’s, combined with linking this further to his ATM withdrawals then who know’s, also keeping in mind this important statement Ms Eldridge made when called as a witness during the trial, during periods of her employment with Telecom/Telstra she was employed in their fleet vehicle management division.


“The vehicle's typical odometer reading increased between late 1995 and 1996”


As most would know the one thing directly proportional to any odometer reading/recording is fuel usage..


I’ve often since wondered what they still have records for because it may further assist in showing some behavioral tendencies of BRE, also I was able to locate in Telstra’s Corporate Report for 2005/2006 that this was when they began installing GPS tracking to their operational fleet vehicles.


One last thing I often wonder about also is whether the likes of Macro was able to scrutinize his internet search history to the nth degree and beyond, specifically with interest to anything associated with Google earth/maps/street view searches and history etc

Fifty n closing,

All good points you've raised. I'm aware, after the arrest the Cold Case Squad (CCS) went into Telstra looking at documentation, they spent ages. They would definitely, have had a look at vehicle usage and the fleet fuel purchases, where and when it was purchased. If the fuel receipts had been retained, I'd think the ink probably would have partly deteriorated, though the statements would still be in-tact. Offhand, the vehicle documentation has a life-span of about 7-years, so it was due for destruction about, 2004/2005.

I suppose, one of the first things CCS would have looked at would have been BREs personal file – it’s a legal requirement to retain the file long-term (about 70years). See what he may have possibly been chastised or spoken to about. His PC would have been taken away to look for anything what might possibly have been downloaded or stored. At court the payroll officer produced various extra-entitlements which he'd received at specific times. There would also be job work orders, maintenance logs which might still be available, which would have been examined to substantiate if he was in a specific place, on a certain day and time.

Also, when the CCS were at Telstra they kept going back to speak to someone who worked there. It was someone who had been matey with BRE back in 1996/97. It wasn’t Cooke because he left Telstra way back.

 

[one eyed spy]

That Ciara's underwear was found at her grave in KK, might be why there was some attention paid to whether she was wearing stockings or not? Some of us will wear a pair under because stockings are scratchy and a pair over the top to keep them in place.

I'm not sure how that factors into the equation though regardless?
If they were left at her gravesite they are either a sick joke by someone unrelated who thought it was funny to do & they aren't hers (yes, they exist), or they are hers & the obvious answer to having found them at the grave is the killer left them.
Spare pair, wearing 2 pairs, same diff...no? If the family said they believe they were hers, someone got them from her & left them there after she disappeared. Stockings are irrelevant I'd think unless they had decided that was the only reason she may have had 2 pairs with her? Or, stockings were found as well?

 

[Wosh]

Wooooo, came quickly!

 

[Kurve]

I'm not sure how that factors into the equation though regardless?
If they were left at her gravesite they are either a sick joke by someone unrelated who thought it was funny to do & they aren't hers (yes, they exist), or they are hers & the obvious answer to having found them at the grave is the killer left them.
Spare pair, wearing 2 pairs, same diff...no? If the family said they believe they were hers, someone got them from her & left them there after she disappeared. Stockings are irrelevant I'd think unless they had decided that was the only reason she may have had 2 pairs with her? Or, stockings were found as well?

It was just a question I had going back over the thread there seemed to be no real relevance to them but enough to get attention at trial. What was it all about if none were found?

At the time, I was thinking if it wasn't Jane's clothes found in KK cemetery it might have been Ciara's stockings.

 

[Legolover]

I just saw in the news today how a woman reported in the 80s being masturbated in front of in huntingdale. down near the creek. Is this all old news now or does it have any relevance for further reports of similar incidents in that area?

 

[imho]

Ciara's underwear.

The underwear, later DNA-linked to Ms Glennon and bearing her handwritten initials on the tag, was suspected to have been a spare pair inside the lawyer’s missing work bag, which she had with her the night she vanished.

Detectives believe Claremont killer visited victim's grave but avoided CCTV trap, new book reveals

The graveyard visitor left behind an item of the victim's underwear three-and-a-half years after she vanished off the streets of Claremont.

www.watoday.com.au

i'm confused.
underwear DNA linked to ciara, how and when?
was the underwear linked by ciara's own DNA
at the time of being found at karrakatta?
OR was it linked to ciara by the eventual DNA sample from her fingernail, which was not tested until years later, and later again found to match DNA on the kimono when it resurfaced?

I'm not sure how that factors into the equation though regardless?
If they were left at her gravesite they are either a sick joke by someone unrelated who thought it was funny to do & they aren't hers (yes, they exist), or they are hers & the obvious answer to having found them at the grave is the killer left them.
Spare pair, wearing 2 pairs, same diff...no? If the family said they believe they were hers, someone got them from her & left them there after she disappeared. Stockings are irrelevant I'd think unless they had decided that was the only reason she may have had 2 pairs with her? Or, stockings were found as well?

It was just a question I had going back over the thread there seemed to be no real relevance to them but enough to get attention at trial. What was it all about if none were found?

At the time, I was thinking if it wasn't Jane's clothes found in KK cemetery it might have been Ciara's stockings.

if stockings were found,
they may have been Ciara's.

they may also have been brought and discarded
by the perpetrator who possibly used to bind and gag, or wear over their own head to disguise own facial features.

i find it perplexing that when JR's badly decomposed remains were found, SS was also listed as a recent missing person,
yet police were immediately able to identify the remains as being those of JR ;
how could police be so certain it was not SS?


imho

 

[JWS2019]

Definitely watch this space. A lot more to come I am assuming. I suppose in some respects it was irrelevant to the case as the priority was to prove he was guilty - this stuff wouldn’t have helped this, but now it shows the arrogance and level of offender that was out on the streets.

it seems they were so close but so far -which is interesting. Was he taunting Wapol? Will look forward to reading the book!

 

[JWS2019]

i'm confused.
underwear DNA linked to ciara, how and when?
was the underwear linked by ciara's own DNA
at the time of being found at karrakatta?
OR was it linked to ciara by the eventual DNA sample from her fingernail, which was not tested until years later, and later again found to match DNA on the kimono when it resurfaced?






if stockings were found,
they may have been Ciara's.

they may also have been brought and discarded
by the perpetrator who possibly used to bind and gag, or wear over their own head to disguise own facial features.

i find it perplexing that when JR's badly decomposed remains were found, SS was also listed as a recent missing person,
yet police were immediately able to identify the remains as being those of JR ;
how could police be so certain it was not SS?


imho

Think DNA linked to Ciara (confirming underwear found at gravesite..) must say strange to have her initials on them but in an article I thought it stated that it was her handwriting.
Glad this piece of is off the street albeit too late for so many

 

[Kurve]

Think DNA linked to Ciara (confirming underwear found at gravesite..) must say strange to have her initials on them but in an article I thought it stated that it was her handwriting.

She did a lot of travelling overseas I assume the majority of the time staying in backpackers lodges, it might have been an identifier that helped with the sorting of communal or community laundry?

 

[JWS2019]

She did a lot of travelling overseas I assume the majority of the time staying in backpackers lodges, it might have been an identifier that helped with the sorting of communal or community laundry?

Yes I think your probably right there Kurve that would make sense.