Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

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one eyed spy

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He probably wore the undies on his head - might explain why there was minimal DNA. Once the underwear is worn on the head there would only be contact with the nose. There would be no DNA, unless he sneezed. If there were any hairs from his head, he probably just removed them.
Unless the only contact he had with them was minimal & very carefully with a gloved hand only, trace DNA would almost certainly be transfered to them with the slightest contact either via skin cells, hair, dandruff, sweat, saliva, mucous etc. Whether it enabled a useable profile to be retrieved from them is another thing. Some people just transfer more DNA &/or more readily than others to.

If he did leave them & it was sometime in 2000, I'd question if the timing had to do with his upcoming nuptials in Dec?
Perhaps "hanging up the undies" was his version of "hanging up the boots" or metaphorically "throwing in the towel". ?
 
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Likeamystery

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Unless the only contact he had with them was minimal & very carefully with a gloved hand only, trace DNA would almost certainly be transfered to them with the slightest contact either via skin cells, hair, dandruff, sweat, saliva, mucous etc. Whether it enabled a useable profile to be retrieved from them is another thing. Some people just transfer more DNA &/or more readily than others to.

If he did leave them & it was sometime in 2000, I'd question if the timing had to do with his upcoming nuptials in Dec?
Perhaps "hanging up the undies" was his version of "hanging up the boots" or metaphorically "throwing in the towel". ?
I agree, given the timing, it seems to be a 'throwing in the towel motive'. As BRE and CGE married in Dec 2000, it may have been why that was done.
Perhaps CGE might mention it in her book, along with other places they may have visited in the middle of the night.
 

BFew

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If he did leave them & it was sometime in 2000, I'd question if the timing had to do with his upcoming nuptials in Dec?
Perhaps "hanging up the undies" was his version of "hanging up the boots" or metaphorically "throwing in the towel". ?
The marriage proposal might have gone something a bit like

BRE: (from on more than one knee)
Will you marry me?

BRE VICTIM: You’ll have to get rid of your collection of .... before I do.
 

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Girlnextdoor

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That might be why Macro asked Lance William's brother, does Lance like to dress in women's clothing. BRE may possibly have sent women's clothing to the police, to taunt them.

I'd never really considered an accomplice to the abduction and murders, but someone may have clicked on to something. The other incidents which were thought to be linked prior to the murders didn't mention another person being present. Except the KK rape victim who advised hearing him (I think) either talking to someone else or mumbling to himself. On the night Ciara was abducted one witness mentioned seeing someone waving, which seemed odd. Also, on the night SS disappeared, beforehand someone had been looked at suspiciously near HJs (I can't remember the details). There was also the theory that the large money withdrawals might have been payment for bribery.

One of my family, knows someone who worked for Telstra. Whilst WAPOL were there, after the arrest, they kept on interviewing one of the employees. It was a man who had worked with BRE during the murders. WAPOL kept going back and interviewing him. It wasn't Cook because he'd left by then. There was an identikit of a man which wasn't BRE too.

There's also the thought, of the Madora Bay beach house. The possibility trophies were stashed there, and a family member stumbling across them. As the undies had initials on them, it wouldn't have taken long to figure out who's they were. As BRE liked to discuss the CSK case, I can imagine him possibly discussing what was taken from the victims.

BREs brother didn't go to any of the court days. I'm not suggesting he had anything to do with any of the incidents, just odd he didn't go, just once. Perhaps they had a falling out at one stage.

Addition: Was there mention of Ciara having two lots of male DNA.
"That might be why Macro asked Lance William's brother, does Lance like to dress in women's clothing. BRE may possibly have sent women's clothing to the police, to taunt them."

Totally possible LAM. There's so much we don't know. Just wish a really good investigative journalist would go right into this whole case, as it's a case full of holes, IMHO.
 

Likeamystery

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"That might be why Macro asked Lance William's brother, does Lance like to dress in women's clothing. BRE may possibly have sent women's clothing to the police, to taunt them."

Totally possible LAM. There's so much we don't know. Just wish a really good investigative journalist would go right into this whole case, as it's a case full of holes, IMHO.
Perhaps he sent the police photos. Or was taking underwear from clotheslines in Claremont. I can't think of any other explanation why WAPOL would ask such as question. Can anyone else shed some light on why that question would be asked.
 

zedx

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Perhaps he sent the police photos. Or was taking underwear from clotheslines in Claremont. I can't think of any other explanation why WAPOL would ask such as question. Can anyone else shed some light on why that question would be asked.
I've always wondered the same, although I would have thought WAPOL would have released such information by now !!
 

BonzaRam

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Has anyone heard of any other serial rapists/killers who have worn underwear on their head and face?
I've read where one serial killer would dress in the victim's underwear and took photos.

The underwear seems so completely desperate - like BRE was fulfilling a fantasy - one that he couldn't act out with a girlfriend.

Also, Liz mentioned he seemed to be stroking her like a cat. It's like BRE became disengaged from reality.
I haven't read about any other serial kilers wearing underwear on their heads specifically but there are/were many cross-dressing serial killers, a few that come to mind are :

Colonel Russell Williams
Jerome Brudos
Dennis rader BTK
Hadden Clark

A good source for info on serial killers is what was known as "The Crime Library" .com but it only exists now in web archives.

Now when it comes BRE wearing the panties on his head it would be done in a manner that allowed him to see out of the leg holes in the panties, guess where that puts his nose... just like how the smell of lavender reminds us of grandma...
 

imho

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snipped : when it comes BRE wearing the panties on his head it would be done in a manner that allowed him to see out of the leg holes in the panties, guess where that puts his nose...
no need to guess, ram

snipped : during the reenactment of the intrusion/assault of "Liz", in her new home, the knickers had been worn more over the face, with the gusset covering his nose, allowing the leg-holes to reveal only his eyes as would a balaklava.
imho
 

BFew

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I haven't read about any other serial kilers wearing underwear on their heads specifically but there are/were many cross-dressing serial killers, a few that come to mind are :
How could you forget one of Australia's worst serial Killers

Christopher Bernard Wilder who Andrew Byrne claims in the below podcast (and probably in his book on Wilder), that Wilder had a hiding place in his parents Australian house that he liked to watch his mother undress from, and that he liked to put his mothers clothes on.


There's a fairly new thread created on him in Bigfooty here
 

BFew

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Perhaps he sent the police photos. Or was taking underwear from clotheslines in Claremont. I can't think of any other explanation why WAPOL would ask such as question. Can anyone else shed some light on why that question would be asked.
This was discussed a bit in this same thread a few weeks back from 17 Jan 2021.

I tried to present a possibly alternative theory on this.
Looks like I failed.
 

Willow weeps

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Perhaps he sent the police photos. Or was taking underwear from clotheslines in Claremont. I can't think of any other explanation why WAPOL would ask such as question. Can anyone else shed some light on why that question would be asked.
I'm positive it was in the Stalking Claremont book that underwear was going missing before the murders began. Pretty sure Wygers brought it up at the council meetings regarding crimes in the Claremont area too
 

broken paradigm

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Perhaps he sent the police photos. Or was taking underwear from clotheslines in Claremont. I can't think of any other explanation why WAPOL would ask such as question. Can anyone else shed some light on why that question would be asked.

There was female clothing items found at Jane's site that did not belong to Jane. Maybe the items included adjusted underwear similar to those items found at Edwards' Acton Avenue home when he was arrested in 2016?
 

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broken paradigm

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I'm positive it was in the Stalking Claremont book that underwear was going missing before the murders began. Pretty sure Wygers brought it up at the council meetings regarding crimes in the Claremont area too
The only reference I have read to underwear going missing was from 1988 in Huntingdale. I've not heard of snowdroppers acting out in Claremont although it is possible given that snowdroppers are in most suburbs imo.
 

Likeamystery

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I'm positive it was in the Stalking Claremont book that underwear was going missing before the murders began. Pretty sure Wygers brought it up at the council meetings regarding crimes in the Claremont area too
That was probably how they knew then. The Claremont residents reported missing clothes, to the police, but the matter wasn't reported by the media. Perhaps those locals were told not to speak to the media about the matter.
 

BFew

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I'm positive it was in the Stalking Claremont book that underwear was going missing before the murders began.
I think you are mistaken.
I've done a digital search of the ebook using a variety of word searches that might find reference to underwear going missing in Claremont pre 1996 and can't see anything.

However, I also recall reading or hearing (podcast?) about reports of underwear going missing in Claremont.
If our recollection is correct, whether it was speculation or fact is the question.
 

imho

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I'm positive it was in the Stalking Claremont book that underwear was going missing before the murders began. Pretty sure Wygers brought it up at the council meetings regarding crimes in the Claremont area too
That was probably how they knew then. The Claremont residents reported missing clothes, to the police, but the matter wasn't reported by the media. Perhaps those locals were told not to speak to the media about the matter.
if, as willow suggested, the thefts were before the murders began, i doubt any caution would have been issued to locals in regard to not speaking with the media, because i doubt the media would have had much, if any, interest/care factor in such a matter
... it is only much later, with hindsight, that parallels have been drawn.
in fact, i'd dare go as far as to say the thick-as-two-short-planks cops themselves likely had zero to very little interest/care factor judging by the far too many years it took to resurface the infamous kimono that was abandoned during a home invasion of a sexual nature.
imho
 
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zedx

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I think you are mistaken.
I've done a digital search of the ebook using a variety of word searches that might find reference to underwear going missing in Claremont pre 1996 and can't see anything.

However, I also recall reading or hearing (podcast?) about reports of underwear going missing in Claremont.
If our recollection is correct, whether it was speculation or fact is the question.
IIRC there was mention from somewhere of clothing going missing from clothes lines in the surrounding areas of the cemetery, no specific items mentioned.
 

BFew

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When does everyone think that the West Australian Newspaper will remove it's online front page section headings called
"Claremont Serial Killings"?

I wildly speculate that the only reason it is still there, is that the 'West' has a cunning plan with some input from the Elton clan?


Screen Shot 2021-02-11 at 7.57.10 pm.png
 
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Willow weeps

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I think you are mistaken.
I've done a digital search of the ebook using a variety of word searches that might find reference to underwear going missing in Claremont pre 1996 and can't see anything.

However, I also recall reading or hearing (podcast?) about reports of underwear going missing in Claremont.
If our recollection is correct, whether it was speculation or fact is the question.
Could you please look up Claremont local crime meeting with Wygers & the minutes taken at the meeting? I know there was one meeting that the Mayor was going to that wasn't a council meeting, it was like a local "crime stoppers" meeting that involved the people of Claremont & not an official council meeting
 

BFew

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Could you please look up Claremont local crime meeting with Wygers & the minutes taken at the meeting? I know there was one meeting that the Mayor was going to that wasn't a council meeting, it was like a local "crime stoppers" meeting that involved the people of Claremont & not an official council meeting
Are you sure it wasn't the Councils Night Safety Committee?

In April, five weeks after the attack on the young woman in Church Lane, next to Club Bayview, police inspector Con Calameri had told Claremont’s new Night Safety Committee meeting that Claremont was safe.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 44). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

In May 1996, a bailiff had gatecrashed the Claremont Council chambers, interrupting its Night Safety Committee meeting, which had been convened to address local crime in the wake of Sarah Spiers’ disappearance that January. The committee included district police chief Con Calameri and local police, local residents, business leaders and council rangers, as well as Dr Jon Sainken (the owner of Club Bayview) and Peter Weygers. Its priorities were the installation of more public phones and a secure taxi rank, with a concierge to take the names of young women entering cabs. These were troubled times.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 45). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

Notes and Sources
32. Reported crimes around the time of the Hollywood Hospital assault: In one issue of the Post that year, September 4, 1990, the paper reported five counts of indecent assault on young boys in local parks, and other local crimes including wilful exposure, thefts and burglaries.

(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 386). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)
 

zedx

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Are you sure it wasn't the Councils Night Safety Committee?

In April, five weeks after the attack on the young woman in Church Lane, next to Club Bayview, police inspector Con Calameri had told Claremont’s new Night Safety Committee meeting that Claremont was safe.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 44). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

In May 1996, a bailiff had gatecrashed the Claremont Council chambers, interrupting its Night Safety Committee meeting, which had been convened to address local crime in the wake of Sarah Spiers’ disappearance that January. The committee included district police chief Con Calameri and local police, local residents, business leaders and council rangers, as well as Dr Jon Sainken (the owner of Club Bayview) and Peter Weygers. Its priorities were the installation of more public phones and a secure taxi rank, with a concierge to take the names of young women entering cabs. These were troubled times.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 45). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

Notes and Sources
32. Reported crimes around the time of the Hollywood Hospital assault: In one issue of the Post that year, September 4, 1990, the paper reported five counts of indecent assault on young boys in local parks, and other local crimes including wilful exposure, thefts and burglaries.

(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 386). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)
'......the paper reported five counts of indecent assault on young boys in local parks.....' eeeeekk !!
 

BFew

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In April, five weeks after the attack on the young woman in Church Lane, next to Club Bayview, police inspector Con Calameri had told Claremont’s new Night Safety Committee meeting that Claremont was safe.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 44). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)
So, In early April 1996
(the Church Lane attack was around 2am on 3 March 1996),
Inspector Chile/Artist/Calamari/Squid/Rings or Chips reckoned Claremont was safe.

Was this possibly the same detective who's workmates outsourced door knocking around Rowe Park Claremont in February 1995, to the Jehovah Witnesses?

Some of the script from the earlier days of this case looks like it fell right out of the pages of a Ben Elton dark satirical comedy/book.
 

Kurve

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Many probably won't be surprised to read this and some of you have heard it already, from a very reliable source but as yet unverified. Could this be why his history is being kept quiet?

It goes something like this: BRE did a stint under the care and treatment of a psychiatrist as a sex pest in a facility for juveniles. The clinic is thought to possibly be Hillview in Victoria Park.

Keep in mind, this is unverified.
 

Likeamystery

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Many probably won't be surprised to read this and some of you have heard it already, from a very reliable source but as yet unverified. Could this be why his history is being kept quiet?

It goes something like this: BRE did a stint under the care and treatment of a psychiatrist as a sex pest in a facility for juveniles. The clinic is thought to possibly be Hillview in Victoria Park.

Keep in mind, this is unverified.
That makes sense, because I was told his juvenile record had been opened. That was from a friend of a friend of a friend though.

Within another forum Redact bought to our attention that a child psychiatrist who formerly worked at Hillview Terrace Hospital, had been arrested, for sexual abuse – about 2015/2016. Ian Stuart McAlpine was charged with 40 child sex offences, 24 years after the alleged incidents.

The hospital/clinic operated on the corner of Hillview Tce and Albany Hwy, St James. Children and teenagers were sent there to see psychiatrists, with all sorts of problems, and sometimes stayed overnight. Back in the 1980s Huntingdale would have been within the catchment of that centre.

McAlpine was charged with offences alleged to have occurred between 1985 and 1992 and allegedly involved children aged 11 and 17 years.

The 68-year-old [McAlpine]West Leederville man is alleged to have sexually assaulted three children while practicing as a child psychiatrist at Hillview Terrace Hospital, Cambridge Private Hospital and a practice in Subiaco. [I think the victims were two girls and a boy].

Child sex allegations against ex-psychiatrist | The West Australian
 
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