Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

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Kurve

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That makes sense, because I was told his juvenile record had been opened.
The magistrate at sentencing for the Hollywood Hospital attack when on the job for Telstra at the time, would also have had access to his juvenile records.

That might be why, on seeing those records the magistrate realised that while he was dealing with a charge of common assault, there was more to it and ordered him on to the sex offenders course. BRE already had form.
 

Kurve

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That might be why, on seeing those records the magistrate realised that while he was dealing with a charge of common assault, there was more to it and ordered him on to the sex offenders course. He already had form.
Sorry to quote myself but to follow on from that, we were all asking what it was the magistrate knew that had him doing a sex offenders course and that we couldn't see? He saw his juvenile history and now a sex offenders course would make sense in that light. imo.
 

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Krusty Crab

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As there hasn't been a woman who came forward, to shed some light on the matter, perhaps it's more like a family incident.

He's got a significant sexual problem and I don't suppose family members were spared from any grief.
If the previously discussed rumours are true, im thinking the Gosnells police were possibly more onto the Huntingdale prowler problem than the lack lustre response most people think these crimes got. could there have been more to the prowler series than what we were told, and these crimes were dealt with by the details in the rumour put forward by Kurve? as they were already dealt with and in a sealed juvenile record, would this limit the availability to bring up the info at trial?
 

Kurve

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If the previously discussed rumours are true, im thinking the Gosnells police were possibly more onto the Huntingdale prowler problem than the lack lustre response most people think these crimes got. could there have been more to the prowler series than what we were told, and these crimes were dealt with by the details in the rumour put forward by Kurve? as they were already dealt with and in a sealed juvenile record, would this limit the availability to bring up the info at trial?
I think he was 19yo through the prowler series so out of juvie and into adult offending. Treatment at Hillview if the information is right, ceased at 18yo.
 

Kurve

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thats only the prowling we know about. previous prowling may have been covered off in the juvenile charges.
Yes, maybe although they can't be completely covered off. The cops can access juvenile records but I'm not sure if they would come up on a basic search?

He could have started to escalate and run right off the rails too if and when treatment finished at 18yo. I think eventually we'll find out for sure.
 

BFew

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If the previously discussed rumours are true, im thinking the Gosnells police were possibly more onto the Huntingdale prowler problem than the lack lustre response most people think these crimes got. could there have been more to the prowler series than what we were told, and these crimes were dealt with by the details in the rumour put forward by Kurve? as they were already dealt with and in a sealed juvenile record, would this limit the availability to bring up the info at trial?
BRE was 19yo in 1988 (Huntingdale prowler year) and had already been working at Telstra for nearly 2 years.

Surely BRE's juve record did not get added to after he turned 18 in Dec 1986, and became his Adult criminal record?

Maybe both before and after he turned 18 he committed crimes against minors that were all suppressed because of the minor aspect.
 

javaguice

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thats only the prowling we know about. previous prowling may have been covered off in the juvenile charges.
the bloke was riding round on his bike wanking in front of some of our fellow posters... circa, what? 1986?

He didnt just go from being good, clean, geek lad to b&e, prowling, whatever else...

I reckon he did have history. Which makes me wonder how he didnt pop up on the radar at some stage...

Probably should have been investigated for the huntingdale prowler!
 

javaguice

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I would be fascinated to know what he got in trouble for! Just to see whether the judge for the HH attack stuffed up.... massively.
 

Likeamystery

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the bloke was riding round on his bike wanking in front of some of our fellow posters... circa, what? 1986?

He didnt just go from being good, clean, geek lad to b&e, prowling, whatever else...

I reckon he did have history. Which makes me wonder how he didnt pop up on the radar at some stage...

Probably should have been investigated for the huntingdale prowler!
The Cold Squad Division claimed not to have known anything about the prowling of the Southern River in 1985 - BREs last year of school - year 12. They mentioned that area may have also been frequented by the south side rapist.

They keep information close to their chest, and don't share, and I understand the importance of that.

I've asked this beforehand, but is it possible the CSD weren't privy to any juvenile offending, because it's closed to WAPOL. Is the DPP or a judge the only ones able to access that information.

I'm also interested to know if he's got a juvie record.
 

Kurve

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The Cold Squad Division claimed not to have known anything about the prowling of the Southern River in 1985 - BREs last year of school - year 12.
They keep information close to their chest, and don't share, and I understand the importance of that.

I've asked this beforehand, but is it possible the CSD weren't privy to any juvenile offending, because it's closed to WAPOL. Is the DPP the only ones able to access that information.
The police aren't allowed to tell members of the general public if someone is on their files and what their history is, juvenile or adult.

They can and do access juvenile records, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs properly without that access but imo nobody in WApol would have gone anywhere near opening his LEAP file post arrest because it would have been flagged and they would have to explain what they were doing in there.
 

Likeamystery

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The police aren't allowed to tell members of the general public if someone is on their files and what their history is, juvenile or adult.

They can and do access juvenile records, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs properly without that access but imo nobody in WApol would have gone anywhere near opening his LEAP file post arrest because it would have been flagged and they would have to explain what they were doing in there.
The police aren't allowed to tell members of the general public if someone is on their files and what their history is, juvenile or adult.

They can and do access juvenile records, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs properly without that access but imo nobody in WApol would have gone anywhere near opening his LEAP file post arrest because it would have been flagged and they would have to explain what they were doing in there.
There's been no mention of BRE having an extended period of time off school. In 1985, when BRE left school in year 12 he probably finished about Oct, Nov or Dec. He started Telecom in early 1986. So, if he was charged with anything he didn't seem to have spent any time staying anywhere like Longmore. Perhaps it's more like he received some type of a caution, thinking more like a probation, suspended sentence or the like. That's if there was any charge of some sort. Any time spent at Hillview may have formed part of that probation, thinking a weekly visit to a psychiatrist. As he was intended to start work at Telecom, a judge probably look that into consideration. It's been mentioned BRE initially worked in Bentley, so Hillview Hospital was in St James, which is the next suburb. He had plenty of time to attend psychiatrist appointments.

He would have turned 18 in Dec 1986.
 

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Likeamystery

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Shells what's the inside goss?

For all we know at the moment it wouldn't surprise me if he showed signs at a young age.... perhaps he got into trouble for something when he was 12 ish...
Apparently the family lived in a caravan for quite some time - I think it was years. Perhaps as a young age BRE collected or borrowed clothing from campers. The clothing would have been readily available on the community clothesline. Someone mentioned that beforehand, and might be how the snow-dropping began.
 

Willow weeps

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Are you sure it wasn't the Councils Night Safety Committee?

In April, five weeks after the attack on the young woman in Church Lane, next to Club Bayview, police inspector Con Calameri had told Claremont’s new Night Safety Committee meeting that Claremont was safe.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 44). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

In May 1996, a bailiff had gatecrashed the Claremont Council chambers, interrupting its Night Safety Committee meeting, which had been convened to address local crime in the wake of Sarah Spiers’ disappearance that January. The committee included district police chief Con Calameri and local police, local residents, business leaders and council rangers, as well as Dr Jon Sainken (the owner of Club Bayview) and Peter Weygers. Its priorities were the installation of more public phones and a secure taxi rank, with a concierge to take the names of young women entering cabs. These were troubled times.
(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 45). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)

Notes and Sources
32. Reported crimes around the time of the Hollywood Hospital assault: In one issue of the Post that year, September 4, 1990, the paper reported five counts of indecent assault on young boys in local parks, and other local crimes including wilful exposure, thefts and burglaries.

(Christian, Bret. Stalking Claremont (p. 386). ABC Books. Kindle Edition.)
That's the one, thank you
 

Girlnextdoor

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Apparently the family lived in a caravan for quite some time - I think it was years. Perhaps as a young age BRE collected or borrowed clothing from campers. The clothing would have been readily available on the community clothesline. Someone mentioned that beforehand, and might be how the snow-dropping began.
Good thinking LAM! I think he started very young with his "odd" behaviour. He probably had his secret stash of undies discovered (hard to hide things when you're sharing a caravan with your parents and your nosey bro) and maybe Dad tried to "sort him out" with a "belting" (so called no doubt because Dads often used their trouser belts)😱

BRE said he was closest to his mother didn't he? Dad probably scared the hell out of him and he gravitated to the softer, nurturing female and the exact opposite of what his father perhaps represented to him? Could he have witnessed domestic violence? Might not have been in his caravan, spying on others, peeping in windows when he was wandering around the caravan sites?

All just guessing of course, but little Brad would be a very troubled boy, I think. Add in teasing which he said he encountered a lot at school, and you could have anger and frustration bubbling away from pre-teen years. Then hormones kick in and rage and fantasies begin which get more sinister and disgusting as life and "love" continually disappoint him.

A Psychiatrists Convention required to try and sort out his thoughts and actions!
 

Likeamystery

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Good thinking LAM! I think he started very young with his "odd" behaviour. He probably had his secret stash of undies discovered (hard to hide things when you're sharing a caravan with your parents and your nosey bro) and maybe Dad tried to "sort him out" with a "belting" (so called no doubt because Dads often used their trouser belts)😱

BRE said he was closest to his mother didn't he? Dad probably scared the hell out of him and he gravitated to the softer, nurturing female and the exact opposite of what his father perhaps represented to him? Could he have witnessed domestic violence? Might not have been in his caravan, spying on others, peeping in windows when he was wandering around the caravan sites?

All just guessing of course, but little Brad would be a very troubled boy, I think. Add in teasing which he said he encountered a lot at school, and you could have anger and frustration bubbling away from pre-teen years. Then hormones kick in and rage and fantasies begin which get more sinister and disgusting as life and "love" continually disappoint him.

A Psychiatrists Convention required to try and sort out his thoughts and actions!
Hi GND, I've only just noticed your post.

There was mention that BREs parents managed a caravan park at Margaret River. As caravan parks don't have fences, it would have been easy to peep into windows, all that's needed is a chair! Throughout the time, he may have seen a great deal, which he shouldn't have, and if that's the case, curiosity probably got the better of him. It might be the adventurous young Brad was exposed to some adultlike stuff. Also, there's the spare caravans to stash bits and pieces. If BRE didn't have any hobbies or was bored, peeping may have become his hobby or what he did in his spare time.

What comes to mind is U.Ks Mary Bell, who was a ten-year-old murderer back in the late 1960s. Mary's mother was a sex worker, and unfortunately, Mary witnessed all sorts of adult play, like erotic asphyxiation. As a child, Mary had unknowingly learned how to asphyxiate someone, and went on to do the same thing to young children who of course Mary killed.

Mary Bell: The Ten-Year-Old Murderer Who Terrorized Newcastle In 1968 (allthatsinteresting.com)
 

BFew

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Was the Huntingdale prowler ever linked to the Claremont killings in the media prior to the arrest.
I don't recall every seeing or hearing about any evidence that either the Huntingdale prowler, the Southside rapist, or any of the other various names used by the media, associated with events around Huntingdale and surrounds in the later 1980's, was ever mentioned on either main stream media, or in public on social media or online forums like this one.

Maybe it was mentioned by someone somewhere in public on social media or a forum and subsequently removed by either whoever wrote about it, or a moderator.

Back in 1996/97, apart from some fringe bulletin boards and IRC (text based online chat), there was basically no social media or online forums, youtube or online main stream media readers comments.

I speculate, that if back in the later 90's and early 2000's there had been anything near the level of public social media or online forums,
and if there were archives of all the later 80's main stream media and community newspaper articles available (as of the later 90's),
that cold cases like the Huntingdale and surrounds ones, would almost certainly have been raised by online crime sleuths let alone others with knowledge of these events from having been victims or knowing victims (Huntingdale/Southside related), as worth looking into further in relation to both Rowe Park/Karrakatta and the disappearance/murders of Sarah, Jane and Ciara.
 

Fifty n Closing

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Good thinking LAM! I think he started very young with his "odd" behaviour. He probably had his secret stash of undies discovered (hard to hide things when you're sharing a caravan with your parents and your nosey bro) and maybe Dad tried to "sort him out" with a "belting" (so called no doubt because Dads often used their trouser belts)😱

BRE said he was closest to his mother didn't he? Dad probably scared the hell out of him and he gravitated to the softer, nurturing female and the exact opposite of what his father perhaps represented to him? Could he have witnessed domestic violence? Might not have been in his caravan, spying on others, peeping in windows when he was wandering around the caravan sites?

All just guessing of course, but little Brad would be a very troubled boy, I think. Add in teasing which he said he encountered a lot at school, and you could have anger and frustration bubbling away from pre-teen years. Then hormones kick in and rage and fantasies begin which get more sinister and disgusting as life and "love" continually disappoint him.

A Psychiatrists Convention required to try and sort out his thoughts and actions!
I think there is a huge amount of merit and context with what you have mentioned here for sure! Because in alignment to what you've already written the other thing that comes to mind is the typically type of communal showers/toilets from during that era, and I think regardless of the fact that the male and female ablution blocks with caravan parks where still separate the fact still stands thats a young/or old BRE for that matter, certainly didn't need an invitation to these sort of activities of which would have been all within the standard day for any typical patron(s) that were staying there at the time.
 

Likeamystery

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I think there is a huge amount of merit and context with what you have mentioned here for sure! Because in alignment to what you've already written the other thing that comes to mind is the typically type of communal showers/toilets from during that era, and I think regardless of the fact that the male and female ablution blocks with caravan parks where still separate the fact still stands thats a young/or old BRE for that matter, certainly didn't need an invitation to these sort of activities of which would have been all within the standard day for any typical patron(s) that were staying there at the time.
There's also the possibility that couples spent their honeymoon at the caravan park. He probably had a lot of places to hang out at the caravan park, knowing where the keys are kept etc.
 

Wombot

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Many probably won't be surprised to read this and some of you have heard it already, from a very reliable source but as yet unverified. Could this be why his history is being kept quiet?

It goes something like this: BRE did a stint under the care and treatment of a psychiatrist as a sex pest in a facility for juveniles. The clinic is thought to possibly be Hillview in Victoria Park.

Keep in mind, this is unverified.
If so, I’m guessing that his family might have suspected him in regards to the Huntingdale Prowler.

I presume that he changed his field of operations after Huntingdale out of sheer necessity. Maybe that is also the time that he got his own car. He may have settled in Claremont eventually, but I wonder if he went elsewhere in between his Huntingdale attacks and Claremont? I mean before his relationship to his first wife and possibly even in the first few years of that relationship.

He could be considered for many crimes in the Perth metro area during that period. I never really had any reason to suspect him for JC, but now I think it is possible.

The Huntingdale Prowler incidents were early 1988. JC’s disappearance was mid-1988.

Also I think it very possible, even likely, that he offended post the CSK killings.
 

Girlnextdoor

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I think there is a huge amount of merit and context with what you have mentioned here for sure! Because in alignment to what you've already written the other thing that comes to mind is the typically type of communal showers/toilets from during that era, and I think regardless of the fact that the male and female ablution blocks with caravan parks where still separate the fact still stands thats a young/or old BRE for that matter, certainly didn't need an invitation to these sort of activities of which would have been all within the standard day for any typical patron(s) that were staying there at the time.
Thanks "Fifty" for your positive feedback and I agree about the communal showers. Horrible to think about isn't it, people perhaps being spied on and never knowing?

I think BRE might have spied on men and women. His girlfriends said he had an unusually "thin" penis. Was BRE seeing boys his age, or even younger and feeling totally "abnormal" because he was so "different"? 🤔
 

Likeamystery

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If so, I’m guessing that his family might have suspected him in regards to the Huntingdale Prowler.

I presume that he changed his field of operations after Huntingdale out of sheer necessity. Maybe that is also the time that he got his own car. He may have settled in Claremont eventually, but I wonder if he went elsewhere in between his Huntingdale attacks and Claremont? I mean before his relationship to his first wife and possibly even in the first few years of that relationship.

He could be considered for many crimes in the Perth metro area during that period. I never really had any reason to suspect him for JC, but now I think it is possible.

The Huntingdale Prowler incidents were early 1988. JC’s disappearance was mid-1988.

Also I think it very possible, even likely, that he offended post the CSK killings.
With regard to where he might have spent time prowling. I think convenience was a huge factor. Anywhere where women would frequent, where it's somewhat isolated. My thoughts are he took the opportunity after he'd finished the day at either high school, Technical college or work. Taking to school or work a change of clothes, rather than going home and having to answer to mum when she'd probably ask where he was going. He was due to get his license in Dec 1985, so was able to venture further. Wasn't permitted into hotels until Dec 1986 when he'd turned 18. The timeline might look something like this:

1985 prowling at the Southern River near the high school after school - we know he did that.
1986 started working for Telecom and spent time at Ley St, Como for training (think 6 weeks). He had his driver's licence by then.
1986 worked at Ewing St Bentley. Near the Bentley Business Centre shopping centre formerly known as La Plaza, and there's neighboring suburb Victoria Park, where units are occupied by single women - open clothesline availability.
1986 Northbridge and Perth nightclubs and Burswood's casino was new then.

The Claremont Park on the SE corner of Bay View Tce and Stirling Hwy would have been a suitable place to wait for prowling. It's similar to the Southern River, where it's isolated, and the Swan River a short distance to the south.
 

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