Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

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Gpop

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Is anyone able to post the article from today's West,. " Neerabup human remains: Clothing found as homicide detectives search missing person reports" or even let us know the gist of the article? I'm unable to find anything else about this anywhere 😒 Thanks!
 

BFew

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Is anyone able to post the article from today's West,. " Neerabup human remains: Clothing found as homicide detectives search missing person reports" or even let us know the gist of the article? I'm unable to find anything else about this anywhere 😒 Thanks!
'Clothing was found with human bones discovered north of Perth with homicide detectives trawling through missing person reports to help identify who the remains belong to.
Police are yet to release any significant detail about the skeletal remains uncovered in bushland in Neerabup several days ago.
But The West Australian understands police are now looking carefully through missing person reports as part of their investigation .
Police have not yet confirmed or established whether the remains relate to a suspected homicide. It is standard practice for homicide squad officers to investigate all unidentified human remains.
It’s understood the remains were set to undergo DNA tests and a post mortem today.
The West Australian has also confirmed some clothing was found with the remains. This could also give investigators vital DNA and information as to who the remains belong to.
Police are yet to confirm if the remains are that of a man or a woman.
It still remains unclear exactly when the remains were discovered.
But police were spotted at the bush site on Sunday — near Wanneroo and Carramar Roads — after a bushwalker reportedly made the grim find.
Up until Tuesday the area was still cordoned off as forensic officers could been seen collecting evidence.
Although the remains are yet to be confirmed to be that of a missing person, there are currently close to 100 West Australian’s listed as missing on the National Missing Persons Coordination Centre website.
Many of the 98 cases are considered suspicious disappearances.
Some of the cases date back to the 1950s.
An estimated 38,000 missing persons reports are lodged with police each year around Australia.
Over 98 per cent of people reported missing are found.'
 

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Mudman85

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Yes I think he was…….did he act alone?I don’t know but he appears to be an antisocial person who big notes himself and has no qualms about evil he has inflicted.


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Him being known to frequent the location where she was last seen. (Dealing drugs in the carpark there) Him using a phone box in the street she lived and then his dna being found on a cigarette butt in close proximity to the house around the time she went missing is a lot of coincidences. Then add in the comment about a body in kings park.
 

Mudman85

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'Clothing was found with human bones discovered north of Perth with homicide detectives trawling through missing person reports to help identify who the remains belong to.
Police are yet to release any significant detail about the skeletal remains uncovered in bushland in Neerabup several days ago.
But The West Australian understands police are now looking carefully through missing person reports as part of their investigation .
Police have not yet confirmed or established whether the remains relate to a suspected homicide. It is standard practice for homicide squad officers to investigate all unidentified human remains.
It’s understood the remains were set to undergo DNA tests and a post mortem today.
The West Australian has also confirmed some clothing was found with the remains. This could also give investigators vital DNA and information as to who the remains belong to.
Police are yet to confirm if the remains are that of a man or a woman.
It still remains unclear exactly when the remains were discovered.
But police were spotted at the bush site on Sunday — near Wanneroo and Carramar Roads — after a bushwalker reportedly made the grim find.
Up until Tuesday the area was still cordoned off as forensic officers could been seen collecting evidence.
Although the remains are yet to be confirmed to be that of a missing person, there are currently close to 100 West Australian’s listed as missing on the National Missing Persons Coordination Centre website.
Many of the 98 cases are considered suspicious disappearances.
Some of the cases date back to the 1950s.
An estimated 38,000 missing persons reports are lodged with police each year around Australia.
Over 98 per cent of people reported missing are found.'
Post Mortem to me implies there is still a body and not just bones?
 

the dark knight

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I hope I’m wrong (I want nothing more then closer for the family). But I don’t reckon it’ll be SS. I say that as surely if it was SS, most of the clothing would of decomposed too. Although Harvey Jones (bloke found in the beach at Botany Bay years after his murder) still had his jacket and shoes on. Apparently they could still do the zip up on the jacket. Likelihood tho of being SS is slim sadly. Again, I hope I’m completely wrong.
 

mrskafoops

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I hope I’m wrong (I want nothing more then closer for the family). But I don’t reckon it’ll be SS. I say that as surely if it was SS, most of the clothing would of decomposed too. Although Harvey Jones (bloke found in the beach at Botany Bay years after his murder) still had his jacket and shoes on. Apparently they could still do the zip up on the jacket. Likelihood tho of being SS is slim sadly. Again, I hope I’m completely wrong.
I agree
 

mrskafoops

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Him being known to frequent the location where she was last seen. (Dealing drugs in the carpark there) Him using a phone box in the street she lived and then his dna being found on a cigarette butt in close proximity to the house around the time she went missing is a lot of coincidences. Then add in the comment about a body in kings park.
With all of this surely the police would find enough to charge him if he’d done it? Maybe he is just all talk (about the killing people)?
 

Redacted

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Redacted

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Ughhh...that makes my stomach turn over. Hard to not consider his motivation for that, albeit ever so briefly. Redacted do you know how far he got with it?
According to his Facebook page, he "dropped out" of teacher's college...

His Facebook hadn't been updated. I believe that he moved to Geelong some time ago and changed his name...



Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk
 
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Krusty Crab

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Sorry about that, but I wouldn't call what I have discovered as 'assumptions', everything is based on fact.

I thought that everyone on here knew address etc. I personally think he was working to a divorce timetable from 1995, but he has always had a modus operandi that is very interesting. And he never stopped!

The degree from his parents 144 Gay residence to the final site he chose for Ciara is at 334 compass bearing, therefore from Ciara to his 144 Gay it is 154. 334 is connected to the birthdate of his paternal grandmother, 154 is connected to the birthdate of his father.

In the 1988 leap year the same compass bearings were used but and extra 'day' or 'degree' added in the case of 'Dorothy'. the abduction site to Centenary Bridge is 155 and Centenary to the abduction site is 335.

The site in Monument Street where it is believed he chose to murder Sarah is at 211 from the abduction scene, or 31 from Monument to the abduction scene. Once again, but with a twist, 211 is connected to his father's birthdate, and 31 to his paternal grandmother's birthdate. they are both the remaining days in the year after each of their birthdates.

in 1995 the compass bearing from Karrakatta Cemetery to the Rowe Park abduction scene was 254. His parents birthdates are 254 days apart, commencing with his father's birthdate.

The abduction scene for Sarah was at 254 compass bearing to the OBH.

The 1995 abduction occurred 254 days after his father's 1994 birthday.

The Monument Street, Mosman Park murder scene is at 227 compass bearing from the 1995 Karrakatta Cemetery rape scene. The attack at Hollywood Hospital occurred 227 days after his mother's birthday. Monument Street scene is at 47 compass bearing to Karrakatta Cemetery. the annual birthdates of Julie and Sarah were 47 days apart (starting with Julie). David Birnie's birthday 16/2 happens to fall on the 47th day.

In a leap year the birthdates of David and Catherine Birnie are 97 days apart (starting with his) - see below. His birthday falls 157 days after Sarah's birthday on 12/9. If you add 97 to 157 (to get to Catherine's birthday) the sum is 254, simply Catherine's leap year birthdate is 254 days from Sarah's birthdate.

Given Julie disappeared the year after the Birnie's conviction it is interesting. Birnie was convicted (after a guilty plea) on 10/2/1987 and this was 167 days before Julie's birthday. Jane was placed at 167 degrees from the Claremont abduction site.


The 1988 Centenary Bridge site is at 277 degrees to the personal items site discovered in 1997 and now believed to be connected to Julie Cutler. The Monument Street site he chose at which to murder Sarah is at 277 degrees to Julie's personal items discovery site at cnr of Beach and Marine in Cottesloe. Therefore the Dorothy Centenary Bridge final scene is at 277 to Sarah and Sarah at 277 to Julie's items. In reverse it is 97. He stalked Claremont for Ciara on 14/3/1997 which was 97 days after his birthday and 83 days after his 1st wife's child was born in 1996. 83 - 360 = 277. His paternal grandfather's birthday falls on the 277th day in a non leap year (which 1997 was). Julie's items were dumped in the sand dune in 1997 - no doubt about that.
personally i dont buy into the above theory of compass points and dates meaning anything. im sure if you looked hard enough you could make any number have some sort of significance. also if he picked all these compass points and dates relative to the murders, then all of this would of needed to be planned prior, and would beggar the question of why? this level of pre-planning takes away the spur of the moment and emotional reasons for the crime, so what would be the motivation?

to follow on from this, if he pre-planned the attacks, what made him pick the pick the first location to then find a point with a contrived relationship for the next location? if it wasnt pre-planned and he did act on the spur of the moment as such, do you think he plotted the abduction location on a map, worked out compass co-ordinates to somewhere else, then looked for a number in his life somewhere else, then used that number to formulate a new compass line, plotted that on a map and then went to that location, all while he had an abducted person/body in the car?
 

broken paradigm

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personally i dont buy into the above theory of compass points and dates meaning anything. im sure if you looked hard enough you could make any number have some sort of significance. also if he picked all these compass points and dates relative to the murders, then all of this would of needed to be planned prior, and would beggar the question of why? this level of pre-planning takes away the spur of the moment and emotional reasons for the crime, so what would be the motivation?

to follow on from this, if he pre-planned the attacks, what made him pick the pick the first location to then find a point with a contrived relationship for the next location? if it wasnt pre-planned and he did act on the spur of the moment as such, do you think he plotted the abduction location on a map, worked out compass co-ordinates to somewhere else, then looked for a number in his life somewhere else, then used that number to formulate a new compass line, plotted that on a map and then went to that location, all while he had an abducted person/body in the car?
Totally pre-planned. Remember his opening line in one of his stories " They say you always remember your first. In my case, I consider my first is Chloe”.

His choice of compass headings in 1988 'tell his story'; that is compass headings used during his days hunting in Huntingdale as well. When you know what his compass headings are based on, it gives you an insight into his mind. It is possible to crack his code.

I have a very strong gut feeling 'his first' refers to was a woman who used Chloe perfume (by Karl Lagerfield C1975) and I believe (strongly) his first attempt at murder was 'Dorothy' in 1988.

You would have to do more than look hard enough to find a killer that has stuck to his compass degree pattern like BRE did.

His compass headings are like linking his victims together with invisible rope.
 
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broken paradigm

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One thing BRE did deliberately, was to pick up young ladies and drop them safely at their intended and requested destination. A ploy to develop trust imo. We now know (for the 1st time after the Trial concluded) that Jane had met BRE prior to the night of her abduction and murder and she told her friend and former employer based in Esperance he was "bogsy". I have a strong gut feeling that both Sarah and Ciara and met him prior to their abductions and murders. People tend to forget that Ciara did not leave Perth for her o/s sabatical until after Sarah's abduction and murder.
 

GreyCrow

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One thing BRE did deliberately, was to pick up young ladies
Correct

and drop them safely at their intended and requested destination. A ploy to develop trust imo.
Supposition - how many women get lifts home and have the driver grab their arm as they get out and ask for 'payment' This wasnt building trust

We now know (for the 1st time after the Trial concluded) that Jane had met BRE prior to the night of her abduction and murder and she told her friend and former employer based in Esperance he was "bogsy".
It has not been proven. Media rubbish



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Krusty Crab

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Totally pre-planned. Remember his opening line in one of his stories " They say you always remember your first. In my case, I consider my first is Chloe”.

His choice of compass headings in 1988 'tell his story'; that is compass headings used during his days hunting in Huntingdale as well. When you know what his compass headings are based on, it gives you an insight into his mind. It is possible to crack his code.

I have a very strong gut feeling 'his first' refers to was a woman who used Chloe perfume (by Karl Lagerfield C1975) and I believe (strongly) his first attempt at murder was 'Dorothy' in 1988.

You would have to do more than look hard enough to find a killer that has stuck to his compass degree pattern like BRE did.

His compass headings are like linking his victims together with invisible rope.
was the Chloe story ever confirmed as being actually his? if i recall it was on his computer and showed it had been edited, which doesnt mean it wasnt downloaded and originally written by someone else. also the opening line in the story uses the term remember, which gives the reader the insight that the happenings in the story were from the past. so if the Chloe story was his and it is based on truth, then the story relates things from the past, this hardly proves anything was pre-planned.

have you found anything in BRE past to suggest a strong emotional tie to the Chloe perfume? as a middle aged male i would be lucky to name more than 2 perfumes, which were purchased as presents for my partner, and even then i had to describe to bottle to the sales assistant to work out which ones they were. in a similar fashion i dont see a young BRE being that fixated on his victim to know her perfume, and then use that as an alias in a story he wrote about the incident. my thinking is that it is more likely Chloe is either the name of his first girl friend or a girl he lusted over, or even possibly the street name for a prostitute he had seen, and the subject matter in the story is a fantasy he had for that person.
 

Kurve

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What are everyones thoughts on whether BRE is a psychopath? People like John Travers and John Glover are for sure but I think BRE is more a sociopath?
He has the control of a psychopath I think, he fooled a lot of people and blended a bit too well in to suburban life. Possibly so cold that wife 2 was selected as the perfect cover.
 

BonzaRam

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What are everyones thoughts on whether BRE is a psychopath? People like John Travers and John Glover are for sure but I think BRE is more a sociopath?
That article is lacking in it's definitions of psychopathy and sociopathy, these articles expand on it a bit better.



The total lack of remorse and show of indifference to what was going on around him during the trial gives me reason to point towards psychopath.
 
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I probably lean more towards him being a psychopath but that said he sure does possess many traits of both, one thing I’m categorically certain of though in my own mind is that even right now sitting in Hotel Casuarina he’s absolutely perplexed and baffled as to why he’s there because in his mind he’s convinced that he’s never had anything to do with the disappearances and murders of SS, JR, CG.

One thing with BRE that I still find absolutely incredible and remarkable actually was his police interview, through some of my work channels over the years I’ve been involved with difference circumstances and individuals in a similar nature (not murder) but accident investigations and the like, and you do become in tune with different traits and demeanor's of people when its being done intentionally and unintentionally.

Make no mistake no matter how long people think or don’t think he’s had to potentially “plan” for such an occasion and interview the reality is its impossible, I listen to his interview at least 4 times for memory, and not once did he ever slip up or trip up on what he was saying, (I know we didn’t get to hear the full version but I doubt it differed much with how he carried himself) and I really ask people to think about this hey, firstly you’ve got two trained detectives that have had years on this case and then approx a week to plan as much information and questions to ask and to deliver it and employ certain tactics whilst doing so, (also not in a million years would both of those detectives have ever thought they’d get a 6 hour interview with him with not a lawyer in sight!! not to mention the enormity continuing to mount up on BRE as the day and the hours went on, he had his whole life up ended at the flick of a switch that morning and it started early that day too!

Bearing in mind the content and span of the information and topics covered in his interview to which a significant amount he either included or chose to elaborate on, you wouldn’t find too many individuals that could handle themselves like that under what would seem an enormous amount of duress, basically 0-48 years of his life he covered in detail, family, friends, relationships, places lived, school’s, his work/employment, hobbies, cars owned, car accidents, colour of those cars, places he socialized at, almost every notable detail and information about his mum and dad, sister and brother, the dates, time lines and specific details he continued to recount and offer were incredible! Keeping in mind that the more information that he was giving out to such specific detail could of an was reversed used to question him about certain periods in his life and were then tied in with other loaded questions they put to him, I even recall Aaron Capes at one stage (and it was a deliberate tactic employed by him) was loosely recounting some of the info that BRE had mentioned from earlier in the day about one of his cars (his old Holden for memory) and Capes was like so what did you do with your Holden after it was written off from the car accident you had on Stirling Hwy.. and BRE just casually corrected him and said no it wasn’t written off it just had a damaged front fender and drivers door XYZ which was actually the exact info BRE told them as to what happened with it from earlier in that interview.

But single-handedly the most incredible part to that whole interview was the fact that BRE would have known full well that the detectives would of and did have some very key known information alleging him to these crimes, but of course BRE would not have known even remotely as to what this information was or the depth of it, or if a what stage it might be used/mentioned/questioned with several of the responses that BRE had given throughout the interview, yet still he handed out and offered sooo much context and depth of information about him and his entire life and not once did I hear him get caught out or box himself into a dead end! And probably one of the things that highlights what im referring to in this last paragraph the most was when he was asked about the 1988 Huntingdale attacks/break and enter/assaults etc, remembering that earlier that morning when he was read the charges against him when he was sitting on the floor at his Kewdale home one of those charges was specifically relating to Huntingdale etc, and so early on in the interview he was asked if he knew this person etc which he openly admitted and even elaborated on in so detail, the natural instinct for most is either lie or deny or both, but the fact that he openly discussed information about how he knew this person and how they had previously associated ie: mainly through BRE brother and the fact that BRE recalls very well that (I think it was the victims brother) tried to so called drown him in their pool a few times I’m sure we all get what he was referring to by this as such, but concluding here I guess I’m more referring to the fact that he acknowledged a reasonable amount of info and interaction about knowing the Huntingdale victim early on in the interview bearing in mind that a) he was well aware of the charges against him just in relation to this count, b) it was still early on in the whole overall interview so he would have had no idea as to what “potential rod for his own back” he could or could not have been creating at that stage, but yet c) the continuous amount, depth and specific recall of info he further went on to offer during the whole interview, yet still knowing that they had to of had some very direct and specific solid evidence against him whilst not knowing what it was but not want to incriminate himself by anything he may answer or mention throughout that interview that could have placed him right into the cross hairs of full stop guilty for one or all of the counts against him at that stage/time and then further place him into a hole he couldn’t get back out of, which also on its own merit remains unbelievable to this day that he even entered into any form of an interview with them fullstop! Which I’d like to talk more about that point alone at another time.

Sorry about my waffling here people and any spelling and grammar! But I was pretty keen to get this written out in the end as its been something Ive wanted to post about on here for a longggg time now J
 

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