Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt4 - Beyond the Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two and Part 3
- Media
- The Bunker

• Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
• Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[Krusty Crab]

'The horse trainer was doing trackwork at dawn at the time'

Sarah Spiers was last heard from at 2:06am on Saturday, 27th January 1996.

Sunrise that day of the year (2022) was 5:37am (there was no daylight saving in WA in 1996), 3.5 hours later.

Or 2.5-3 hours after the 2:30am-3am blood-curdling high pitched screams heard in Mosman Park reported to Police by four people, and the light coloured station wagon parked facing the wrong way next to a Monument Street (Mosman Park) Telstra phone box, with 2 occupants in it, where witness Wayne Stewart heard a women scream loudly and heard two doors slam in quick succession before witnessing the car drive off.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/12022022.pdf
'he saw a man who looked like convicted killer Bradley Edwards emerging from bushland in the Perth Hills'

'A horse trainer has told the POST .... He has described an off-white Telstra station wagon backed up to an isolated Telstra hut'

Perth Hills - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Perth Hills is a term used primarily for marketing purposes to identify the part of the Darling Scarp and hinterland east of the scarp that lies within the Shire of Mundaring, City of Swan, and the City of Kalamunda and as part of the constituent bodies belonging to the Eastern Metropolitan Regional Council of Perth, Western Australia.'

'Both Kalamunda and Darlington, as separate and specific areas, were frequently referred to specifically as "The Hills", due to their presence on the edge of the scarp'

Am not sure if the Roe Hwy from Jandakot to High Wycombe was already there in 1996.

I imagine Bradley Robert Edwards would have headed South of the River to get to the Perth Hills (a bit more out of the way than driving North of the River).

He could have easily driven from Mosman Park (3am) to almost anywhere in the Perth Hills before dawn.

View attachment 1326022

the section of roe hwy that runs through the edge of beckenham/back of kenwick was constructed circa early 2000's. my gf at the time lived just off william s in beckenham, the new section of roe was to alleviate the traffic build up on william road. i lived in gosnells during the time of SS disappearance, if you wanted to get to most of the darling scarp from there you would take tonkin hwy from albany hwy, and get onto mills rd/kelvin rd, or welshpool rd and head up through chevin rd or turner rd or collier ave etc. there were lots of bush tracks there back in the day, alot has now dissapeared with the changes to tonkin hwy, and housing growth. other options were south on albany/ south western hwys.

 

[Krusty Crab]

It just got weirder.

Claims Claremont killer seen on day Sarah vanished refuted

Police dismiss claims by horse trainer that he saw a man resembling Claremont killer Bradley Edwards in Perth hills the morning Sarah Spiers disappeared saying there was “no evidence to validate” it.

thewest.com.au

'Claims man resembling Claremont killer Bradley Edwards seen in Perth hills day Sarah Spiers vanished refuted​

Emily Moulton
The West Australian
Fri, 11 February 2022 7:36PM

WA Police have dismissed claims by a horse trainer that he saw a man resembling Claremont killer Bradley Edwards emerging from bushland in the Perth hills the morning Sarah Spiers disappeared saying there was “no evidence to validate the information”.

Police have also refuted the man’s claims that he only came forward with what he saw this month telling The West Australian that information was first reported to officers in October 1997 and had been investigated...

... A WA Police spokeswoman told The West Australian the horse trainer first reported his claims in October 1997 prompting officers attached to the murder inquiry to investigate.

She said since then WA Police had received further reports that “have also been investigated appropriately”.

“There is no evidence to validate the information, and the whereabouts of Sarah remain unknown,” she added.

“WA Police will never give up in their efforts to find Sarah.”

The West Australian understands the information contained in the Post article is different to what the man reported to police in October 1997.'

hmmmm....

so in 1997 police were given some info that relates to another suspicious scenario involving telstra in some way, telstra seems to have popped up quite a bit in their information reports at the time. i wonder if this info was prioritised a bit higher once details of the telstra living witness came to light?

 

[Krusty Crab]

'The horse trainer was doing trackwork at dawn at the time'

Sarah Spiers was last heard from at 2:06am on Saturday, 27th January 1996.

Sunrise that day of the year (2022) was 5:37am (there was no daylight saving in WA in 1996), 3.5 hours later.

Or 2.5-3 hours after the 2:30am-3am blood-curdling high pitched screams heard in Mosman Park reported to Police by four people, and the light coloured station wagon parked facing the wrong way next to a Monument Street (Mosman Park) Telstra phone box, with 2 occupants in it, where witness Wayne Stewart heard a women scream loudly and heard two doors slam in quick succession before witnessing the car drive off.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/12022022.pdf
'he saw a man who looked like convicted killer Bradley Edwards emerging from bushland in the Perth Hills'

'A horse trainer has told the POST .... He has described an off-white Telstra station wagon backed up to an isolated Telstra hut'

Perth Hills - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Perth Hills is a term used primarily for marketing purposes to identify the part of the Darling Scarp and hinterland east of the scarp that lies within the Shire of Mundaring, City of Swan, and the City of Kalamunda and as part of the constituent bodies belonging to the Eastern Metropolitan Regional Council of Perth, Western Australia.'

'Both Kalamunda and Darlington, as separate and specific areas, were frequently referred to specifically as "The Hills", due to their presence on the edge of the scarp'

Am not sure if the Roe Hwy from Jandakot to High Wycombe was already there in 1996.

I imagine Bradley Robert Edwards would have headed South of the River to get to the Perth Hills (a bit more out of the way than driving North of the River).

He could have easily driven from Mosman Park (3am) to almost anywhere in the Perth Hills before dawn.

View attachment 1326022

regards the name sake of an area known as 'the Perth hills' - this could be anywhere. the back of gosnells (known as the foot hills) kelmscott on the north of Albany hwy (known as clifton hills) and armadale in the area now known as mount richon and mount nasura were commonly refered to as the hills by local people.

 

[Krusty Crab]

BRE worked at Dumas House javaguice with Mr. Cook on the Saturday, I think he took the Sunday off. If he panicked on being seen coming out of the bush with a shovel, he might have gone back to the site and moved her.

There's some discussion here:

Current - Claremont Murders - The Bunker

Whoa! Think you're onto something there Ms Finch! Rejection by men, interesting! Maybe not necessarily BRE presenting as a gay man to DF (or any other man) but being affectionate, hugging (and holding on too long?) arm around shoulder too often, that type of thing? BRE mixed up sexually and not...

www.bigfooty.com

if i recall there was some question over the travel arrangements and start times of bre and my cook for that day. from memory the supervisor had BRE down as starting earlier than mr cook, but someone testified that they left together for work in mr cooks car. this led to questions as to where BRE work car was, and why they would take mr cooks car.

what if BRE was getting a lift to work with mr cook, as he still needed to clean the car after the encounter with SS? there could of been anything left in the car from what ever happened, and (if the recently claimed story is true) there could of been dirt and or red dust covering the car from being off road. (the scarp area has lots of pea gravel and the like). if the car had been in the scarp/hills area in the pea gravel it would be extremely obvious to any local where it had been recently.

 

[Kurve]

if i recall there was some question over the travel arrangements and start times of bre and my cook for that day. from memory the supervisor had BRE down as starting earlier than mr cook, but someone testified that they left together for work in mr cooks car. this led to questions as to where BRE work car was, and why they would take mr cooks car.

what if BRE was getting a lift to work with mr cook, as he still needed to clean the car after the encounter with SS? there could of been anything left in the car from what ever happened, and (if the recently claimed story is true) there could of been dirt and or red dust covering the car from being off road. (the scarp area has lots of pea gravel and the like). if the car had been in the scarp/hills area in the pea gravel it would be extremely obvious to any local where it had been recently.

Yes, I remember there was a long discussion about why BRE showed up without his company car the morning after Sarah vanished to get a ride to the Telstra job with Mr. Cook in his personal vehicle.

Mrs. Cook said that BRE either got a lift to their house off his brother or he walked.

We also wondered if Sarah was still in the back of the car. That might make some sense if he was disturbed by the horse trainer at dawn so he had to move her. Stored her in the car until he finished work. Then he had the next day off so yes, there may have been a lot of cleaning up to do.

It's a horrible shame the police never found that car.

 

[GreyCrow]

It's believed the report relates to evidence given by Brigita Cook, the wife of an ex-colleague, who testified it was memorably hot on the morning of January 27 that year - just hours after Edwards allegedly murdered Sarah Spiers - so the men inspected the couple's broken air conditioner before going to work.

 

[Deva]

If this guy says he first reported this back in 1997 but it was dismissed, it would be because the Macro Task force were hell bent on thinking they had their men in Peter Weygers and also Lance Williams, pursuing them both relentlessly. I just hope that now Detective's Marrapodi and Ricciardi at least have a another look into this. The other concern is another instance of where Telstra was ignored in the investigation way back then even.

 

[javaguice]

What was the lawyers closing statement? Something about the weather that day?

 

[BonzaRam]

Mr Cook didn't have a Telstra vehicle because he worked at the RPH - He didn't recall what vehicle they took that day
It Mrs Cook was who said they took the only vehicle they had to Dumas House, a Grey Ford Fairmont, Both said BRE had no vehicle at their house that morning.
Evidently they tried to fix their Air Con because Mrs Cook said it was a very hot day but it was shown that a Max Temp that day was 29oC. It is believed she was thinking of another day that was hot. That one conflict threw doubt on her testimony about that. Other parts of her testimony where thrown into doubt when her recollection of what hours Mr Cook worked that day at Dumas House did not match with the Supervisors records. BRE started 8am and Mr Cook at 10am.

In the end all that could be confirmed was that BRE worked at Dumas House from 8am to 9.45pm (Supervisors records), what cars where involved was never proven.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/wa/WASC//2020/339.html

 

[GreyCrow]

So it was Cookie who took SS?


(humour people)

 

[emuboy]

What puzzles me is that serial killers don't stop killing until they are either caught or die. Yet close to 20 years went by between the murder of Ciara Glennon in March 1997 and the arrest of Bradley Robert Edwards in December 2016. Edwards had never had any connection with this investigation before, not even a minor one such as police following up potential witnesses that might have put the fear of God into him. Are there any other serial killers who were free in the community who had committed no other known murders so long after their last known victim?

 

[GreyCrow]

What puzzles me is that serial killers don't stop killing until they are either caught or die. Yet close to 20 years went by between the murder of Ciara Glennon in March 1997 and the arrest of Bradley Robert Edwards in December 2016. Edwards had never had any connection with this investigation before, not even a minor one such as police following up potential witnesses that might have put the fear of God into him. Are there any other serial killers who were free in the community who had committed no other known murders so long after their last known victim?

I think the idea they dont stop is wrong.

It depends on why they start. Certainly a high percentage continue till caught or dead but there are also some who stop - or at least have long breaks -

If we go by Barbagallos theory (one which I support) then his stressors were such for a period of time he ''let go '' of the inner demons

Given his criminal history there is an element of control management within him. He attacks the hospital worker in 1990 and suppresses until 1995? and the Karakatta rape . His life continues to spiral and his personal relationships deteriorate and he starts the killing

He then finds another relationship partner and his moods abate ie the reasons to attack diminish - ie suppression control

BTK - Dennis Rader is one that comes to mind. Killing between 1974 and 1991 he (seemingly) stopped until he contacted the police in 2005 and was caught

Not All Serial Killers Must Keep On Killing

There are serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught.

www.psychologytoday.com

Highlights other cases

 

[Wombot]

What puzzles me is that serial killers don't stop killing until they are either caught or die. Yet close to 20 years went by between the murder of Ciara Glennon in March 1997 and the arrest of Bradley Robert Edwards in December 2016. Edwards had never had any connection with this investigation before, not even a minor one such as police following up potential witnesses that might have put the fear of God into him. Are there any other serial killers who were free in the community who had committed no other known murders so long after their last known victim?

The original Nightstalker seemed to retire. It does happen, even if it’s not typical.

Plus no one says that BRE did retire. Police would be investigating his involvement in subsequent unsolved murders.

BRE ceased operating in Claremont simply because it was impossible to continue there without being caught, given the extra surveillance. He would have changed his location of operations, that’s all.

 

[zedx]

The original Nightstalker seemed to retire. It does happen, even if it’s not typical.

Plus no one says that BRE did retire. Police would be investigating his involvement in subsequent unsolved murders.

BRE ceased operating in Claremont simply because it was impossible to continue there without being caught, given the extra surveillance. He would have changed his location of operations, that’s all.

Agree, we don't know and may never know if he changed his MO.

 

[utility]

Are there any other serial killers who were free in the community who had committed no other known murders so long after their last known victim?

Joseph James DeAngelo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[megadeth86]

the section of roe hwy that runs through the edge of beckenham/back of kenwick was constructed circa early 2000's. my gf at the time lived just off william s in beckenham, the new section of roe was to alleviate the traffic build up on william road. i lived in gosnells during the time of SS disappearance, if you wanted to get to most of the darling scarp from there you would take tonkin hwy from albany hwy, and get onto mills rd/kelvin rd, or welshpool rd and head up through chevin rd or turner rd or collier ave etc. there were lots of bush tracks there back in the day, alot has now dissapeared with the changes to tonkin hwy, and housing growth. other options were south on albany/ south western hwys.

Yes, you are right, I remember driving on Roe Highway between Kenwick link and Orrong Road in 2003, might be late 2002 too.

 

[megadeth86]

What puzzles me is that serial killers don't stop killing until they are either caught or die. Yet close to 20 years went by between the murder of Ciara Glennon in March 1997 and the arrest of Bradley Robert Edwards in December 2016. Edwards had never had any connection with this investigation before, not even a minor one such as police following up potential witnesses that might have put the fear of God into him. Are there any other serial killers who were free in the community who had committed no other known murders so long after their last known victim?

Yes, "Bible John" murdered three women in Glasgow in the late-1960s, was never caught and never re-offended as far as we know.

I had to laugh at the above poster saying 29C was too cool to be considered a hot day.

In Glasgow 21C is considered to be a hot day!

 

[BFew]

Was that you Bradley?

‘People could have died’: Fresh fears following jail fire

The WA Prison Officers Union says it is pure luck that no one was killed at Casuarina Prison on Wednesday after an inmate lit multiple fires and caused significant damage to the jail.

thewest.com.au

'Wed, 9 March 2022 8:12PM'

'... The union says major staff shortages compounded Wednesday’s incident, which was sparked when one inmate barricaded themselves in a prison wing before starting multiple fires in a laundry and in rubbish bins.

The inmate is then said to have smashed windows and other parts of the jail, including toilets and sinks.
As a result the massive maximum security prison was put into lock-down and visitors turned away.

At least seven ambulances were at the scene as authorities worked to regain control of the facility.
A St John Ambulance spokeswoman confirmed paramedics were called to the jail about 12.40pm.
Five men - two in their 20s, one in his 30s, one in his 40s and a fifth in his 50s - were sent to Fiona Stanley for non-life-threatening injuries - mainly smoke inhalation.
The WAPOU has said three of those men taken to hospital were prison staff members.

Union industrial officer Beven Hanlon said the incident was incredibly serious and that someone could have been killed.
“The entire wing is now out of commission,” Mr Hanlon said.
“We were lucky, people could have died today.
“It’s not good management that people didn’t die today, it was luck.
“The worst part is these (incidents) are avoidable if they just staff the prison properly.
“A significant amount of damage has been done to the place.”

A spokeswoman for the Department of Corrections confirmed earlier on Wednesday there was an “incident” at the prison but said it was not a riot.
“There has been an incident, where one prisoner caused some damage to a unit, breaking windows and setting a fire,” she said.
“He has been moved to another unit and his actions referred for criminal charge assessment.
“No other prisoners have been involved" ...'

 

[Kurve]

“The worst part is these (incidents) are avoidable if they just staff the prison properly.

Does this mean they're going to take all BREs matchsticks away?

 

[BFew]

Does this mean they're going to take all BREs matchsticks away?

Surely his stash of matchsticks would have already had the fuel tips removed before he was allowed anywhere near them.

 

[mrskafoops]

I'm just going to leave this here because I THINK or hope we might find out what he was doing between February and October in 1988.

You can see here how many times he targeted specific houses and that's just what we know of. BRE isn't just a random opportunistic prowler although that factors in, he was targeting someone in at 61 Huntingdale Road. He went there at least four times. There would be many, many times he wasn't seen.

• #74

Mid January 76 Harpenden Street. Theft from clothesline.

21 January 1988, 3.10am Lot 3 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

21 January 1988, 4.10 am. 61 Huntingdale Road. Break & enter. Caught in the bedroom. Disturbed & ran.

23 January 1988, 9.00 pm 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

28 January 1988, 9.30 pm. 61 Huntingdale Road. Spying. Disturbed & ran.

Late Jan & early Feb 1988. Lot 1401 Bullfinch Street. Theft from clothesline.

11 February 1988, 1.00 am, Lot 1386 Bullfinch Street. Break & enter. Disturbed actually in the master bedroom & ran.

11 February, 1988. 2.00am 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

15 February, 1988. Address suppressed. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

THE 8 MONTH GAP Departed Australia 18 April 1988, returning on 2 May 1988.

* (20 June 1988. Julie Cutler disappeared, last seen 12.30am. Her car is found in the sea at Cottesloe. Nobody saw a thing.)

8 October, 1988. 78A Harpenden Road, Huntingdale. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

What this also tells me is that he is not stealthy ...

 

[BFew]

Traumatised woman who survived Claremont killer tells story

One of the women who survived being attacked by Claremont killer Bradley Edwards is ready for her entire story, in her own words, to finally be told.

thewest.com.au

'Bradley Robert Edwards: Woman who survived attack by Claremont killer ready for her story to be told​

Tim Clarke
The West Australian
Wed, 25 May 2022 4:00AM'

'*Don’t Make a Fuss: It’s Only the Claremont Serial Killer by Wendy Davis will be available from Fremantle Press on June 1.'

'In the book, Ms Davis reveals in extraordinary detail the attack, for which Edwards was swiftly convicted — without her even giving a witness statement.'

'It also tackles what her experience says about how a woman’s place and her trauma was viewed by Australian society in 1990, compared to now.'

'she feels WA Police have still not faced up to those mistakes.'
“They have not officially acknowledged to me the part that they played,” she said.
“And I am not expecting they will.”'

See the Claremont Murders - Media thread for more from this Tim Clark article.

And don't forget to pre-order/buy Wendy Davis's book.

 

[BFew]

Here's links to some of the many places you can pre-order or buy (release date Wednesday 1 June, 2022) the paperback and eBook of
Don’t Make a Fuss: It’s Only the Claremont Serial Killer, a memoir by (CSK living victim/witness) Wendy Davis

Don’t Make a Fuss: It’s Only the Claremont Serial Killer - Fremantle Press

In 2020, after the longest and most expensive trial in Western Australian history, Bradley Robert Edwards was convicted of two of the Claremont Serial Killings, a series of unsolved murders that had haunted the state since the mid-1990s. But before he went to trial, before he started killing...

fremantlepress.com.au

Don't Make a Fuss: It's Only the Claremont Serial Killer eBook : Davis, Wendy: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

Don't Make a Fuss: It's Only the Claremont Serial Killer eBook : Davis, Wendy: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com.au

Don't Make a Fuss

Biographies & Memoirs · 2022

books.apple.com

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Wendy_Davis_Don_t_Make_a_Fuss

 

[BFew]

Bradley Robert Edwards should not have even kept his Telstra job prior to 1990 when Wendy Davis was assaulted by him, had he been quickly apprehended, charged and convicted for all of his Huntingdale crimes in 1988.

Claremont killer’s early assault victim urges survivors to speak out

Wendy Davis wants women to know: not only is it OK to make a fuss, but sometimes it’s very necessary.

www.watoday.com.au

'She initially began to write about her involvement as a form of therapy, but soon realised she had an important message to share with other women.

“As I was writing I gradually started to see that I was part of a much bigger picture,” she said.

“Women and children in Australia are facing assaults all the time and I felt that my story was from the perspective of a survivor of crime. I felt like I was speaking out for the victims.

“I realised I wanted people to know just what can happen if the signs of escalating violence are ignored, if no one listens to the victims of abuse. I thought my story, what happened to me, demonstrates that perfectly. If escalating violence is ignored, if women are not listened to, then men can go on to commit terrible crimes.”

Davis believes if Telstra or WA Police had taken her attack more seriously, Edwards would have lost his job, and would likely have appeared on the radar of homicide detectives much sooner.'

'After Edwards was convicted in 2020, Telstra issued a public apology to Davis about how her case was managed.'

 

[zedx]

Bradley Robert Edwards should not have even kept his Telstra job prior to 1990 when Wendy Davis was assaulted by him, had he been quickly apprehended, charged and convicted for all of his Huntingdale crimes in 1988.

Claremont killer’s early assault victim urges survivors to speak out

Wendy Davis wants women to know: not only is it OK to make a fuss, but sometimes it’s very necessary.

www.watoday.com.au

'She initially began to write about her involvement as a form of therapy, but soon realised she had an important message to share with other women.

“As I was writing I gradually started to see that I was part of a much bigger picture,” she said.

“Women and children in Australia are facing assaults all the time and I felt that my story was from the perspective of a survivor of crime. I felt like I was speaking out for the victims.

“I realised I wanted people to know just what can happen if the signs of escalating violence are ignored, if no one listens to the victims of abuse. I thought my story, what happened to me, demonstrates that perfectly. If escalating violence is ignored, if women are not listened to, then men can go on to commit terrible crimes.”

Davis believes if Telstra or WA Police had taken her attack more seriously, Edwards would have lost his job, and would likely have appeared on the radar of homicide detectives much sooner.'

'After Edwards was convicted in 2020, Telstra issued a public apology to Davis about how her case was managed.'

Unfortunately, things were very different in that era - “Not making a fuss was the very strong message that women of my generation received in regards to speaking out........." If that were to happen today he quite likely would have the book thrown at him. (Unless of course if your an MP or work at Parliament house - sarcasmnot)