Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

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shellyg

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shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?
I posted the old newspaper clip somewhere, either in one of the CSK threads or the Cutler but it was a while ago. Can't remember how they did it but 'random testing' for steroids stuck in my mind.
 

shellyg

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shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?
Also have a vague recollection of authorities testing waste water to see how big the problem was? I don't know if that even makes sense, too much information over the years I can't retain it all.
 

craigos

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I posted the old newspaper clip somewhere, either in one of the CSK threads or the Cutler but it was a while ago. Can't remember how they did it but 'random testing' for steroids stuck in my mind.
It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.
Also have a vague recollection of authorities testing waste water to see how big the problem was? I don't know if that even makes sense, too much information over the years I can't retain it all.
This happens frequently when testing water samples. Always reports of different pharmaceuticals being present in drinking water when its been treated. Am sure they could test waste water easily enough if they wanted to.
 

shellyg

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It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.
Urine, hair, blood and how would it be illegal if the cops are doing it? Pretty sure also on a jail tox screens they test for steroids as well.

Urgh ... I'll try and find the clipping. :p
 

Melsy

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It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.

This happens frequently when testing water samples. Always reports of different pharmaceuticals being present in drinking water when its been treated. Am sure they could test waste water easily enough if they wanted to.
I don't know how they would test that in Perth in drinking water. It is all treated together as sewerage on the way out. Each suburb is now tested in the sewerage for drugs which is why when I found a considerable quantity of crack, I was reluctant to tip it down my toilet and set off all the alarms down at Watercorp and win crack suburb of the month.
Perth does not recycle its drinking water AFAIK right now. If so, it has not been long. Not to be confused with injecting treated water back into the ground.

AFAIK, Perth would need a water purifier to recycle drinking water back into the grid which Perth probably doesn't have on a large scale.
 
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shellyg

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In this WA Law Reform Commission report they get a mention but I have to go back even further than late 2000's to find the reference to the late 80s. Just to show it's on the radar.

Further, some offenders commit offences while under the influence of drugs. In particular, the excessive use of anabolic steroids and amphetamines has been linked to increases in violent offending.10

 

craigos

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Urine, hair, blood and how would it be illegal if the cops are doing it? Pretty sure also on a jail tox screens they test for steroids as well.

Urgh ... I'll try and find the clipping. :p
If you'd been arrested for a crime they could but just approaching random people for a drug test? Civil Liberties Australia would have an aneurysm.
 

shellyg

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If you'd been arrested for a crime they could but just approaching random people for a drug test? Civil Liberties Australia would have an aneurysm.
'Random testing' is all I remember and there was a picture of a head cop in WA in the article saying it was a real problem. Never heard of anything like it before in any of the other states nor do I remember how they were doing these tests. Around the same era, lateish 80s there was also a problem with drink spiking.
 

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shellyg

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I don't know how or why they would. The DNA they had for a long time was minimal apart from the rape.

First I have heard of any suspects tested for steroids.
I didn't say CSK 'suspects' (if that's what you were referring to) were tested for steroids only that Perth was flooded with illegal steroids in the late 80s and that the cops were testing for them.
 

Melsy

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I didn't say 'suspects' were tested for steroids only that Perth was flooded with illegal steroids in the late 80s and that the cops were testing for them.
Not sure... Why would they even bother... What a waste of resources. Even then, head down the local gym and test a few people. Not sure CSK...
 

shellyg

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Not sure... Why would they even bother... What a waste of resources. Even then, head down the local gym and test a few people. Not sure CSK...
Now I remember. Aside from the article if I find it again I'll repost, I saw in a government report the percentage of people in WA who had taken illegal steroids in comparison to the other states and the difference was massive. I don't recall the exact percentages but well over double in WA. WA had the highest levels of users 80/90s.
 

Melsy

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Now I remember. Aside from the article if I find it again I'll repost, I saw in a government report the percentage of people in WA who had taken illegal steroids in comparison to the other states and the difference was massive. I don't recall the exact percentages but well over double in WA. WA had the highest levels of users.
Still not sure CSK....
 

Melsy

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shellyg

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Melsy

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Me either. But we'll see I guess if anything comes up.
Someone definitely preferred the night walking the streets, jumping fences, breaking into peoples houses. How do you hold down a job while gallivanting around in the night? Stealing women's underwear and sporting apparel.

I don't know anyone that had these behaviors in their youth unless drug use was involved and to the lesser alcohol. That's hard work wandering the neighbourhood in 1988 as a 19 year old.

Just going out for a bit mummy. Were the parents a little ignorant of the behavior?

What date was the 1988 Bali trip?
 

Girlnextdoor

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And this….
"Sydney has recently witnessed two particularly brutal murders by users of anabolic steroids. One man with recent paranoid tendencies took a claw hammer and battered his wife to death, and then shot himself. In the second murder a man met a woman he knew at a nightclub and they went to the stairwell of a nearby hotel. In the man's words "something snapped" and he murdered the woman. Experienced police described it as the most brutal attack they had encountered. In both these murders the level of aggression and violence fits the descriptive term steroid rage ("roid rage")."

Fascinating article. I'm wondering when this "roid rage" might form part of a defence argument in our Aussie courts?

"Severe effects manifest when these aggressive feelings increase to the extent that violent, hostile, antisocial behaviour develops, meriting the descriptive title, well known in the steroid-taking community, of "roid rages". These rages can result in property damage,
3.
MJA: Anabolic steroids and the mind
2 di 8
self-injury (including reckless driving or crashing cars), assaults, marriage break-ups, domestic violence, 12 child abuse, 12 suicide 13 and attempted murder or murder."

 

Melsy

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Cutler and Dorothy were May & June I think. The little yellow car.

Madora Bay was a fiscal year settlement I think. Was there a we have a problem Huston moment? Shift the problem elsewhere?
 
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Melsy

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And this….
"Sydney has recently witnessed two particularly brutal murders by users of anabolic steroids. One man with recent paranoid tendencies took a claw hammer and battered his wife to death, and then shot himself. In the second murder a man met a woman he knew at a nightclub and they went to the stairwell of a nearby hotel. In the man's words "something snapped" and he murdered the woman. Experienced police described it as the most brutal attack they had encountered. In both these murders the level of aggression and violence fits the descriptive term steroid rage ("roid rage")."

Fascinating article. I'm wondering when this "roid rage" might form part of a defence argument in our Aussie courts?

"Severe effects manifest when these aggressive feelings increase to the extent that violent, hostile, antisocial behaviour develops, meriting the descriptive title, well known in the steroid-taking community, of "roid rages". These rages can result in property damage,
3.
MJA: Anabolic steroids and the mind
2 di 8
self-injury (including reckless driving or crashing cars), assaults, marriage break-ups, domestic violence, 12 child abuse, 12 suicide 13 and attempted murder or murder."

Very self evident. Was it the Paddy case in Perth? C hopped the boyfriend up and put him in a wheelie bin? I may have cases mixed up.

I lived in fear I would embarrass my parents . Stealing women's nickers would not go down well
 

Girlnextdoor

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Ah, here's my answer, from previous uploaded site. Tried it in USA already, called the "dumbbell defence" Didn't work!

"The first two murder cases in which taking anabolic steroids was used as a defence (called the "dumbbell defence" by Newsweek ) were in the United States in 1988; both men were found guilty of murder. Some 20 murders associated with the use of anabolic steroids have been reported in America, 26 but the usual pleas of innocence due to temporary insanity have never been upheld there. Sydney's two cases are summarised in the Box."
 
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