Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
63,077
51,758
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Using a hole dug the day before by the cemetery for an early burial the next morning, and left unattended overnight has been speculated on forums over the years.
The general idea being that the body of SS could've been concealed in a preexisting grave on the night.
It's generally thought to be difficult to sleuth a list of possible gravesites by amateur detectives because MCB database via the website is not searchable by date of burial. I'd assume that is on the list of places that police have to go through, and there's probably many others.
I don't envy their chances as ground penetrating radar would be complicated due to the cemetery burying bodies on top of previous burials as plot leases expire. For example, the cemetery renewal program has seen a vast expansion of this practice. http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/our-cemeteries/karrakatta-cemetery/cemetery-renewal

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
this is possible.

As mentioned above, I found it hard to believe a full grave could be dug or a shallow grave not being uncovered. but what you propose is completely possible.

There are number of graves left open each night, with loads of soft sand nearby to tidy things up
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Badge666

Team Captain
Jan 12, 2017
318
652
AFL Club
Carlton
No. No.Very Theatrical suppositions about SS and Karrakatta -sorry but nigh impossible at a busy major city cemetery like that -workers and mourners would be onto it like a flash with open graves waiting to be filled the next day , and digging the soft earth from a filled grave is going to be evident to workers , security patrols etc- digging even a shallow grave in soft earth takes hours and the last thing any murderer wants to do is draw attention to themselves at a metropolitan cemetery.
The Calabrian Mafia did bury a victim in a recently filled grave at a deserted remote country cemetery in Shepparton East some years ago but there was a fair biota local knowledge involved in that one and no chance of being seen at night or full-time staff discovering it.
No.
The KK victim was taken to the cemetery primarily to frighten the wits out of her ,and possibly with some goth/bondage fantasies or homage to Richard Ramirizez who had a well publicised fascination with graves and cemeteries.
I am sure there are a number of young women who had been drinking in the Claremont precinct who were also abducted and assaulted to varying degrees but never reported it or spoke about it at the time or ever again.
 

Krusty Crab

Debutant
Jan 5, 2019
74
156
AFL Club
West Coast
if the csk was to bury SS in a pre dug grave at KK cemetery, then could one elongate on this to suggest premeditation of the crime? in my view to facilitate the above idea, the csk would need to bring a shovel, and have a look around before the crime to find an empty grave to use. if he hadn't done this prior home work, i cant see him hunting around the cemetery in the dark looking for a fresh dug grave, then trying to find a shovel, the whole time hanging on to a dead body. also, if we are to believe that BRE is the CSK, and all his alleged crimes are legit, then the whole premeditation idea doesn't fit. the pinching of clothes from washing lines, the sexual assault in huntingdale, even the assault at HH, how much was actually pre-planned? it looks like none of these crimes had exit strategies planned for.

If BRE is the CSK, then i believe SS was a bungled rape. as with the previous alleged crimes he had apparently raped before, but extreme violence was not in the plan. maybe she fought back, maybe she tried to escape, which made him angry, and brought upon the violence, which then resulted in the murder as a way to hide the crime and guarantee silence. If this is the case then in my view she would of been put into the car, and he would of retreated to an area he knew well while figuring out what to do. My belief is that if BRE is the CSK, then SS will be somewhere in huntingdale/gosnells or near by. unfortunately this area at that time had a lot of bushland, some of which is now housing estates.
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 2, 2014
8,750
16,427
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Getting into a pre-dug grave is not an issue, a ladder will do (which he would possess). Now is the hard part, actually digging further down and removing the soil with no mechanical aid. Why would you bother? Perth was sparsely populated so he could already have a site prepared not to far away and reduce the risk of being seen to near zero.
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
63,077
51,758
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Getting into a pre-dug grave is not an issue, a ladder will do (which he would possess). Now is the hard part, actually digging further down and removing the soil with no mechanical aid. Why would you bother? Perth was sparsely populated so he could already have a site prepared not to far away and reduce the risk of being seen to near zero.
I agree

It seems unlikely, especially given the other bodies were just dumped.

I'd suggest SS was dummped in the once swampy areas just like huntingdale and now built over
 

BonzaRam

Debutant
Jan 21, 2019
108
232
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I can see no reason to think SS was buried anywhere. There is no indication that the CSK buried or attempted to bury anyone, but rather, what he did was loosely cover the bodies that have been found with tree branches....

What we do know is that a howling blood curdling scream was heard in the Mosman Park area........ we also know that a similar scream was heard in Wellard also, where JR was found...... As for CG well Englington is isolated enough for no-one to hear any sounds........ I suspect SS was murdered right where the screams where heard. Being that she was his first murder (that we know of) I suspect a bit of panic would have been in play and she was dumped/concealed in a hurry and probably not far from where the screams where heard. He learned from that when it came to JR and CG.......
 

petedavo

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2008
1,386
1,709
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
I can see no reason to think SS was buried anywhere. There is no indication that the CSK buried or attempted to bury anyone, but rather, what he did was loosely cover the bodies that have been found with tree branches....

What we do know is that a howling blood curdling scream was heard in the Mosman Park area........ we also know that a similar scream was heard in Wellard also, where JR was found...... As for CG well Englington is isolated enough for no-one to hear any sounds........ I suspect SS was murdered right where the screams where heard. Being that she was his first murder (that we know of) I suspect a bit of panic would have been in play and she was dumped/concealed in a hurry and probably not far from where the screams where heard. He learned from that when it came to JR and CG.......
Looking for SS.
The reports of Screams at Mosman Park, that a witness who lived near Coles apparently was disturbed enough to look and saw a couple near a car makes me wonder if it was SS and if she ended up in this bin a few hours before the rubbish removal truck emptied it?


Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
Witness at corner St Leonard's St and Monument St saw a couple at a car on Monument St. One of the nearest streets to turn off Monument St if you wanted to escape the attention of witnesses is Lochee St, especially if the shopping centre carpark was the original destination for a sexual assault. The closest possible dump site is the Coles dumpster. It's reasonably secluded and anyways neighbours probably so used to people dumping their rubbish in it, they'd probably not register anything unusual. A bit of cardboard on top and rubbish collection early morning before Coles opened and viola! No trace. Body under a mountain of landfill IMO.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 2, 2014
8,750
16,427
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Witness at corner St Leonard's St and Monument St saw a couple at a car on Monument St. One of the nearest streets to turn off Monument St if you wanted to escape the attention of witnesses is Lochee St, especially if the shopping centre carpark was the original destination for a sexual assault. The closest possible dump site is the Coles dumpster. It's reasonably secluded and anyways neighbours probably so used to people dumping their rubbish in it, they'd probably not register anything unusual. A bit of cardboard on top and rubbish collection early morning before Coles opened and viola! No trace. Body under a mountain of landfill IMO.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
Again, the risk factor of this seems too high for someone planning a murder when there are other options available.

He'd hope he or his vehicle wasn't seen whilst doing this​
Hope the bin wasn't full​
Hope the bin wasn't locked​
Have to lift a lifeless body up and into the bin (which if anyone has tried to move a limp body before knows is very hard)​
Not leave any sign of evidence of him there​
Hope no one notices the body in the bin if adding rubbish to it​
Hope it's collected before the smell of the body raises an issue​
 

shellyg

Spec Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
6,909
10,017
No Surrender
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- EDWARDS [No 2] [2019] WASC 282

HEARD: 24 & 25 JUNE 2019
DELIVERED: 9 AUGUST 2019


Criminal law - Evidence - Whether evidence is relevant - Rulings made.

This one is a doozy!


Wow ... there's a lot to see in here. Names included and some initials so we might be good to use those but keep our discussion within the limits of the document as it pertains to witnesses.

One thing jumped out at me which is probably trivial in the bigger scheme but, any relationship that starts on April Fools Day probably won't end well.

31 The State says that the relevance of this is that the relationship with CG commenced on 1 April 1997 and Ms Glennon went missing on 15 March 1997.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Sorbet Bliss

Team Captain
Feb 26, 2018
318
1,007
This just in. With more to come.

"The Supreme Court judge presiding over the Claremont serial killings trial has chastised prosecutors for failing to advise the court over potential new evidence — after it emerged a separate two day hearing would need to be held to deal with new issues arising from objections."

 

Sorbet Bliss

Team Captain
Feb 26, 2018
318
1,007
"These matters are yet to be resolved, so at a criminal case conference in the Supreme Court of WA on Friday, a two-day hearing was tentatively scheduled for October 21 and 22 - less than four weeks before the murder trial is set to start."

"Justice Stephen Hall, who will hear the nine-month trial without a jury, initially planned to push through most of the Christmas break but now concedes that could prove difficult, especially for witnesses.
The trial will now break for a fortnight, resuming on January 6, but legal argument may be heard during that period."

"Edwards appeared in court on Friday via videolink from the maximum-security Casuarina Prison but must appear at the hearing in October in person."

 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 2, 2014
8,750
16,427
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
This document is like a treasure hunt, feels like a spoiler to keep jumping out with finds so I'll give you a hint. We finally might have the answer as to exactly what was used to bind the victims.
Care to save me some reading time? :)
 

shellyg

Spec Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
6,909
10,017
No Surrender
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Care to save me some reading time? :)
Okay, deemed to be irrelevant 'knot' evidence but interesting nonetheless and it might come up again particularly that he made clotheslines out of Telstra cable.

34 The next objection is to paragraphs 130 - 132. In these paragraphs CG states that the accused is adept at knots and that she first noticed this when he showed her how to release a knot on a tarpaulin. She says that the accused made clotheslines at the house they lived in and that he used cable that was from Telstra.

35 The State says that this evidence is relevant because the complainant in the Karrakatta offences states that she was tied up with a piece of knotted cord that appeared to have been pre-prepared and that had the effect of handcuffs. The apparent implication is that a special ability with knots is a characteristic that is relevant to the identity of perpetrator of the Karrakatta offences. Further, the State suggest that this evidence is capable of establishing such a special ability.

36 The defence say that evidence that on one occasion CG had difficulty untying a knot and that the accused showed her how to do it does not have any probative value in relation to the offences against KG (the Karrakatta complainant). KG does not give any evidence about the expertise or otherwise of her assailant, just that she had trouble getting out of being tied up. The defence say that this can happen for a great many reasons which have nothing to do with the expertise of the person who tied the knot.

37 Neither the evidence of KG nor that of CG establish any special or distinctive ability in tying knots. Far less can it be said that there is any feature established by this evidence that can be said to be clearly present in the Karrakatta offences. The evidence of CG is general and unremarkable and does not reveal any characteristic that is uncommon or capable of being used to distinguish the accused from other people. The fact that the accused was able to demonstrate to CG how to untie a knot in a tarpaulin and set up clotheslines at their house does not make it any more likely that he was the assailant in the Karrakatta offences. The evidence is not relevant.
 

petedavo

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2008
1,386
1,709
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast

petedavo

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2008
1,386
1,709
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Presumably, CH doesn't remember where that bush lot is. Or it was kept out of the judgement, to presumably stop half of Perth showing up this weekend to fossick about. Well, it was "south" and not the Miller Rd dump site. So that narrows it down, not by much at all. :(
 

craigos

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 2, 2014
8,750
16,427
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Okay, deemed to be irrelevant 'knot' evidence but interesting nonetheless and it might come up again particularly that he made clotheslines out of Telstra cable.

34 The next objection is to paragraphs 130 - 132. In these paragraphs CG states that the accused is adept at knots and that she first noticed this when he showed her how to release a knot on a tarpaulin. She says that the accused made clotheslines at the house they lived in and that he used cable that was from Telstra.

35 The State says that this evidence is relevant because the complainant in the Karrakatta offences states that she was tied up with a piece of knotted cord that appeared to have been pre-prepared and that had the effect of handcuffs. The apparent implication is that a special ability with knots is a characteristic that is relevant to the identity of perpetrator of the Karrakatta offences. Further, the State suggest that this evidence is capable of establishing such a special ability.

36 The defence say that evidence that on one occasion CG had difficulty untying a knot and that the accused showed her how to do it does not have any probative value in relation to the offences against KG (the Karrakatta complainant). KG does not give any evidence about the expertise or otherwise of her assailant, just that she had trouble getting out of being tied up. The defence say that this can happen for a great many reasons which have nothing to do with the expertise of the person who tied the knot.

37 Neither the evidence of KG nor that of CG establish any special or distinctive ability in tying knots. Far less can it be said that there is any feature established by this evidence that can be said to be clearly present in the Karrakatta offences. The evidence of CG is general and unremarkable and does not reveal any characteristic that is uncommon or capable of being used to distinguish the accused from other people. The fact that the accused was able to demonstrate to CG how to untie a knot in a tarpaulin and set up clotheslines at their house does not make it any more likely that he was the assailant in the Karrakatta offences. The evidence is not relevant.
The use of the initials CG really threw me for a bit!

I actually agree with the defense. Without actual evidence showing what knot was used it's irrelevant (imo) whether he was a professional knotsmen(?) or knot not.

To me it sounds like the knot evidence only relates to the Karrakatta crime, so there was no bindings found where CG was found?
 

sprockets

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2004
3,596
4,394
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- EDWARDS [No 2] [2019] WASC 282

HEARD: 24 & 25 JUNE 2019
DELIVERED: 9 AUGUST 2019


Criminal law - Evidence - Whether evidence is relevant - Rulings made.

That was an interesting read Sorbet Bliss. There were a few things that got my attention, particularly:

"5. CH
43 CH met the accused a number of times in the mid-1990s because
a good friend of hers was going out with the accused's brother. She
went out to restaurants with the accused on a number of occasions. The
objection is to paragraphs 54 - 58 of her statement. In those paragraphs
she states that on one occasion she was in the accused's car when he
detoured to show her what he described as a worksite. He pulled up in
an area that had a clearing that was about half-an-acre with smaller
shrubs and trees around it. It was somewhere south of the river. The
accused wanted her to get out of the car but she said no as she could not
see much point. She said she could not understand why he took her
there as there was nothing to see.
She said that she told him it was
boring and wanted to go. They then left and continued to their
destination. She said that the accused was not happy that she was not
interested but he did not get cross."

Creepy in hindsight.
--------------------------------------------
"6. Tracey Jane Chrystal
51 As regards to the evidence relating to the blue sedan the State
says that it is relevant because it shows that the accused had access to a
variety of vehicles and in particular a blue vehicle in circumstances
where one of the witnesses in the Telstra living witness incidents refers
to being driven around in a blue vehicle.
The defence sought further
time to consider this aspect of the evidence."
--------------------------------------------
"10. Deryck Foulner
64. ... In regard to the Telstra
living witness incidents, the State points to one incident relating to the
witness Katrina Jones which occurred in early December of 1995. She
describes a van pulling over and the driver offering to give her a lift.
She climbed into the van and described it as having no writing or logos
on it but that the driver said he worked in telecommunications
. This
incident occurred near to the Albion Hotel on Stirling Highway. The
State submit that an inference can be drawn that whoever was driving
this van was the same person who was parking in Karrakatta as
described by Mr Foulner."

M O established?
--------------------------------------------
"14. The police interview
78 The accused was interviewed by police on 22 December 2016.
Objection is made to two passages in that interview. The first passage
appears at page 130 - 131 of the interview transcript. After a passage in
which the accused admits dressing up in women's clothing but then
denies it
, the interviewing officer presses him for more details and the
accused says that he does not feel comfortable talking about it. He is
pressed in this regard but maintains that he does not wish to answer."

If you didn't dress up in women's clothes you wouldn't be uncomfortable talking about it.
 

FeelingThroaty

Dream Lover.
Dec 3, 2018
211
190
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
I can see no reason to think SS was buried anywhere. There is no indication that the CSK buried or attempted to bury anyone, but rather, what he did was loosely cover the bodies that have been found with tree branches....

What we do know is that a howling blood curdling scream was heard in the Mosman Park area........ we also know that a similar scream was heard in Wellard also, where JR was found...... As for CG well Englington is isolated enough for no-one to hear any sounds........ I suspect SS was murdered right where the screams where heard. Being that she was his first murder (that we know of) I suspect a bit of panic would have been in play and she was dumped/concealed in a hurry and probably not far from where the screams where heard. He learned from that when it came to JR and CG.......
How do we know there was not a BCS, (Blood curdling S.....) way east of Perth. And that the Mosman Park was the real first victim who has not been found? And I do not mean Julie C. Mildly interesting re the court news today.
 

FeelingThroaty

Dream Lover.
Dec 3, 2018
211
190
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Which could point to a spot going from the OBH to the Conti & way beyond. Is there another victim & a line going from the coast thru the Conti & out eastwards?
So the potential witnesses will have a very short Christmas break. Not so flash for them.
 
Top Bottom