Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

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Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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look at the website "whatkatiedid"
Interesting website "whatkatiedid". Back when the murders were committed where would someone purchase these outfits - 1996/1997 the internet was fairly new. The only shops I can think of was Barberellas in Victoria Park and there was one in Gosnells, alongside one of the major grocery stores. The shop Bras and Things,were open back then. It's possible, lingerie was purchased on the assumption it was for a partner to wear.
 

Willow weeps

Team Captain
Dec 21, 2018
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440
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Fremantle
Interesting website "whatkatiedid". Back when the murders were committed where would someone purchase these outfits - 1996/1997 the internet was fairly new. The only shops I can think of was Barberellas in Victoria Park and there was one in Gosnells, alongside one of the major grocery stores. The shop Bras and Things,were open back then. It's possible, lingerie was purchased on the assumption it was for a partner to wear.
some costume shops but there were some stores around as my friend was a Goth back then & she got her corsets & other stuff easily enough
 

Badge666

Team Captain
Jan 12, 2017
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Up is down, black is White, regarding anything we have been told about this tragically mis managed case over the years. WAPOL have blatantly deceived the public with the LW we " have our man " fiasco and the strident denials that victims bodies were definitely not mutilated amongst other falsehoods.
Prior to the arrest of Pencil Boy I posted my opinion on this, and another well known forum that the degree of police ineptitude in the Claremont Serial Killing Case when revealed would be enough "to cause a crisis in Public confidence in the Western Australian Police Force" . I stand by those comments and believe we still have not been told even the half of it.
Some respected posters who should know better are talking as though a conviction in this case is a foregone conclusion . IMO it certainly is not, and evidence regarding DNA and DNA testing is going to be the deciding factor.
A speculative case could be made that despite what we have been told, WAPOL were keeping half an eye open on this bloke from around 2008 after the Schramm review, and belated release of the MM footage .
That only advances in forensics enabled charges to be finally laid .
it would have been a hard sell for the Coppers to start looking at Pencil with a completely fresh slate ten years after the crimes..not that much older than the victims .long term gainfully employed, home owner, doting father of a young daughter. , actively involved in the community...your senior officer would laugh you out the door...unless you took a closer look...kudos and thanks to whoever did.
The prosecutions focus on the accuseds interest in underwear makes sense if items not belonging to the victims were found at crime scenes and whoever it was that committed the Huntingdale series of attacks already has form for BYO undies .and leaving them with a victim. Continuation?
Might prove to be whoever did its eventual undoing.
Getting to the pointy end now. Bring it on. Justice for those innocent young girls having a night out and only trying to get home.
 

BonzaRam

Debutant
Jan 21, 2019
115
249
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Methyl Chloroform? I have never heard of this used in the Printing Industry. Varn, (blanket/roller wash) and quickclean yes. Unless in an obscure part of the industry.
Don't feel alone, nor did most printers know what they were using, due to poor labeling laws back then.

1,1,1-trichloroethane (aka Methyl Chloroform)


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4886190/

 

Likeamystery

Debutant
Aug 11, 2019
78
64
AFL Club
West Coast
Up is down, black is White, regarding anything we have been told about this tragically mis managed case over the years. WAPOL have blatantly deceived the public with the LW we " have our man " fiasco and the strident denials that victims bodies were definitely not mutilated amongst other falsehoods.
Prior to the arrest of Pencil Boy I posted my opinion on this, and another well known forum that the degree of police ineptitude in the Claremont Serial Killing Case when revealed would be enough "to cause a crisis in Public confidence in the Western Australian Police Force" . I stand by those comments and believe we still have not been told even the half of it.
Some respected posters who should know better are talking as though a conviction in this case is a foregone conclusion . IMO it certainly is not, and evidence regarding DNA and DNA testing is going to be the deciding factor.
A speculative case could be made that despite what we have been told, WAPOL were keeping half an eye open on this bloke from around 2008 after the Schramm review, and belated release of the MM footage .
That only advances in forensics enabled charges to be finally laid .
it would have been a hard sell for the Coppers to start looking at Pencil with a completely fresh slate ten years after the crimes..not that much older than the victims .long term gainfully employed, home owner, doting father of a young daughter. , actively involved in the community...your senior officer would laugh you out the door...unless you took a closer look...kudos and thanks to whoever did.
The prosecutions focus on the accuseds interest in underwear makes sense if items not belonging to the victims were found at crime scenes and whoever it was that committed the Huntingdale series of attacks already has form for BYO undies .and leaving them with a victim. Continuation?
Might prove to be whoever did its eventual undoing.
Getting to the pointy end now. Bring it on. Justice for those innocent young girls having a night out and only trying to get home.
Badge666,
Many thanks for saying it how it is!
 

Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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My thoughts are the cross-dressing is crucial to the whole case. I truly “think” the victims were found with something like women’s clothing or lingerie (just my thoughts/a hunch).

As Pencil went undetected for many years, he had the opportunity to commit an assortment of crimes. Once arrested, they showed photos of him and offhand 275 people contacted Crime Stoppers. Some of those reports probably included people claiming to know something or had seen him do something. Yet the prosecution is concentrating on incidents which include; a fetish for women’s clothing, locating fingerprints or detection of DNA – scientific evidence.

Surely, someone recognized the mystery man in JRs video. If Pencil was recognized Macro would have seen he had a prior, assault 1990. Although it was actually a sexual assault wasn’t, he just charged with assault, and ordered to attend a sex-program for two years. If he was overlooked – why would he have been overlooked?

Maybe those that recognized Pencil in JRs video thought "Oh, no it couldn't be him, he's so nice".
 

Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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Does anyone know who and what the Macro team consists of? Approximately how many in the team and their backgrounds? Were any of the detectives considered specialists, sought from overseas?

Will there be any type of investigation into why the "accused" CSK wasn’t caught beforehand, why it took so long?

The reason I ask - a couple of years ago, I watched the movie about Belanglo state forest backpacker’s killings where a team of detectives attempted to apprehend the person responsible for the murders (IM). It was such a good insight into how that team worked and how the head person wouldn’t listen to the other team members. It seemed the head of the team’s aim was to be the one who caught the perp. hence obtain all the glory for his capture – it certainly wasn’t pats on the back for everyone. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ivan+milat+movie+detective&&view=detail&mid=F6193F2EABD5FA58343AF6193F2EABD5FA58343A&&FORM=VRDGAR
 

petedavo

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2008
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Up is down, black is White, regarding anything we have been told about this tragically mis managed case over the years. WAPOL have blatantly deceived the public with the LW we " have our man " fiasco and the strident denials that victims bodies were definitely not mutilated amongst other falsehoods.
Prior to the arrest of Pencil Boy I posted my opinion on this, and another well known forum that the degree of police ineptitude in the Claremont Serial Killing Case when revealed would be enough "to cause a crisis in Public confidence in the Western Australian Police Force" . I stand by those comments and believe we still have not been told even the half of it.
Some respected posters who should know better are talking as though a conviction in this case is a foregone conclusion . IMO it certainly is not, and evidence regarding DNA and DNA testing is going to be the deciding factor.
A speculative case could be made that despite what we have been told, WAPOL were keeping half an eye open on this bloke from around 2008 after the Schramm review, and belated release of the MM footage .
That only advances in forensics enabled charges to be finally laid .
it would have been a hard sell for the Coppers to start looking at Pencil with a completely fresh slate ten years after the crimes..not that much older than the victims .long term gainfully employed, home owner, doting father of a young daughter. , actively involved in the community...your senior officer would laugh you out the door...unless you took a closer look...kudos and thanks to whoever did.
The prosecutions focus on the accuseds interest in underwear makes sense if items not belonging to the victims were found at crime scenes and whoever it was that committed the Huntingdale series of attacks already has form for BYO undies .and leaving them with a victim. Continuation?
Might prove to be whoever did its eventual undoing.
Getting to the pointy end now. Bring it on. Justice for those innocent young girls having a night out and only trying to get home.
Nothing is ever a foregone conclusion, until it's proven in court. Except, when a hand drawn picture of a sidchrome spanner and a battered pig's head is used in evidence.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 

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Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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If he gets off the charges, he may opt to relocate out of the state – for his own safety.

Would Telstra have abolished his job or backfilled it, with a temporary placement? He may have accessed his super, to pay for the lawyer, but to do that, I think he’d need to resign from his job? He was at Telstra for a long time and probably had ongoing tenure, not a contract.
 

Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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Even if they suspect it is him I reckon they'd be very apprehensive to bring it up in court.

A) It's going to make them look bad
B) It's going to be easy to refute based on the quality of vision.
I would think the prosecution will have to show the footage and explain that it’s unknown who the mystery man was. Perhaps they might name people (2008 witnesses) who contacted Crime Stoppers, back then, naming Pencil Boy as a suspect. If someone did recognize him. They must have received lots of calls and at least interviewed the suspects of multiple reportings.

Perhaps the first wife may testify that after the footage was shown, she’d contacted Crime Stoppers, reporting it was possibly PB. It's possible that report wasn’t taken seriously because she was an ex. These are just my thoughts.
 

craigos

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I would think the prosecution will have to show the footage and explain that it’s unknown who the mystery man was. Perhaps they might name people (2008 witnesses) who contacted Crime Stoppers, back then, naming Pencil Boy as a suspect. If someone did recognize him. They must have received lots of calls and at least interviewed the suspects of multiple reportings.

Perhaps the first wife may testify that after the footage was shown, she’d contacted Crime Stoppers, reporting it was possibly PB. It's possible that report wasn’t taken seriously because she was an ex. These are just my thoughts.
I know that WAPOL are taking it to a whole new level of incompetence with this investigation but even then, I highly doubt there were multiple witnesses saying the BRE was Mystery Man and if his ex had called with even more details, they'd have checked him out thoroughly for sure.

They released the footage a decade after the events, it was a hail mary, there was no prime suspect (like there was in the early days of the investigation) and if anyones name had been mentioned more than once it would have been looked at.

I also feel that information would have leaked by now if it was the case.
 

Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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I know that WAPOL are taking it to a whole new level of incompetence with this investigation but even then, I highly doubt there were multiple witnesses saying the BRE was Mystery Man and if his ex had called with even more details, they'd have checked him out thoroughly for sure.

They released the footage a decade after the events, it was a hail mary, there was no prime suspect (like there was in the early days of the investigation) and if anyones name had been mentioned more than once it would have been looked at.

I also feel that information would have leaked by now if it was the case.
Yes you would think the information would have leaked out by now.

Perhaps where they failed was within the process of elimination. When the MM footage was released Crime Stoppers would have been inundated with phone calls and passed that information to Macro. The Macro team would have then scrutinized the information, discussed it and slowly, sifted through until they had eliminated all the MM reporting’s. Macro would have then discussed which men fitted their rigid criteria.

Knowing that Macro were reluctant to give away any information they probably didn’t ask if the suspect was known to have worn women’s clothing but rather Macro may have relied on the person reporting to raise the subject – perhaps Macro hinted at the matter.

My thoughts are that the criteria was so rigid that even if someone did happen to report BRE it would have been overlooked, but these are only my thoughts.

Did the wife/wives know that he liked to cross-dress? Other people did, because he was teased at school.
 

shellyg

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Dec 27, 2016
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My thoughts are that the criteria was so rigid that even if someone did happen to report BRE it would have been overlooked, but these are only my thoughts.
MACRO was hooked in to HOLMES - Home Office Large Major Enquiry System - via a dedicated telephone line direct to the UK. The mass of information that was coming in was put into HOLMES for processing and matching, nothing should have been missed.

HOLMES was used for the Gerard Ross inquiry as well.


SELECT COMMITTEE ON CRIME PREVENTION TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE TAKEN AT PERTH TUESDAY, 14 APRIL 1998 Mr Nicholls (Chairman) Mr Barron-Sullivan Mr Ripper (ah haaa) Mrs Roberts Mrs van de Klashorst

"Crimes of concern are those that worry the community which include burglary, robbery and graffiti. However, two murder inquiries have been highlighted. The Macro task force is carrying out the Claremont investigations, is investigating the Gerard Ross murder at Rockingham. We use task force approaches for crimes. HOLMES is an acronym for Home Office Large Major Enquiries Systems which was developed after the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry in which several policing agencies were involved. We have adopted and adapted that to our own use."

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/commit.nsf/(Evidence+Lookup+by+Com+ID)/11DAB77B86BA591B48257831003AFF65/$file/crime14.pdf
 

Likeamystery

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MACRO was hooked in to HOLMES - Home Office Large Major Enquiry System - via a dedicated telephone line direct to the UK. The mass of information that was coming in was put into HOLMES for processing and matching, nothing should have been missed.

HOLMES was used for the Gerard Ross inquiry as well.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON CRIME PREVENTION TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE TAKEN AT PERTH TUESDAY, 14 APRIL 1998 Mr Nicholls (Chairman) Mr Barron-Sullivan Mr Ripper (ah haaa) Mrs Roberts Mrs van de Klashorst

"Crimes of concern are those that worry the community which include burglary, robbery and graffiti. However, two murder inquiries have been highlighted. The Macro task force is carrying out the Claremont investigations, is investigating the Gerard Ross murder at Rockingham. We use task force approaches for crimes. HOLMES is an acronym for Home Office Large Major Enquiries Systems which was developed after the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry in which several policing agencies were involved. We have adopted and adapted that to our own use."


http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/commit.nsf/(Evidence+Lookup+by+Com+ID)/11DAB77B86BA591B48257831003AFF65/$file/crime14.pdf
That's excellent shellyg. I suppose once the data was entered, they were able to produce tailored reports on specific criteria. Here's the Oxford Reference, if anyone's interested.
 
Last edited:

BFew

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Mar 5, 2017
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It's a little bit disconcerting that when you google news search "Bradley Edwards",
the results include very recent articles mentioning the other Bradley Edwards in the news this week,
the attorney for some of Jeffrey Epstein's accusers/victims.
 

Likeamystery

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Aug 11, 2019
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The judge is probably currently in the best position to make an early call on that question.
Or some real psychics (if they actually exist).
Are there any psychics on here?

All psychics probably predict, he’s in for a very long legal battle, has an impregnated image of metal bars and has an overall feeling of embarrassment.
 

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