Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

Eaglette01

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Likeamystery: I guess a "microchip" inserted into everyone at birth like a tracking device would solve everything :) Time frame facts.

I would have liked to have had one - to see when my path crossed paths with BRE. Imagine getting a print out of that !

Judge has already disallowed evidence from 1) ED @ her house of a 13yo BRE in her bedroom!; he was snooping through her drawers -..... "not relevant".
Judge disallowed the friend being driving to a unknown "bush location"...... "not relevant" - BRE didnt harm her, kept on driving.
Judge disallowed some of EB evidence.... EB said BRE could not remember the HH incident..
open air fetishes ? People assume Telstra knew - his first wife EB assumed too..... I just have more and more and more questions.
 

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Likeamystery

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Likeamystery: I guess a "microchip" inserted into everyone at birth like a tracking device would solve everything :) Time frame facts.

I would have liked to have had one - to see when my path crossed paths with BRE. Imagine getting a print out of that !

Judge has already disallowed evidence from 1) ED @ her house of a 13yo BRE in her bedroom!; he was snooping through her drawers -..... "not relevant".
Judge disallowed the friend being driving to a unknown "bush location"...... "not relevant" - BRE didnt harm her, kept on driving.
Judge disallowed some of EB evidence.... EB said BRE could not remember the HH incident..
open air fetishes ? People assume Telstra knew - his first wife EB assumed too..... I just have more and more and more questions.
Judge disallowed some of EB evidence.... EB said BRE could not remember the HH incident..
open air fetishes ? People assume Telstra knew - his first wife EB assumed too.....

I'm not sure what the HH incident was and the open air fetishes too
 

Eaglette01

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I don't even know if an "open air fetish" is even a thing either............ rather than "indoors" ?

HH is the Hollywood Hospital (HH) criminal charge (BRE pleaded guilty); BRE attacked a social worker at Hollywood Hospital in May 1990, while he was in the building carrying out work in his role as a technician with Telstra.
BRE had inquired with the woman about using the toilet, before bursting out and attacking her from behind, placing a piece of material over her mouth and dragging her backwards.
The woman managed to struggle, kicking Mr Edwards hard, lost a shoe - managing to escape from BRE grip !!
Security officers detained Mr Edwards and when police arrived they found cable ties in his pocket, Ms Barbagallo said.
Mr Edwards pleaded guilty to common assault and was sentenced to two years’ probation the following month, and he kept his job at Telstra.

I'm unsure if the Managers/Supervisors/Head of Telstra knew of this event, it seems some of his work colleagues knew though. BRE's first wife assumed his workplace knew..... her evidence is that BRE told her he could not recall the incident and was reluctant to talk about it - although later he did say he stayed in the bathroom at HH until his arrest.

I assume bathroom means toilet
 
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Likeamystery

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I don't even know if an "open air fetish" is even a thing either............ rather than "indoors" ?

HH is the Hollywood Hospital (HH) criminal charge (BRE pleaded guilty); BRE attacked a social worker at Hollywood Hospital in May 1990, while he was in the building carrying out work in his role as a technician with Telstra.
BRE had inquired with the woman about using the toilet, before bursting out and attacking her from behind, placing a piece of material over her mouth and dragging her backwards.
The woman managed to struggle, kicking Mr Edwards hard, lost a shoe - managing to escape from BRE grip !!
Security officers detained Mr Edwards and when police arrived they found cable ties in his pocket, Ms Barbagallo said.
Mr Edwards pleaded guilty to common assault and was sentenced to two years’ probation the following month, and he kept his job at Telstra.

I'm unsure if the Managers/Supervisors/Head of Telstra knew of this event, it seems some of his work colleagues knew though. BRE's first wife assumed his workplace knew..... her evidence is that BRE told her he could not recall the incident and was reluctant to talk about it - although later he did say he stayed in the bathroom at HH until his arrest.

I assume bathroom means toilet
I’d think after the incident BRE would have been escorted to the nearest police station – Stirling Hwy, Claremont. Surly the management at HH would have notified Telstra not to send that particular technician again, so someone at Telstra would have known about the incident.

It’s likely BRE kept the incident quiet – very secretive. The Telstra vehicle would have needed to be picked up.

Perhaps after the incident Telstra found BRE another area to work. Couldn’t have him causing grief on the job.
 
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I’d think after the incident BRE would have been escorted to the nearest police station – Stirling Hwy, Claremont. Surly the management at HH would have notified Telstra not to send that particular technician again, so someone at Telstra would have known about the incident.

It’s likely BRE kept the incident quiet – very secretive. The Telstra vehicle would have needed to be picked up.

Perhaps after the incident Telstra found BRE another area to work. Couldn’t have him causing grief on the job.
I think it will depend on whether or not the right procedures were followed or if corners were cut. I presume his statement to police would go along the lines of 'I was instructed by my supervisor to attend to a fault that had been reported in the system at Hollywood Hospital .....'

The police should have verified if this was true or not thus alerting at least one more senior management staff to what had happened.

How could he not recall attempting to assault the woman, even more so the fact that she beat him off, being held in the toilet, being arrested and charged, attending court, being sentenced and being on probation for 2 yrs which if procedures were followed would include attending the parole office on a weekly, monthly, 3 monthly time frame.
 

BFew

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I presume his statement to police would go along the lines of 'I was instructed by my supervisor to attend to a fault that had been reported in the system at Hollywood Hospital'

The police should have verified if this was true or not thus alerting at least one more senior management staff to what had happened.
The Police would have likely first verified with Hollywood Hospital that Telstra was meant to be working there that day, and possibly if BRE worked there regularly on behalf of Telstra.

Hollywood Hospital might have provided Police with copies of documents from Telstra to Hollywood Hospital that named BRE (and possibly others) as the Telstra techs that would work onsite at the hospital when required, and a communication or document that confirmed the reason why BRE was onsite that day at the hospital.

I would hope that these documents would list, at least to ensure that a Hollywood Hospital building access pass was available to BRE upon each onsite visit, and that the hospital Security/Admin that managed building access passes, required BRE to front up with photo ID each time he was required to enter the hospital.
And that Security/Admin were expecting him on each onsite visit from him form documents provided to them ahead of each visit.

Also, BRE would have likely had a Telstra ID with him (possibly a Telstra worker photo ID?).

All of which might have caused the Police to not require confirmation from Telstra, that BRE was required/authorised by Telstra to be onsite that day.
 

Likeamystery

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It might be that during the 1990s the western suburbs was part of BREs jurisdiction. I'm not sure how Telstra's work teams operate but perhaps he was responsible for the maintenance there. Perhaps, through work he became comfortable with the area. Being responsible for break-downs would make a perfect alibi - he was in the area, after hours for work. He'd be overlooked as a possible suspect.
 

Eaglette01

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The Police would have likely first verified with Hollywood Hospital that Telstra was meant to be working there that day, and possibly if BRE worked there regularly on behalf of Telstra.

Hollywood Hospital might have provided Police with copies of documents from Telstra to Hollywood Hospital that named BRE (and possibly others) as the Telstra techs that would work onsite at the hospital when required, and a communication or document that confirmed the reason why BRE was onsite that day at the hospital.

I would hope that these documents would list, at least to ensure that a Hollywood Hospital building access pass was available to BRE upon each onsite visit, and that the hospital Security/Admin that managed building access passes, required BRE to front up with photo ID each time he was required to enter the hospital.
And that Security/Admin were expecting him on each onsite visit from him form documents provided to them ahead of each visit.

Also, BRE would have likely had a Telstra ID with him (possibly a Telstra worker photo ID?).

All of which might have caused the Police to not require confirmation from Telstra, that BRE was required/authorised by Telstra to be onsite that day.
Hollywood Hospital during daylight hours is open for all manner of comings and goings. One could still wander all corridors without being challenged. 1990 I doubt a "building access" pass would be necessary/required. Tech would walk on in - attend to the naughty switchboard and walk out. Seems at HH BRE couldn't fix the system/switchboard on this particulary day and this caused BRE angst - and the Social worker used "Terse Talk" (BRE version and BRE snapped).

2 police would just take a Statement from the victim (she doesnt have to attend court - because he pleads Guilty) - a Statement from the arresting Security Guard at HH (he doesnt attend court either due to Guilty plea) - a Statement from BRE - and WAPOL will be thrilled he pleads Guilty - that's the end for the cops. Type up the brief for the Court - and, leave it for the Judge. If he had an order to attend a Sex Offenders course..... he did that and all kept his nose clean for 2 years = All sorted.

I would have done the same in 1990 - call Telstra to fix my switchboard immediately (Adelaide Terrace) - normally I'd say - send Brian not Jeff (he's dopey) - and, say "its broken again - like last week - and, I need it fixed now! when a Tech couldnt fix it in 10mins I'd say - FFS send somebody who knows what they are doing! - send me Brian and hurry I've a business to run!

Regardless; BRE pleaded GUILTY to this HH crime.

And, it's mightly close MO style (propensity evidence) to a grab a female from the back and gag the mouth, drag and attack........ KK (his DNA)...... and SS JR & CG (DNA)
 
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Likeamystery

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From what I can gather Macro being such an isolated/secure team weren’t in a position to take input from WAPOL support staff who knew the various database systems. Macro Management/hierarchy may have sourced who they considered to be the best staff but were they local to Perth. Presumably Macro detectives had support staff who gathered information for them.

Thinking about the Hollywood Hospital (HH) crime – May 1990. Monash Av, Nedlands is the next suburb east of Claremont.

Below are my thoughts as to why the HH crime may have been overlooked. Can anyone else think of any examples.
  • Support staff asked to source information dating back 5 years (from March 1996 SS disappearance). Hence picked up the KK rape (1995), missed the HH crime (May 1990).
  • Support staff didn’t realize HH/Nedlands was next to Claremont. Management specifically asked to search for Claremont crimes.
  • Presumed Hollywood was an actual suburb (not in western suburbs).
  • Information was migrated to an inactive data base – data base didn’t get searched
  • Crime registered under secondment company’s name instead of Telstra
When the Schramm review took place (late 2004) did, they review Macro’s existing information. If Scramm didn’t compile the information from scratch, could it be possible they also overlooked the HH crime for the same reason.

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremont-serial-killings/claremont-serial-killings-police-told-of-telstra-vehicle-clues-15-years-ago-says-former-top-cop-karl-ocallaghan-ng-b881146331z

A bombshell twist has emerged in the case of the Claremont serial killings after a former police commissioner said evidence of a Telstra vehicle stalking young women was identified in 2004 — more than a decade before a Telstra employee was arrested over the crimes.

The 50-year-old was arrested and charged in 2016 after a fresh investigation of the unsolved serial killings and is due to face trial in July. Stunning allegations about a Telstra connection to the case surfaced publicly for the first time during a pre-trial submissions hearing last month when prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo listed six occasions when the activities of a Telstra vehicle and its male driver were reported between 1995 and 1997.
 

Likeamystery

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Hollywood Hospital is near Hollywood High School. From what I’ve read JR attended Hollywood HS, could it be possible BRE had seen JR back in her senior years at high school.

Estimate JR born 1973 – aged 17 in 1990
 

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BonzaRam

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From what I can gather Macro being such an isolated/secure team weren’t in a position to take input from WAPOL support staff who knew the various database systems. Macro Management/hierarchy may have sourced who they considered to be the best staff but were they local to Perth. Presumably Macro detectives had support staff who gathered information for them.

Thinking about the Hollywood Hospital (HH) crime – May 1990. Monash Av, Nedlands is the next suburb east of Claremont.

Below are my thoughts as to why the HH crime may have been overlooked. Can anyone else think of any examples.
  • Support staff asked to source information dating back 5 years (from March 1996 SS disappearance). Hence picked up the KK rape (1995), missed the HH crime (May 1990).
  • Support staff didn’t realize HH/Nedlands was next to Claremont. Management specifically asked to search for Claremont crimes.
  • Presumed Hollywood was an actual suburb (not in western suburbs).
  • Information was migrated to an inactive data base – data base didn’t get searched
  • Crime registered under secondment company’s name instead of Telstra
When the Schramm review took place (late 2004) did, they review Macro’s existing information. If Scramm didn’t compile the information from scratch, could it be possible they also overlooked the HH crime for the same reason.

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremont-serial-killings/claremont-serial-killings-police-told-of-telstra-vehicle-clues-15-years-ago-says-former-top-cop-karl-ocallaghan-ng-b881146331z

A bombshell twist has emerged in the case of the Claremont serial killings after a former police commissioner said evidence of a Telstra vehicle stalking young women was identified in 2004 — more than a decade before a Telstra employee was arrested over the crimes.

The 50-year-old was arrested and charged in 2016 after a fresh investigation of the unsolved serial killings and is due to face trial in July. Stunning allegations about a Telstra connection to the case surfaced publicly for the first time during a pre-trial submissions hearing last month when prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo listed six occasions when the activities of a Telstra vehicle and its male driver were reported between 1995 and 1997.
Do you think tunnel vision, misinformation and misconduct by certain macro task force investigators could be a possible reason for certain things for being overlooked at the time?

 

Likeamystery

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Do you think tunnel vision, misinformation and misconduct by certain macro task force investigators could be a possible reason for certain things for being overlooked at the time?

Yes I can imagine tunnel vision! At one time Macro had 100 detectives (10 teams of 10). Early in the investigation, LW came under the radar - cleared in 2008. I suppose they scrutinized a backlog of crimes, perhaps went through boxes of information.

 

Krusty Crab

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after SS went missing, i doubt the cops profiled previous crime in the area. there was nothing to suggest this was linked to any previous crimes, they just had one missing person. JR then goes missing. given that JR disappeared very close to where SS went from, there probably would of been a quick check for recent crime in the immediate area against patrons of the night spots. anything that got turned up would of been looked at. most time would of been spent looking for further connections between SS and JR than just the location, and the details of the linked location they went missing from. when CG vanished things would of been stepped up a notch. you now have what looks like 3 abductions from the same area in the same fashion. MM becomes a focus, time and effort is spent hanging around the area at night time, checking cars and what not. the area becomes saturated with police in the hope of being on the spot when something happens. time is now spent researching the victims for correlations, talking to anyone who was in the area at that time, looking at people with reasons to be in the area with out raising suspicion (taxi drivers/security), and looking for any common thread that could provide a lead.

Once the leads start drying up and the trail starts going cold, an expanded search for lead up crimes in the surrounding suburbs should of been done. this would of brought up the KK rape. as this attacker was a stranger to the victim, search back further to look for possible linked lead up crimes. find HH attack. Looking at HH attack would of given them BRE, and a quick search would of shown the cluster of early lead up crimes in huntingdale radiating from his house. compare hand print from the huntingdale crimes to BRE fingerprints from HH attack. you would now have a main suspect to investigate, and look into linking him to huntingdale, HH, and KK. instead we had police tunnel vision on LW with the "we've got our man" mantra. luckily when LW was cleared we had advanced DNA tech which was used to link the kimono to the claremont victims.
 

Krusty Crab

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if the search for lead up crimes was done and BRE was found in the early days of the investigation, where would we be now? the hand print would show him being involved in huntingdale. he already admitted guilt and was sentenced for HH. given the KK victim was blindfolded, unlikely she would be able to identify him. DNA was still in its infancy, so a DNA test would show that BRE could of been the KK attacker, but wouldn't say it was definitely him. by this stage no DNA had been recovered from the bodies of JR or CG, so no definitive link back to BRE. he would of been charged with huntingdale offences, and those cases would of been closed, so the kimono wouldn't be tested later on with advanced DNA technology. KK attack and claremont murders would still be unsolved. the police would possibly compare the KK samples during a cold case review and they would link to claremont, however they wouldn't have a person to compare to. if they then looked at BRE because of HH attack, they would need some good evidence to get a court order for DNA.
 

Eaglette01

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^ when the word "luck" on this CSK case comes up - It just makes me want to spew!

Cops Job - they have 1 job - 101 - Just search "who has attended a Sex Offenders course" 1996 - in the last 10 years - start there with friggin names and interview every single person! eg "what "did they go down for" - lets look into them" "have we got a pattern" BRE's name would have been on that list.

And, yes SOR Thornlie/Huntingdale/Maddington/Gosnells there were "clusters of break and enters" "peeping Toms" "missing clothes from clotheslines" A complete Cluster F*** SOR cops have a lot of explaining to do after this trial as well as the whole of the Macro Task Force.

Evidence from the victim from HH will be interesting in Nov; Did she ever put forth BRE's name or called Macro?
 
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Krusty Crab

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^ when the word "luck" on this CSK case comes up - It just makes me want to spew!

Cops Job - they have 1 job - 101 - Just search "who has attended a Sex Offenders course" 1996 - in the last 10 years - start there with friggin names and interview every single person! eg "what "did they go down for" - lets look into them" "have we got a pattern" BRE's name would have been on that list.

And, yes SOR Thornlie/Huntingdale/Maddington/Gosnells there were "clusters of break and enters" "peeping Toms" "missing clothes from clotheslines" A complete Cluster F*** SOR cops have a lot of explaining to do after this trial as well as the whole of the Macro Task Force.

Evidence from the victim from HH will be interesting in Nov; Did she ever put forth BRE's name or called Macro?
why would the HH victim put forward BRE name? her case had already been finalized. the cops already knew who BRE was. She would of had no reason to believe he was involved in anything else. the general idea at the time was that it was a taxi driver. in my opinion she had no reason to think about putting his name forward.
 

Likeamystery

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^ when the word "luck" on this CSK case comes up - It just makes me want to spew!

Cops Job - they have 1 job - 101 - Just search "who has attended a Sex Offenders course" 1996 - in the last 10 years - start there with friggin names and interview every single person! eg "what "did they go down for" - lets look into them" "have we got a pattern" BRE's name would have been on that list.

And, yes SOR Thornlie/Huntingdale/Maddington/Gosnells there were "clusters of break and enters" "peeping Toms" "missing clothes from clotheslines" A complete Cluster F*** SOR cops have a lot of explaining to do after this trial as well as the whole of the Macro Task Force.

Evidence from the victim from HH will be interesting in Nov; Did she ever put forth BRE's name or called Macro?
Most of the Huntingdale incidents were on main roads, which were fairly new back in 1987/88. The Gosnells police station (GPS) is responsible for Huntingdale. Does anyone find it odd that the accused wasn’t arrested until a crime was committed outside the GPS’ jurisdiction? Could it be possible that GPS officers knew who he was back in 1987/88 but didn’t have enough to charge him. It wasn’t until the Nedlands crime was committed that the accused was arrested and charged.

Most of the 1987/88 WAPOL officers have probably retired now. I doubt Macro have ever contacted them to ask what happened back then.

After the court case WAPOL won’t be able to stop women coming forward with their stories. Possibly, WAPOL will say they were looking for a few rapists back then and the woman has confused him with another perpetrator.
 

Eaglette01

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Coming up - soon

19 Nov 2019 if the Trial starts on time........ 61 days time.

BRE DOB
:
07 December 1968
07 December 2019 BRE will be 51yo but, it is a Saturday - so he won't be sitting in the Supreme Court that day.

BRE ARRESTED:
22 December 2016
22 December 2019 BRE will have spent 3 years on remand firstly at Hakea and now solitary confinement at Casuarina Prison since earlier this year after the Pencil incident.

25 December 2019 - BRE's 4th Christmas Day in jail :christmastree::christmastree::christmastree::christmastree:

Legal Aid is paying for his representation (our Taxpayers money)
 
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Likeamystery

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if the search for lead up crimes was done and BRE was found in the early days of the investigation, where would we be now? the hand print would show him being involved in huntingdale. he already admitted guilt and was sentenced for HH. given the KK victim was blindfolded, unlikely she would be able to identify him. DNA was still in its infancy, so a DNA test would show that BRE could of been the KK attacker, but wouldn't say it was definitely him. by this stage no DNA had been recovered from the bodies of JR or CG, so no definitive link back to BRE. he would of been charged with huntingdale offences, and those cases would of been closed, so the kimono wouldn't be tested later on with advanced DNA technology. KK attack and claremont murders would still be unsolved. the police would possibly compare the KK samples during a cold case review and they would link to claremont, however they wouldn't have a person to compare to. if they then looked at BRE because of HH attack, they would need some good evidence to get a court order for DNA.
Could it be that the HH crime was looked at and simply disregarded - due to length of time (5/6 years beforehand) or was BRE questioned about the crime - embarrassing to admit they let him go. Something must have put the wind up him, SKs don't usually suddenly stop killing.

In 1997 LW came under scrutiny. Does that mean Macro was scaled down to a handful of detectives watching his movements. As the killings stopped in 1997, it does explain the tunnel vision. How would the CSK know they were watching LW - it wasn't announced at that stage.
 

BonzaRam

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Could it be that the HH crime was looked at and simply disregarded - due to length of time (5/6 years beforehand) or was BRE questioned about the crime - embarrassing to admit they let him go. Something must have put the wind up him, SKs don't usually suddenly stop killing.

In 1997 LW came under scrutiny. Does that mean Macro was scaled down to a handful of detectives watching his movements. As the killings stopped in 1997, it does explain the tunnel vision. How would the CSK know they were watching LW - it wasn't announced at that stage.
"SKs don't usually suddenly stop killing."

Umm... yes they do. There are plenty of examples of where serial killers have stopped for years or even decades, only to be caught by advancements in technology at a later time. Often an event in their lives changes the direction they are on. That could be something as simple as entering a new relationship or maybe the birth of a child etc... or they get caught...

The definition of a serial killers is based on the fact that they have cooling off periods between victims. It is what seperates them from random murderers, spree killers, mass killers etc, so in fact when you think about it they do just stop.

A couple of better known examples

Joseph DeAngelo - caught 30 years after his last victim
Dennis Rader (BTK) - caught 15 years after his last victim

It would appear, based on what evidence we know of, that it is also possible the alleged killer, BRE, used auto-eroticism (dressing up in womens clothing and tossing off into sandwich bags) as a substitute, much like BTK did.

Here is an interesting read on the subject,

 

Likeamystery

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"SKs don't usually suddenly stop killing."

Umm... yes they do. There are plenty of examples of where serial killers have stopped for years or even decades, only to be caught by advancements in technology at a later time. Often an event in their lives changes the direction they are on. That could be something as simple as entering a new relationship or maybe the birth of a child etc... or they get caught...

The definition of a serial killers is based on the fact that they have cooling off periods between victims. It is what seperates them from random murderers, spree killers, mass killers etc, so in fact when you think about it they do just stop.

A couple of better known examples

Joseph DeAngelo - caught 30 years after his last victim
Dennis Rader (BTK) - caught 15 years after his last victim

It would appear, based on what evidence we know of, that it is also possible the alleged killer, BRE, used auto-eroticism (dressing up in womens clothing and tossing off into sandwich bags) as a substitute, much like BTK did.

Here is an interesting read on the subject,

Thanks for the link - I'll read it later. I'm aware of the sandwich bags, any ideas what he intended to do with them? LOL
 
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Power Raid

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Coming up - soon

19 Nov 2019 if the Trial starts on time........ 61 days time.

BRE DOB
:
07 December 1968
07 December 2019 BRE will be 51yo but, it is a Saturday - so he won't be sitting in the Supreme Court that day.

BRE ARRESTED:
22 December 2016
22 December 2019 BRE will have spent 3 years on remand firstly at Hakea and now solitary confinement at Casuarina Prison since earlier this year after the Pencil incident.

25 December 2019 - BRE's 4th Christmas Day in jail :christmastree::christmastree::christmastree::christmastree:

Legal Aid is paying for his representation (our Taxpayers money)
And not legally due compensation if found not guilty
 

BonzaRam

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And not legally due compensation if found not guilty
Compensation per se is not available but a precedent was set in the High Court about 5 years ago in NSW where a woman (Roseanne Beckett) wrongfully convicted was able to sue the investigators for misconduct of the investigation, it also left the door open for suing prosecutors for malicious prosecution.
 

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