Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Eaglette01]

Article on Fibre evidence:

Spinning Silk: 4 Ways to Look Closer at Fibre Evidence

Fibre analysis is quite a formidable tool in the forensic scientist’s arsenal; as another type of trace evidence, these small fragmented threads can be collected by an eagle-eyed investigator…

forensicoutreach.com

Spinning in different directions
When commencing this type of forensic analysis, you ought to be aware of the two distinct types of transfer: direct and indirect transfer. Direct transfer occurs when the suspect directly touches the victim or the crime scene: when for instance, fibres from the suspect’s hoodie might be found on a victim’s t-shirt, which demonstrates (as the name implies) contact between the two. The second, or indirect transfer, occurs where fibres from the suspect are transferred to the victim by a third party medium — where fibres from the suspect’s clothes might find themselves pressed onto a particularly aggressive guard dog. When the victim later pets the dog, these may get transferred onto the victim’s person indirectly.

On a side note; (Gerrard Ross had dog hairs on his body when found - I'm hoping surely we can find out what sort of dog it was soon) or, perhaps that too will be keep on a floor in secret by WAPOL for 20 odd years (yes I'm cynical).

(ps) Back to BRE: The Albion pub on Stirling Highway nearer Cottesloe is also a heritage looking pub IMO. BRE's brother had contacts/visiting restaurants in the area - wonder if a certain ****** Restaurant was among the "date nights". Double dating ! CH mention of being taken to a "bush location" and asked to get out of the car by BRE - her evidence regarding this was "not admissable".

 

[BlueE]

Looks like 2 taxis to me. First mention the cab they "believed" she took from Nedlands to the OBH. Necessary to rule out any innocent means of fibre transfer in her hair.
First off I thought it was said she took a cab from Shenton Park after having a drink with her mum, now Nedlands? Drove her car & left it at work maybe intending to drive home again later? Who knows.

Can't put my finger on how that can eliminate any innocent means of transfer exactly though if she was in another car from Cott to Claremont & she got to Nedlands (or Shenton Park) somehow too. Dont know if they're suggesting its the same model as BRE drove & they'll claim innocent contact via sitting briefly is unlikely to leave fibre traces on someone, thereby the fibres they found were deposited after not so innocent contact?

Or if its another car & they've tracked the source of additional fibres which they'll say were deposited hours before she disappeared? That fits better with what was said about the car previously.

When we first heard about this cab in relation to fibre evidence it did strike me as odd they'd suggest they recovered other fibres & presumably so, sitting in a car for 15mins max. Left me wondering just how easily fibres can transfer onto someone. Not only that, to still remain there all that time & through soaking rain. What if you put moisturiser on your arms before you got in, will you come out covered with them stuck fast. Or do you pick up other fibres walking past someone in the pub? Could they have been in the dirt already & transferred to her there? I suppose it depends how easily they actually do transfer & how resilient they really are. If it is that easy, how do they know they werent there for a while before she disappeared.

20 fibres total, 3 allegedly match the VS & 2 the Telstra trousers, how many from the cab & what do the rest match?
How can 5 fibres prove they were deposited in the act of abduction & murder anyway & that he was the one who did it?

The second mention of a taxi specifies a Ford Falcon & the driver indicated where the cab rank was at the Conti and where he picked her up from. That reads like it's a different cab to me. Cant see why the first cab would need to identify the cab rank in Claremont so if the 2nd didn't take the girls to Claremont from Cott, the only other option is that the cops would have known for a while at least that she left Claremont in a cab and meet with foul play elsewhere. Maybe she did get a cab back to pick up her car. Thats why she vanished

It is a bit ambiguous and the ruling was on an application to add to the evidence of witnesses they already had, so this may be why. I'll have to re read.

The Ford Falcon taxi driver was asked to identify on a map where the Conti taxi rank was, but it doesn't say he picked her up from there. He also marked a map where he picked Jane up from and clarified he drove a Ford Falcon taxi. The Nedlands to Cott may have been in his original evidence?

No information on how Jane got from OBH (Cott) to the Conti (Claremont) in these documents. Assume this will come out when the witness statements of the girls she was said to be with at the Conti are revealed.


It's seems unusual that the Fibre evidence has been submitted almost three years after the arrest, with the prosecution now saying there were shorts on the KK rape victim that have fibres on them that match other fibres found on other victims. Evidence has been allowed to be presented with defence is given until 6th Dec to provide a reply based on their own expert analysis.

 

[BFew]

CH is the same CH lady that had a section heading to herself and was mentioned in the next section of the 2019WASC282 Evidence Admissions document a few months ago.

Acknowledge Conditions Of Use - eCourts Portal

ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au

I'm calling it.

CH is definitely not the approx. 20 years older than the accused women that the accused had a reported by the media (with conflicting end dates) 3-6 months relationship with as per the 2 articles below.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/23022019.pdf

Case Against Edwards

p 42 part of the starting on front page article (p 1/30/31/42)

Case against Edwards
Some time after that murder, later in 1996, Mr Edwards had started a relationship with a woman as old as his mother, Ms Barbagallo said. The next year, in February and March 1997, the woman began putting pressure on Mr Edwards to take the relationship further. “She wants more, he’s not interested,” she said. The relationship broke up and Mr Edwards was alone again.

Trigger factors — inside the mind of Bradley Edwards

A socially awkward teenager with a fetish for women’s underwear became a man with an “obsessive sexual interest in the abduction, imprisonment and forcible rape of women”, the court was told

thewest.com.au

Claremont serial killings: Bradley Edwards trigger factors — inside the mind of an accused man
During October to December 1996 Mr Edwards had a sexual relationship with a woman 20 years his senior but ended the relationship when she wanted more from him.

 

[BlueE]

There's very very interesting witness info today that this ABC article has omitted or overlooked.

Something that is going to generate a revisit of some things that were raised in various forums over the last few years from time to time.

I'll see if you or others can find what I'm referring to in the Court document released today.

Were his little swimmers intact or just heads?

 

[one eyed spy]

Here's what the West has to say about this today in their p29-30 CSK spread.

WTF? Hes taken her from the Conti back to Cottesloe then if they reckon he was "one of the last people to see her". Bad reporting couldn't even get away with saying that about a cabby that dropped her in Cottesloe earlier in the night, then everyone at the OBH sees her, then they go to the Conti after that, walk to CBV, back to Conti. Shes on security footage out front of a pub where enough people pass her there alone to invalidate claims he was one of the last to see her. It had to have been afterwards, no?

Did any of the court documents summarise Jane Rimmer's movements for that afternoon and evening?

Have to go back and check to make sure. I dont recall any recap of her movements for the day but I have an idea that it was Carmel who stated she'd gone to The Shents to see her mum. Maybe an article of proceedings over court transcript. I cant be sure.

 

[BFew]

No information on how Jane got from OBH (Cott) to the Conti (Claremont) in these documents. Assume this will come out when the witness statements of the girls she was said to be with at the Conti are revealed.

The Crimestoppers details on Jane Rimmer's dissappearance were detailed as per the below.
Police stated that Jane and friends caught a taxi from the OBH (Cottesloe) to the Continental Hotel (Claremont)

The Claremont Murders

​

OFFENCE: Murder IR NUMBER: 300806 1200 7372 DATE OF OFFENCE: 30/08/06 Some time between 8.00 pm and 8:30 pm on Saturday the 8th of June, 1996, Jane Rimmer attended the Ocean Beach Hotel in Cottesloe. This is the same hotel that Sarah Spiers was drinking in on the night she disappeared. At that location, Jane met up with some friends. They stayed there for about an hour , before Jane and her friends caught a taxi to the Continental Hotel in Claremont arriving at about 9:30 pm. Jane and her friends stayed at the Continental Hotel until they left just after 11:30 pm, to go to Club Bay View. This is the same nightclub that Sarah Spiers was socialising at shortly before she went missing. Jane and her friends didn’t enter the nightclub, instead they decided to catch a cab to a friend's place where they would continue to party. As they got to the taxi rank near the Continental Hotel, Jane informed her friends that she didn’t want to go home and without any more explanation, she walked off back to the Continental. Her friends jumped in a cab and pulled up outside the Continental and yelled over to Jane who was standing outside to join them but she declined. At about midnight, Jane is sighted on security camera footage outside the Continental. At about a minute past midnight, a male person is seen to approach Jane and there is a brief interaction between the two before the security camera recording changes views to another part of the hotel. When the recording returns to Jane, about 28 seconds later, this man is no longer in view. This person has been named the ‘mystery man’. Despite extensive inquiries police have been unable to identify this person. Approximately 700 people were shown the footage or still photographs of the male. Jane remained outside the Continental Hotel for another 2½ minutes. At about 4 minutes past midnight , the security footage changes view and when it returns to where Jane was standing she is no longer in view. Police have several possible sightings of Jane in the immediate vicinity but nothing is confirmed. 55 days later on the 3rd of August ,1996, Jane’s body was discovered in Wellard, about 40 kilometres south of the Perth CBD. If you are the 'Mystery Man' or if you know the identity of the 'Mystery Man', Please contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000, where all calls are strictly confidential and rewards are offered​

 

[BFew]

The Crimestoppers details on Jane Rimmer's dissappearance were detailed as per the below.
Police stated that Jane and friends caught a taxi from the OBH (Cottesloe) to the Continental Hotel (Claremont)

The Claremont Murders

Just for the record,
here's the earliest version of the Crimestoppers report for Jane Rimmer that appears to be archived on Wayback Machine.

Jane Louise RIMMER - Crime Stoppers Western Australia

Jane Louise RIMMER AGE: Murder HEIGHT: BUILD: EYES: Blue HAIR: Blonde COMPLEXION: Fair Some time between 8.00 pm and 8:30 pm on Saturday the 8th of June, 1996, Jane Rimmer attended the Ocean Beach Hotel in Cottesloe. This is the same hotel that Sarah Spiers was drinking in on the night she...

web.archive.org

 

[BlueE]

WTF? Hes taken her from the Conti back to Cottesloe then if they reckon he was "one of the last people to see her". Bad reporting couldn't even get away with saying that about a cabby that dropped her in Cottesloe earlier in the night, then everyone at the OBH sees her, then they go to the Conti after that, walk to CBV, back to Conti. Shes on security footage out front of a pub where enough people pass her there alone to invalidate claims he was one of the last to see her. It had to have been afterwards, no?

Have to go back and check to make sure. I dont recall any recap of her movements for the day but I have an idea that it was Carmel who stated she'd gone to The Shents to see her mum. Maybe an article of proceedings over court transcript. I cant be sure.

Taxi driver Patrascu provides clarification of an earlier statement. He shows Conti taxi rank on a map and the location where he picked Jane up on a map as well as taxi records and confirms he drove a white Ford Falcon station wagon.

Michelle Aitkin provides a certificate relating to a taxi which is believed to have transported Jane from Nedlands to Cottesloe o evening of 8th June 1996. Relevant to confirm make and model of taxi and exclude it from being the source of fibres found in her hair.

There has to be two separate taxi journeys and like you pointed out before, it's unclear whether both of these additions to statements relate to one taxi journey or are two separate taxi rides. I do't think either relate to after she was seen at midnight at the Conti.

 

[BFew]

I dont recall any recap of her movements for the day but I have an idea that it was Carmel who stated she'd gone to The Shents to see her mum. Maybe an article of proceedings over court transcript.

Here you go it's in the 2019WASC87 document.

Acknowledge Conditions Of Use - eCourts Portal

ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au

in relation to count 7, the State case is that in the early evening of Saturday, 8 June 1996, Jane Rimmer went to the Shenton Park Hotel. She was 23 years old. Sometime after 8.00 pm, she caught a taxi from Nedlands to the Ocean Beach Hotel, Cottesloe, where she met with some friends. Sometime between 9.30 pm and 10.00 pm, she left with her friends and want to the Continental Hotel on the corner of Bayview Terrace and Gugeri Street, Claremont, where they stayed until shortly before midnight. A taxi was called and Ms Rimmer's friends got in, but she declined to join them. She was last seen by her friends on the footpath outside the entrance to the Continental Hotel on Bayview Terrace, just after midnight.

 

[BFew]

in the early evening of Saturday, 8 June 1996, Jane Rimmer went to the Shenton Park Hotel. She was 23 years old. Sometime after 8.00 pm, she caught a taxi from Nedlands to the Ocean Beach Hotel, Cottesloe

But the Shenton Park Hotel is in Shenton Park. It is not in Nedlands.

So how did Jane get from Shenton Park to Nedlands, and why go to Nedlands?

 

[Krusty Crab]

It is a bit ambiguous and the ruling was on an application to add to the evidence of witnesses they already had, so this may be why. I'll have to re read.

The Ford Falcon taxi driver was asked to identify on a map where the Conti taxi rank was, but it doesn't say he picked her up from there. He also marked a map where he picked Jane up from and clarified he drove a Ford Falcon taxi. The Nedlands to Cott may have been in his original evidence?

No information on how Jane got from OBH (Cott) to the Conti (Claremont) in these documents. Assume this will come out when the witness statements of the girls she was said to be with at the Conti are revealed.
View attachment 776718

It's seems unusual that the Fibre evidence has been submitted almost three years after the arrest, with the prosecution now saying there were shorts on the KK rape victim that have fibres on them that match other fibres found on other victims. Evidence has been allowed to be presented with defence is given until 6th Dec to provide a reply based on their own expert analysis.

What if Mr Patrascu drove the taxi that transported Jane from OBH to Claremont? this makes more sense in the layout of the paragraph than he drove her to the OBH. if he drove Jane to the OBH why would they be asking him where the taxi rank at the Conti was? more likely he drove her from the OBH and dropped her at the taxi rank in Claremont. This would explain why he was asked where the taxi rank was, and no doubt the taxi dispatch records is a listing of the fare. He marked the map to show he picked her up from OBH in a ford falcon, so it limits the chance of fibre transfer from a commodore.

 

[Eaglette01]

Reminder of another "kidnap" which was unreported by the victim from a car park opposite The Cottesloe Hotel:

I'm glad Bret Christian from The Postnewspaper kept this in the news where The West did not report.

 

[Krusty Crab]

But the Shenton Park Hotel is in Shenton Park. It is not in Nedlands.

So how did Jane get from Shenton Park to Nedlands, and why go to Nedlands?

so was it shenton hotel with mum, followed by OBH with friends and onto claremont?

 

[BFew]

What if Mr Patrascu drove the taxi that transported Jane from OBH to Claremont? this makes more sense in the layout of the paragraph than he drove her to the OBH. if he drove Jane to the OBH why would they be asking him where the taxi rank at the Conti was? more likely he drove her from the OBH and dropped her at the taxi rank in Claremont. This would explain why he was asked where the taxi rank was, and no doubt the taxi dispatch records is a listing of the fare. He marked the map to show he picked her up from OBH in a ford falcon, so it limits the chance of fibre transfer from a commodore.

I agree.
I think the West Australian newspaper today has completely ballsed up their reporting of this.

Not just Jane he transported from OBH to Claremont.
Jane and friends.

 

[BFew]

so was it shenton hotel with mum, followed by OBH with friends and onto claremont?

Nearly.
Shenton Hotel with mum. Then Shenton Hotel to somewhere in Nedlands for an as yet undisclosed reason, followed by Nedlands to OBH with friends, and then to the Continental Hotel Claremont.

 

[Kurve]

Nearly.
Shenton Hotel with mum. Then Shenton Hotel to somewhere in Nedlands for an as yet undisclosed reason, followed by Nedlands to OBH with friends, and then to the Continental Hotel Claremont.

Did she meet up with all her friends in Nedlands first and they caught a cab to the OBH?

 

[Krusty Crab]

I agree.
I think the West Australian newspaper today has completely ballsed up their reporting of this.

Not just Jane he transported from OBH to Claremont.
Jane and friends.

so they have the taxi driver that transported jane and co to claremont from the OBH in a falcon, and the records of the taxi that transported jane to the OBH from nedlands. im guessing Jane and her parents also didnt own a commodore or that could explain the fibres. oddly enough i recall a satistic from mid/late 90's that about 145 out of every 150 taxi's on the road in Australia was a falcon. commodore fibres are really starting to look good, although as mentioned by someone else prior, how long did they last on the body, and how far back does the prosecution need to look to show there was limited chance of transfer? if the fibres were in Janes hair then you would assume she washed her hair regularly, which limits transfer. if it was on a jacket, they could of been on there from the previous time she wore it?

 

[Krusty Crab]

sorry, edited post. maybe she met one of her friends at the shenton pub while there with mum. the friend then drives Jane to nedlands to drop off her car at home, and then the 2 catch a taxi to OBH?

 

[Likeamystery]

Friends with benefits, hadn’t crossed my mind.

It’s odd that CG was found partially clothed, unlike JR who was naked.

Some SKs have normal sex and then perform the killing ritual after, like what Jeffery Dahmer did (America’s gay serial killer).

In the past, people have spoken about the European restaurant in Mosman Park and the possibility of the victim’s families dining there. Could it be possible the CSK was familiar to the owners of the restaurant which was sold in 1994.

Thinking about the time-frame that BRE hooked up with someone - CG was killed at that time!

 

[Likeamystery]

MM= Mystery Man. The guy in the CCTV footage that was only allowed to be aired a good ten years ago now but now his nickname of "Mystery Man" never gets a mention in the press

I'm aware there's a video with a mystery man who walked up and spoke to JR. What I meant to say is that I have no idea who the MM is but think it's possibly RZ.

 

[BlueE]

But the Shenton Park Hotel is in Shenton Park. It is not in Nedlands.

So how did Jane get from Shenton Park to Nedlands, and why go to Nedlands?

Hard to say if they mixed up Nedlands and Shenton Park or if like OES said she drove her car and parked at her workplace, which is closer to Continetial Hotel and Cottesloe? She may have been thinking to save on taxi fare?

Nedlands Daycare Centre opposite KK cemetery. Nedlands highlighted on map.

 

[BFew]

f like OES said she drove her car and parked at her workplace, which is closer to Continetial Hotel and Cottesloe? She may have been thinking to save on taxi fare?

Nedlands Daycare Centre opposite KK cemetery.

If that's the case, then did the CSK, give Jane a lift from Claremont back to her car which was parked opposite KK cemetery?
How convenient for the CSK.
Old stomping grounds.

 

[BFew]

Did she meet up with all her friends in Nedlands first and they caught a cab to the OBH?

That was the first thought that came to my mind.

Minsky's.
Steves Hotel
Broadway Tavern
Captain Stirling Hotel?

Any I've missed?

 

[BFew]

That the Prosecution/Judge does not appear to have publicly revealed where/why Jane Rimmer was in Nedlands where she caught a taxi to the OBH,
I doubt the location would be suppressed if it was one of the Nedlands watering holes.

IMO, more likely omitted for privacy reasons because it is a home of someone connected to Jane, and not relevant to the case,
as would a bar, or a location opposite KK cemetery.

 

[Hai_Newman]

so they have the taxi driver that transported jane and co to claremont from the OBH in a falcon, and the records of the taxi that transported jane to the OBH from nedlands. im guessing Jane and her parents also didnt own a commodore or that could explain the fibres. oddly enough i recall a satistic from mid/late 90's that about 145 out of every 150 taxi's on the road in Australia was a falcon. commodore fibres are really starting to look good, although as mentioned by someone else prior, how long did they last on the body, and how far back does the prosecution need to look to show there was limited chance of transfer? if the fibres were in Janes hair then you would assume she washed her hair regularly, which limits transfer. if it was on a jacket, they could of been on there from the previous time she wore it?

This is true, Holden pursued a smaller, less roomy car due to pressure on fuel saving costs and power to weight configuration,
thus leaving the door open for the next best taxi fleet vehicle with its superior passenger room in the Falcon.