Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

Krusty Crab

Debutant
Jan 5, 2019
136
271
AFL Club
West Coast
This is true, Holden pursued a smaller, less roomy car due to pressure on fuel saving costs and power to weight configuration,
thus leaving the door open for the next best taxi fleet vehicle with its superior passenger room in the Falcon.
A lot of taxi's in the past were falcons due to cost. a falcon vs commodore is about the same in running costs give or take. rego is about the same give or take. price difference is in the cost of the car, parts, and second hand parts/motors from wreckers. why pay close to $40k for a base commodore when you could get the base falcon for low $30's?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BFew

Inn Spectre
Mar 5, 2017
705
1,671
AFL Club
West Coast
What the judge decided on in latest order was whether additional information from existing witness should be allowed because it was not disclosed by the set date.
I was not referring to the "latest order".

I was referring to the Prosecution case summary statement for Jane Rimmer's murder in an earlier order where Nedlands was mentioned, but not where in Nedlands, or what Jane was doing there. A statement that was not a statement relating to whether a specific thing in that statement was admissible or not.

Easy to get confused with so many court documents, and different versions/accounts of the same events.
Some with more info than others.

The prosecution case .....
In relation to count 7, the State case is that in the early evening of Saturday, 8 June 1996, Jane Rimmer went to the Shenton Park Hotel. She was 23 years old. Sometime after 8.00 pm, she caught a taxi from Nedlands to the Ocean Beach Hotel, Cottesloe, where she met with some friends. Sometime between 9.30 pm and 10.00 pm, she left with her friends and want to the Continental Hotel on the corner of Bayview Terrace and Gugeri Street, Claremont, where they stayed until shortly before midnight. A taxi was called and Ms Rimmer's friends got in, but she declined to join them. She was last seen by her friends on the footpath outside the entrance to the Continental Hotel on Bayview Terrace, just after midnight. Ms Rimmer's naked body was discovered in bushland off Woolcott Road, Wellard on 3 August 1996. The body was concealed with branches which were torn from nearby trees. A knife with a Telecom Australia logo was found on Woolcott Road on the same day. The cause of death could not be determined, however post‑mortem examination revealed a prominent defect to her neck, which was consistent with an injury. Later forensic examination revealed the presence of numerous fibres in Ms Rimmer's hair. The composition of some of the fibres is consistent with having come from a 1996 VS Series 1 Holden Commodore or the equivalent Toyota Lexcen. Telstra records indicate that the accused was allocated a 1996 VS Series 1 Holden Commodore station wagon (for work and private use) as at 9 June 1996. The State case is that the accused took Ms Rimmer and murdered her
 
Last edited:

GreyCrow

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2016
47,967
69,799
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, Redskins , White Sox
Taxi driver Patrascu provides clarification of an earlier statement. He shows Conti taxi rank on a map and the location where he picked Jane up on a map as well as taxi records and confirms he drove a white Ford Falcon station wagon.

Michelle Aitkin provides a certificate relating to a taxi which is believed to have transported Jane from Nedlands to Cottesloe o evening of 8th June 1996. Relevant to confirm make and model of taxi and exclude it from being the source of fibres found in her hair.

There has to be two separate taxi journeys and like you pointed out before, it's unclear whether both of these additions to statements relate to one taxi journey or are two separate taxi rides. I do't think either relate to after she was seen at midnight at the Conti.

View attachment 776751
The make and model is to exclude Ford v Commodore fibres or VS (96) over VT (97) or VR (95)
 

BFew

Inn Spectre
Mar 5, 2017
705
1,671
AFL Club
West Coast
The most detailed source of info I have seen on Jane Rimmer, is in Debbie Marshal's book - The Devil's Garden - The Claremont Serial Killings
It also appears to be the/a source of the drink with her mother at the Shenton Hotel references.


Info it has on Jane's movements that night include
(Trevor = Jane's father, Jennie = Jane's mother)

Trevor picks her up from her flat and drops her at the Shenton Hotel for a drink with her mother before she heads into Claremont by taxi with her friends.
 

Likeamystery

Senior List
Aug 11, 2019
150
193
AFL Club
West Coast
26/01/1996 - It looks as though he went to the in-laws’ place, became irate, made a scene, and the police were called, who would have made a report.

So was SSs murder charge added later, because the detailed information took time to recall and needed piecing together. Twenty-years is a long time to recall information in detail.

Australia Day 1996 was on Friday 26 January, and SS went missing on the morning of the 27th (Saturday AM).

Perhaps the Claremont Speedway (Friday evening) had a fireworks show. The accused may have been attracted to the speedway if there was a fireworks show.

When I mentioned not having an alibi, there was mention of BRE lying about why he didn't go to the friends house, the following morning, he lied about not going because he'd had an argument.
 
Last edited:

shellyg

Spec Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
7,488
11,067
No Surrender
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Perhaps the Claremont Speedway (Friday evening) had a fireworks show. The accused may have been attracted to the speedway if there was a fireworks show.

Reference to fireworks Mandurah and Rockingham here. Discrete and confined information also gets a mention, might be a clue to suppression orders.

groupA.png


When I mentioned not having an alibi, there was mention of BRE lying about why he didn't go to the friends house, the following morning, he lied about not going because he'd had an argument.
In the media thread somewhere relates to the night Ciara was taken, he told friends he didn't show up because he was trying to get back with his wife or similar.
 

Willow weeps

Team Captain
Dec 21, 2018
351
462
AFL Club
Fremantle
I've been thinking about the taxis & fibres allowed into evidence. I think, it is to prove that those fibres were not easily transported onto other people who're just getting from point A to point B like any other person using a taxi.
Now, lets say someone who owns the same make & model car abducts women & or rapes them in the same make & model vehicle. Surely there would have been struggles with each victim which would have caused rubbing of fibres while the victims tried to fight for their lives & get free. This amount of friction against the fibres would have surely been transported in the hours it took the alleged to rape & murder these girls. This would prove why it was more likely his car and not a taxi. This is just my opinion & thoughts on the matter of fibres & why the taxis are now in the evidence box. It builds a bigger & better case against the accused
 

Likeamystery

Senior List
Aug 11, 2019
150
193
AFL Club
West Coast
I've been thinking about the taxis & fibres allowed into evidence. I think, it is to prove that those fibres were not easily transported onto other people who're just getting from point A to point B like any other person using a taxi.
Now, lets say someone who owns the same make & model car abducts women & or rapes them in the same make & model vehicle. Surely there would have been struggles with each victim which would have caused rubbing of fibres while the victims tried to fight for their lives & get free. This amount of friction against the fibres would have surely been transported in the hours it took the alleged to rape & murder these girls. This would prove why it was more likely his car and not a taxi. This is just my opinion & thoughts on the matter of fibres & why the taxis are now in the evidence box. It builds a bigger & better case against the accused
Thinking of your theory, if they use the same model taxi, that taxi will be twenty-years older. I’d think there would be less carpet fibres due to wear and tear.

From memory there were 50+ fibres found on JRs stomach. It would be difficult to have that many fibres on someone’s stomach unless they were travelling face down in the car. Perhaps they're trying to prove she was lying face down.
 

BFew

Inn Spectre
Mar 5, 2017
705
1,671
AFL Club
West Coast
That the Prosecution/Judge does not appear to have publicly revealed where/why Jane Rimmer was in Nedlands where she caught a taxi to the OBH,
I doubt the location would be suppressed if it was one of the Nedlands watering holes.

IMO, more likely omitted for privacy reasons because it is a home of someone connected to Jane, and not relevant to the case,
as would a bar, or a location opposite KK cemetery.
Just to add that from what Deb Marshal (Devil's Garden book) writes in detail about Janes awareness of the dangers for young women in Perth travelling alone or with strangers, after the Sarah Spiers disappearance, I expect that Jane was driven by someone from the Shenton Hotel to a friend of hers in Nedlands, and she caught a taxi with this friend (and possibly others) to the Ocean Beach Hotel Cottesloe.
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
2,721
2,832
AFL Club
Fremantle
26/01/1996 - It looks as though he went to the in-laws’ place, became irate, made a scene, and the police were called, who would have made a report.

So was SSs murder charge added later, because the detailed information took time to recall and needed piecing together. Twenty-years is a long time to recall information in detail.

Australia Day 1996 was on Friday 26 January, and SS went missing on the morning of the 27th (Saturday AM).

Perhaps the Claremont Speedway (Friday evening) had a fireworks show. The accused may have been attracted to the speedway if there was a fireworks show.

When I mentioned not having an alibi, there was mention of BRE lying about why he didn't go to the friends house, the following morning, he lied about not going because he'd had an argument.
Didn't he sit down and have a meal with the in-laws, but didn't stay the night? Cops just checking to see if there were fireworks that night otherwise they could be remembering another night or another place.
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
2,721
2,832
AFL Club
Fremantle
The make and model is to exclude Ford v Commodore fibres or VS (96) over VT (97) or VR (95)
But do they only have one taxi driver as a witness who can say he took Jane and her friends from Cott to Claremont?

Is the other taxi evidence from Nedlands to Cott only from the dispatcher and they haven't tracked that person down to confirm what make and model car they were driving?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

GreyCrow

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2016
47,967
69,799
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, Redskins , White Sox
But do they only have one taxi driver as a witness who can say he took Jane and her friends from Cott to Claremont?

Is the other taxi evidence from Nedlands to Cott only from the dispatcher and they haven't tracked that person down to confirm what make and model car they were driving?
I dont know.I assume it is a blocking move from the prosecution ie the defence can say '' the fibres came from any number of cars - why there is evidence Jane caught a taxi - the fibres could be from that''

So having a definitive make and model can block that
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
2,721
2,832
AFL Club
Fremantle
I dont know.I assume it is a blocking move from the prosecution ie the defence can say '' the fibres came from any number of cars - why there is evidence Jane caught a taxi - the fibres could be from that''

So having a definitive make and model can block that
One driver is giving evidence his taxi was a Ford (Cott to Claremont?), but then is there only evidence from the dispatcher to say the other taxi was a Ford? It's not clear if both of these witnesses are talking about the same taxi ride.

If not do they have the other driver to give evidence that he was also driving a Ford otherwise defence will could say you can't prove it wasn't a Holden and the fibres came Jane had in her hair came from that.
 

Likeamystery

Senior List
Aug 11, 2019
150
193
AFL Club
West Coast
Didn't he sit down and have a meal with the in-laws, but didn't stay the night? Cops just checking to see if there were fireworks that night otherwise they could be remembering another night or another place.
I only saw that he'd gone to the in-laws place and someone (not mentioning any names) wouldn't go to the fireworks with him.
 

Likeamystery

Senior List
Aug 11, 2019
150
193
AFL Club
West Coast
One driver is giving evidence his taxi was a Ford (Cott to Claremont?), but then is there only evidence from the dispatcher to say the other taxi was a Ford? It's not clear if both of these witnesses are talking about the same taxi ride.

If not do they have the other driver to give evidence that he was also driving a Ford otherwise defence will could say you can't prove it wasn't a Holden and the fibres came Jane had in her hair came from that.
Ages ago I watched a proper documentary about car fibres and they advised car fibres have a certain uniqueness, and forensics can prove what types of vehicle they come from. It wasn't something I saw on CSI or Law and Order, nothing like that.
 

Krusty Crab

Debutant
Jan 5, 2019
136
271
AFL Club
West Coast
One driver is giving evidence his taxi was a Ford (Cott to Claremont?), but then is there only evidence from the dispatcher to say the other taxi was a Ford? It's not clear if both of these witnesses are talking about the same taxi ride.

If not do they have the other driver to give evidence that he was also driving a Ford otherwise defence will could say you can't prove it wasn't a Holden and the fibres came Jane had in her hair came from that.
they have the taxi details for the trip from nedlands to obh. having the taxi number would give them the car rego and also the make/model. perhaps that driver is now deceased, or no longer in australia. they also have the taxi driver from the obh to claremont trip, who will testify that he was driving a falcon. neither trip was in a commodore
 

shellyg

Spec Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
7,488
11,067
No Surrender
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Wow ... ??????

Also on Monday, Mr Yovich told the court he had a number of signed admissions by the accused.

What these admissions are, and what aspects of the case they relate to, will not be revealed until the trial starts in November, with Justice Hall signalling any intention to publicise them before then may mean they are taken out of context.
The above is a post going back to June of this year.

Could the signed admissions have been to his guilt on the Huntingdale and Karrakatta attacks and they've known about his intention to plead since the middle of the year?

June article linked.

 

one eyed spy

Team Captain
Feb 11, 2018
476
1,204
AFL Club
Sydney
I've been thinking about the taxis & fibres allowed into ther. I think, it is to prove that those fibres were not easily transported onto other people who're just getting from point A to point B like any
other person
They did recover fibres from the taxi on her & she only went from A to B presumably so they must transfer readily.

I'll take a stab at it being the only transport she took that night that was documented & can be proved.

They have removed any option for the defense to use that taxi ride to introduce doubt as to the origin of the fibres by eliminating the taxi as a potential source.

They're saying yes, she was in that cab and we can prove it, thats where fibres came from. So how did she get fibres matching your car and pants on her then?

I can only explain the ambiguity in the taxi explanation as documented in court docs and the newspaper as unintentional now.

Im leaning toward they can only be alluding to 1 cab trip from Nedlands to OBH as thats the only time they've said conclusively she took a cab.

Court docs leave the method of travel from Shenton Park to Nedlands & from OBH to Conti out. They read as though they drove themselves from the OBH but we know her friends caught a cab home from Conti so maybe not. Hence suggesting it was left unspecified as they have no conclusive record of them calling a cab or a name to that trip, which means it cant be proved they took it or what cab it was so not a very convincing defence strategy to introduce doubt by using that example.
 

one eyed spy

Team Captain
Feb 11, 2018
476
1,204
AFL Club
Sydney
The above is a post going back to June of this year.

Could the signed admissions have been to his guilt on the Huntingdale and Karrakatta attacks and they've known about his intention to plead since the middle of the year?

June article linked.

That was my query to Badge after the guilty plea but he didnt respond. I wondered about that but dont think so now. He wanted the trial split so wouldnt have left it till then despite it having similar effects if he did. I think his admissions will refer to going to the Conti regularly or something similar. I wondered if he'd even have the gall to say he knew Chiara or had met her.
 

one eyed spy

Team Captain
Feb 11, 2018
476
1,204
AFL Club
Sydney
So was SSs murder charge added later, because the detailed information took time to recall and needed piecing together. Twenty-years is a long time to recall information in detail.
They've never waived in their beliefs about all 3 murders being connected & I think it just took some time for them to work back through the evidence & get to Sarah.

The DNA connecting CG, KK, H/dale crimes & pointing to him dictated those crimes as a priority to lay charges.

They already had 2 separate fibre links and similar injuries connecting JR & CG so charging 2 counts of murder together would have been likely long before they knew who to charge.

They gathered facts relating to BRE once they identified him & began comparing his profile to information collected over the course of the CSK investigation. Its likely they started to see some crossover either as new info came to hand or they worked through what they had and came across it.
ie possible Camry / Telstra sightings around the time of SS disappearance linking with information provided by Telstra regarding the vehicles he had.

Once they felt they had enough they could use to link him, they laid charges. I'd suspect it more likely that anything provided from Exs in support of the charge would have been obtained via semi specific questioning as they tried to firm up the evidence they had. I think its less likely that they were given information from the ex which resulted in them laying the 3rd murder charge.
 

Hai_Newman

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 17, 2017
9,858
35,692
Puppies are scary.
AFL Club
West Coast
Here's what the West has to say about this today in their p29-30 CSK spread.
It does not specify whether the dates were breakfast, lunch or dinner.



CH is the same CH lady that had a section heading to herself and was mentioned in the next section of the 2019WASC282 Evidence Admissions document a few months ago.

I wonder if this site has been, disclosed...would the police have to inform the public if SS has already been discovered at this site or just keep it under wraps for the trial?
 

shellyg

Spec Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
7,488
11,067
No Surrender
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
That was my query to Badge after the guilty plea but he didnt respond. I wondered about that but dont think so now. He wanted the trial split so wouldnt have left it till then despite it having similar effects if he did. I think his admissions will refer to going to the Conti regularly or something similar. I wondered if he'd even have the gall to say he knew Chiara or had met her.
I remember your post querying but didn't remember the reference until I stumbled over it last night. He'd have been scheming his defense since the arrest, pleading guilty to the lesser charges is part of it because he's caught cold on those but there's more.

Agree, he'll produce admissions similar to your suggestion.
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
2,721
2,832
AFL Club
Fremantle
they have the taxi details for the trip from nedlands to obh. having the taxi number would give them the car rego and also the make/model. perhaps that driver is now deceased, or no longer in australia. they also have the taxi driver from the obh to claremont trip, who will testify that he was driving a falcon. neither trip was in a commodore
That's my understanding, but it could be both the dispatcher with the information on the car and the witness driver are for the same taxi ride from Nedlands to OBH.

I'm not sure but there could be a taxi stand near the OBH and it may not have been necessary to call a cab.

Either way, if they only have a dispatch call with no witness saying they were the driver then they could have jumped in a empty cab passing or gotten into one from a stand and not waited for the dispatched cab.

Or in the other situation, if they don't have information on the taxi ride from OBH to Claremont there is a possibility that the fibres could have come from this car.

So at best the judge would have to decide how much weight to put on a dispatacher call only or if there is no information on the type of car in an earlier taxi ride.
 

Likeamystery

Senior List
Aug 11, 2019
150
193
AFL Club
West Coast
I remember your post querying but didn't remember the reference until I stumbled over it last night. He'd have been scheming his defense since the arrest, pleading guilty to the lesser charges is part of it because he's caught cold on those but there's more.

Agree, he'll produce admissions similar to your suggestion.
You’re right about spending time to scheme, he’s got plenty of time on his hands. We may find that he’s suddenly remembered a few things, to better explain how his DNA was under CGs fingernails.

If he does suggest that he knew CG, he’d need to explain, where he met her, who introduced them, and if it was through a work function who else was there to vouch that they were both there at the same time. Unless he suggests he knew her from one of the Claremont/Cottesloe hotels, prior to going on her long-holiday – that doesn’t require an introduction or anyone to vouch it happened.

The first wife worked for a lawyers and CG was a lawyer.

Whilst at the two hotels CG was with colleagues and when seen walking along Stirling Hwy wasn’t sighted with anyone. So, if he suggests he was the one who stopped to talk to CG on the Stirling Hwy, and gave her a ride part-way home, why didn’t he come forward.
 

Top Bottom