Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

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Kennedy84

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Failed duty of care, negligence.

Did they cooperate fully and openly with police? Looks like they didn't.

What measures did they take after being told by investigators one of their employees may have been picking up girls in the Claremont area and loitering/lurking? That one of their employees may be a suspect in a series of crimes? Were they told?

Did they do anything at all? Nothing? Why?

Did they alert the police to an attack on a woman at HH by one of their employees? That same employee who had a car accident in a Telstra vehicle on Stirling Highway?

Nooooooo.
This sort of attention will be awful for the first tranche of telstra shares....
he's got a record, they'll find him eventually.
 

Willow weeps

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I think we can lay off of WAPOL a bit now. We all thought they never looked into Telstra & only taxi drivers. We were wrong. I'm also starting to think that at some points we're not allowed to know the full details of what witnesses say as in one report with the HH victim, what happened after BRE grabbed her & was dragging her, the blog writer stopped as the judge said something. So some stuff is because the general public are not allowed to know & some stuff is for different reasons by both sides.Why the hell subscribe when different outlets are publishing the exact same words. The West Australian never told us this could happen
 

Kennedy84

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I think we can lay off of WAPOL a bit now. We all thought they never looked into Telstra & only taxi drivers. We were wrong. I'm also starting to think that at some points we're not allowed to know the full details of what witnesses say as in one report with the HH victim, what happened after BRE grabbed her & was dragging her, the blog writer stopped as the judge said something. So some stuff is because the general public are not allowed to know & some stuff is for different reasons by both sides.Why the hell subscribe when different outlets are publishing the exact same words. The West Australian never told us this could happen
I'd understand that if it was a jury trial. But I don't get why hall is suppressing it, when he is already aware of it and is making the decision.
 

FTY1

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That was interesting. Why didn't Barbagallo let her finish? It's kinda left it on a knife edge.
"asked how she got out of the van she said: "I just remember Annabel yanked me from the back of the van and I remembered she said "that man was..
Before she could finish she was cut off.
...That man was??!! That man was what?!!!!
Maybe Annabelle will be a witness. It might be because she is quoting what was said rather than what she saw.
 

yodellinhank

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Perhaps they are only allowed to state they were given a lift and nothing else. As it most likely can't be proven it is him driving any more info could be considered to have prejudicial impact
I'd think this is on the money. They are witnesses that a telstra vehicle was trawling the area.

Allegations/insinuations for things which the accused is not on trial for would be evidence of bad character and not allowed to be lead by the prosecution.
 

shellyg

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I wonder how much they actually told Telstra's management. I'm sceptical they told them what it was about.
Management would have known but it should have been kept quiet from their employees. Here there was a discussion between the police and Telstra about what a witness saw.

Macro Taskforce were probing 'Telstra car link' in 1996 after Jane's disappearance

The fax reads:

"Attached is the result of Telstra vehicle checks you requested last week. Sorry for the delay. I seem to recall that you mentioned the vehicle you were looking for had a Telstra logo on the side, distinct from the Telecom logo, and
the witness was fairly definite about this.
 

Krusty Crab

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The court is being shown a document of all operational vehicles from the Telstra SAS system from January 1996 that was provided to WA Police in December 1998.....

Ms Eldridge has read out a letter that was provided to WA Police with a list of drivers from July 1996.
In an answer to an inquiry from police, she told the court if a witness saw a car with a Telstra logo that they should know the company only started putting logos on vehicles in July 1995, the date when the domestic trading name officially changed from Telecom to Telstra.
She said if it was sighted in February it would not have been possible to have the Telstra logo.
She also said that the names of drivers might not be correct because sometimes the vehicles changed hands or borrowed them and if they needed to confirm to contact her.
Mr Edwards was not on the list of drivers.

The start of the paragraph says January 1996, the next sentence says July 1996. if the list was from July 1996, and it was relevant to drivers of toyota camry's or vans, then BRE wouldn't be on the list as he had a commodore by then.
the reference to the February telstra logo is relevant to the KK attack, and reports of a telstra van being seen at the cemetery. Ms Eldridge is saying the van couldn't of had a telstra logo in February 1995, if the logos only started appearing in July 1995.

so if we follow that the second half of the paragraph is about the alleged KK van sightings, then we can infer the first part was too. so if the list of drivers given to the cops was dated JULY 1996 and not JANUARY 1996, and they were looking for the driver of the VAN seen near KK, then BRE wouldn't be on that list as at July 1996 he was driving a commodore.
 

Likeamystery

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you know, the woman who didn't look further into who was driving certain cars has a lot to live with now all because BRE's name was left off of that list
Telstra would have an external fleet management service, even back then.
How strange would it be if the accused was asked to collect some of the information and left his own name off the list. Or was on leave when the query was received.
 

Krusty Crab

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This watoday article answers some of the earlier questions in here about the Telstra vehicle and workers lists.
Lots more of the missing detail.


Claremont trial: Telstra links ran cold after telco didn't send accused’s vehicle in police request
By Heather McNeill

December 3, 2019 — 3.03pm











What a complete balls up by Telstra and WAPOL.
How many external reviews, and they could not even pick something like this up.


I think the above link has misrepresented the details released in court today regards the 1996 telstra vehicle inquiry. from what i have read, the 1996 inquiry related to the telecom/telstra van seen around the KK cemetery around the time of the KK rape. this is noted by the response saying the telstra signs on vehicles didn't exist in February 1995, they started in July 1995. there hasn't been anything to suggest this request had anything to do with the CSK, or that macro linked the CSK and the KK attack back in 1996. its possible that when the request was sent through, whoever typed it accidentally swapped the words telecom for telstra, as the change over happened before the request was made.

Is the mention of the 1998 request in this article based on the slide that was erroneously displayed at court today?

'We need details on Telstra Toyota Camrys': Police internal document in 1998
Another document has been shown that is an internal police record from 1998. This is the wrong exhibit and the prosecutor has quickly removed it from the court's screen.
It read:
"As discussed Macro Taskforce requires details of vehicles licensed to Telstra between January 1996 ... [exhibit removed from screen before transcribing could be complete].
"I would like to request some information through BCI on some vehicles that belong and have belonged to Telstra at some stage.
"Peter Kelly has spoken with Kingsley Bannister from Melbourne re: obtaining information. He stated that details could be obtained by BCI request.
"We need to know which specific depots had the Camry Sedans and the driver’s details.
"The request can be directed to Telstra."
In late 1998 a request was made by police for Telstra to provide a list of all active vehicles, which Telstra provided.
Ms Eldridge said if a vehicle was operational in 1996, but was no longer in use from 1998 onwards, it would not have appeared on the list.

so if this is what the article is basing its 1998 question from the police to telstra regards telstra cars, then there is insufficient details here to draw the details in the article. it shows macro was looking into camry sedans owned by telstra. it doesn't give specific dates in January, it doesn't specify if BRE was on this list, it wouldn't list BRE's other cars as it asks specifically for Camry's, and it doesn't bring up the details that BRE Camry was leased to someone else so now not on the list.
 

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Bring back Drum

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Hi all, it’s unfortunate that this thread exists, but I am enjoying all theories being thrown around & the banter. Absolutely gutted in reading how early the Telstra link was made & how nothing came of it resulting in the murder of CG.

One thing I’m not getting is all this talk about BRE’s PC usage & potentially gaming. Wasn’t a large part of the conversation prior to the trial about what was & wasn’t admissible in regards to his porn watching & possible addiction?

As they were not able to admit the porn evidence, are they still trying to allude to it with the constant mentioning of his PC addition?

And it wasn’t just your standard run of the mill porn either, as mentioned in this below article in regards to the directions hearing. Apologies if I’ve missed something.

 
Feb 19, 2019
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Wasn't it a sleep study being run at Charlie Gardner Hospital?
If you were having sleep problems your GP could refer you to the sleep clinic. Also if you were prescribed benzos it was prudent to have your sleep pattern checked. Continually stopping breathing and then choking as you wake up causes sleep deprevation. Most people were prescribed a CPAP machine.
 

kingswood71

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If you were having sleep problems your GP could refer you to the sleep clinic. Also if you were prescribed benzos it was prudent to have your sleep pattern checked. Continually stopping breathing and then choking as you wake up causes sleep deprevation. Most people were prescribed a CPAP machine.
If a GP referred, I am anxious to see why and would think that if its important they would be called. If they arent called, then the reason is probably not important to the case and the sleep physician was called simply to provide accurate evidence of his height and weight and alcohol consumption at the time.
 

craigos

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Can't lay all the blame at the feet of Telstra, they're not investigators. A lot of businesses have flaws in how they collect and store data, there may be a number of reasons the accused name didn't appear on a list.

The assumption should have been anyone that worked at Telstra potentially had access to a vehicle (regardless of if their role required it) and lets have a look to see who has a criminal record. Pretty basic Police work.
 

kingswood71

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Can't lay all the blame at the feet of Telstra, they're not investigators. A lot of businesses have flaws in how they collect and store data, there may be a number of reasons the accused name didn't appear on a list.

The assumption should have been anyone that worked at Telstra potentially had access to a vehicle (regardless of if their role required it) and lets have a look to see who has a criminal record. Pretty basic Police work.
Yep agreed. Police should have requested a list of telecom/telstra employees. May have been a lot, but then could have cross-referenced each one. Hmm..."this bloke attacked a social worked". Okay "lets chat with him".......Provides DNA, matches KK in June 1996.
 

BFew

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...so if this is what the article is basing its 1998 question from the police to telstra regards telstra cars, then there is insufficient details here to draw the details in the article. it shows macro was looking into camry sedans owned by telstra. it doesn't give specific dates in January, it doesn't specify if BRE was on this list, it wouldn't list BRE's other cars as it asks specifically for Camry's, and it doesn't bring up the details that BRE Camry was leased to someone else so now not on the list....
The other article that I posted excerpts from yesterday does though


The court also saw evidence that WA police had written to Telstra again in December 1998, seeking information about Telstra vehicles in operation between 25 and 28 January, 1996 – the weekend that Spiers disappeared.
But the vehicle list sent back to WA police did not include details of the Toyota Camry station wagon that Edwards was driving at the time, given the car had been sold by Telstra in the intervening period.
The records show that police first suspected a Telstra employee could be connected to the crimes more than 20 years before Edwards was arrested.
 

BFew

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How strange would it be if the accused was asked to collect some of the information and left his own name off the list. Or was on leave when the query was received.
Which reminds me.
When did the accused take his accrued after 10 years, 3 months of long service leave?

On my calculations, he became eligible for it not before the Australia day weekend in 1996.
Maybe this will be revealed by one of any remaining Telstra witnesses at the trial.

Now we know that he was having sleep disorder testing in March 1996 (at least), what dates has the trial evidence so far confirmed that he was definitely not on long service leave in 1996/97 (apart from Saturday 27 Jan 1996 alleged work in Dumas House)?
 

BFew

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I think the above link has misrepresented the details released in court today regards the 1996 telstra vehicle inquiry
A timely reminder that without official court transcripts, or recordings, we should be wary of assuming that the media reports are 100% factually correct.
Some of them might be borrowing incorrect info from each other, to fill in there missing gaps.

I'll be the first to put my hand up for some perhaps too hasty assertions/opinions yesterday, as I/we don't have all/enough of the verified facts yet on the Telstra vehicles/drivers list info.
 

BFew

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Police should have requested a list of telecom/telstra employees.
Lists (plural)
Snapshots at various key points in time.
Including staff on leave and secondment to other organisations
And including any other workers (labor hire, partners/vendors) who might have had access to Telstra vehicles (legal or illegally).
 

kingswood71

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Lists (plural)
Snapshots at various key points in time.
Including staff on leave and secondment to other organisations
And including any other workers (labor hire, partners/vendors) who might have had access to Telstra vehicles (legal or illegally).
Agreed. It would literally have taken 2 minutes (even back in 1996!) to have printed off a record of WA based employees from 1995-1996.
 

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