Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Melsy]

Yes, you can bet Senior Telstra Executives would have coughed their cornflakes over their morning paper when they read that Police are still waiting on information from the Telco, relating only to Australias biggest murder investigation after the arrest nearly two years ago. Someone in headquarters would have to be getting a "please explain " you would think. Have to assume the information has not been provided because there is no record available.
As far as the 2500 witness statements relating to 3 alleged murders and a rape /abduction this is very very unusual.
Interesting to see the MSM once again trotting out the proposition that someone is in fact an electrical engineer who did a lot of subcontract work for large corporations both in the North of the State and Interstate. They have had two years to verify- Correct.?- or just slack journalists re-hashing incorrect post arrest speculation.?

An electrical engineer is a university degree. I have a feeling someone has created a pseudo title of their position. They might be a licensed cable installer rather than a qualified electrical systems designer. Not a licensed electrician either.

I'm going with a certified cable installer, albeit with decades of experience. Electrical engineer I doubt. Falsely claiming qualifications usually draws litigation, especially if someone is a business.

Although that scrap book discovered in the wall of an abandoned warehouse on government road is typical of a student studying electrical engineering. Wiring diagrams, far different from contemporary examinations and schematics, now often drawn and designed in CAD.

The diagrams were all pre CAD in coloured pencils. Wiring looms for engines, from an era of Magnetic House (Home of General Electric which supplied many the old Stirling phones for PMG. PMG were later separated into Australia Post and Telstra), the old Pinocchio's night club on Murray St.

Government road which Jane Rimmer worked on, the street where the warehouse with book containing electrical loom schematics was where initial government departments were like the local road board.

There are many Government road named streets across the state. Some Government roads renamed at later dates, such as the street over by Swanbourne which I think is a continuation of the current Nedlands Government road.

The Karrakatta abduction was opposite the Iona junior school, next a subway. Stirling road is a subway too, all those escape underpasses past the Claremont speedway.

 

[Kurve]

Although that scrap book discovered in the wall of an abandoned warehouse on government road is typical of a student studying electrical engineering. Wiring diagrams, far different from contemporary examinations and schematics, now often drawn and designed in CAD.

The diagrams came out of an old auto electric shop and it was penned by someone who was quite a bit older than BRE imo.

 

[Melsy]

The diagrams came out of an old auto electric shop and it was penned by someone who was quite a bit older than BRE imo.

I think it was more than an auto shop Shelly. Those diagrams are more akin to an electrical engineering workshop that fixes electrical motors, and or manufactures. That warehouse was on Government road, so it may have well been a government department in days gone by.

It maybe purely coincidence that the book was there from decades prior, but someone may have had a liking for these old places of years gone by. The book of schemata is not printed so it is not really a manual, but it's owner might have been a mechanical electrician or similar. Apprentice even sitting exams demonstrating knowledge of each task.

 

[Melsy]

Id be interested to see if someone was running a static IP and hosting web server at their house?

Is this what is referred to in the computer discovery? Collecting IP addresses via the server then potentially checking the owners not excluding forum users via Telstra databases and network systems?

Maybe a bit of packet sniffing?

 

[Kurve]

Id be interested to see if someone was running a static IP and hosting web server at their house?

Is this what is referred to in the computer discovery? Collecting IP addresses via the server then potentially checking the owners not excluding forum users via Telstra databases and network systems?

Maybe a bit of packet sniffing?

Would that be relevant to the murders of three girls in the 90's?

 

[Iworkthecircus]

Hi

 

[Kurve]

Yes, you can bet Senior Telstra Executives would have coughed their cornflakes over their morning paper when they read that Police are still waiting on information from the Telco, relating only to Australias biggest murder investigation after the arrest nearly two years ago. Someone in headquarters would have to be getting a "please explain " you would think. Have to assume the information has not been provided because there is no record available.

Telstra wasn't privatised until 1997 I think, this might be on the Government whose records one might expect to be pretty good.

But maybe not ..

 

[Melsy]

Would that be relevant to the murders of three girls in the 90's?

It would be relevant to locating an intimidating anyone who spoke about those crimes. As was rumoured about someone in another state. Organised crime turned up on their doorstep, allegedly.

 

[Melsy]

Telstra wasn't privatised until 1997 I think, this might be on the Government whose records one might expect to be pretty good.

But maybe not ..

The telco might be struggling to pull data from a legacy database, or they are going through a pyramid of hard records.

At the time of the initial crimes, Telstra was getting ready for transition to privatisation. Announcements made. Employees informed prior probably long before.

 

[Power Raid]

The wording makes me think that he wasn't allowed to know who was giving the evidence, so the information was included under suppression for protection of living witnesses. Instead of going through legal process for the defence to see the redacted evidence, they've come to an agreement where he's said he doesn't want to see and won't look or share the evidence so his lawyers can have access?

possible but given it will be presented in the court, it can only be a timing issue.

 

[GreyCrow]

Id be interested to see if someone was running a static IP and hosting web server at their house?

Is this what is referred to in the computer discovery? Collecting IP addresses via the server then potentially checking the owners not excluding forum users via Telstra databases and network systems?

Maybe a bit of packet sniffing?

I heard TD does this Puts links into stories then sits back

 

[freofc1994]

As far as the 2500 witness statements relating to 3 alleged murders and a rape /abduction this is very very unusual.

Why is it?

 

[Badge666]

If you think about it this number seems to match the average pub attendance on the 3 nights ie 600-800 at each pub on the night and 300 or so others

They could be as little as ' I seen nothing man' to full blown bar staff statements etc

Yes my thoughts too, the bulk of these witness statements relate to the three murder charges.They are determined to put him out and about around the Pub/ Club Scene in 1996/7 doubtless.
Now I drank a lot of piss on a nightly basis in Perth Resteraunts and Nightclubs around the same era ,......
but i would doubt fewer than a couple of dozen staff and regular patrons would remember me........which begs the question...what was the big fella doing to get to know thousands of bar staff and punters....he doesn't strike me as exactly a gregarious outgoing type.....it would nearly have to be work related.....some type of part time job....?
Now the media blackout and O Callaghans call to beware of commenting on social media are starting to make a bit of sense IMO... the SCS has spoken to half of Perth in the past 18 months by the sounds of it, and the last thing they would want is social media free for all....... getting to the pointy end now...getting veeeeeery interesting....

 

[Badge666]

Why is it?

A "normal " murder case you would be lucky to see a hundred witness statements .

 

[BlueE]

possible but given it will be presented in the court, it can only be a timing issue.

Agree but this would cover the testimony of protected living witnesses, until they testify if this is the case.

It seems strange that at the 1st Nov hearing Yovich had already given an undertaking to the prosecution team that the sensitive evidence would never be in Edwards possession, so the defence could have access to the information. I don't think they were talking about crime scene photos in this instance.

Mr Yovich said he had already made an undertaking that it would not ever be in Mr Edwards possession, because he had expressly said he did not want to see it.

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremo...dwards-trial-to-be-judge-alone-ng-b881008714z

 

[FTY1]

A "normal " murder case you would be lucky to see a hundred witness statements .

To compare it to a big one being the retrial of David Eastman on the murder of the assistant Police Commissioner of the AFP Colin Winchester. This was a 1989 murder that had re-trial after Eastman had served 19 years.

"A trial lasting almost six months. Legal documents piling up to 36,000 pages. More than 100 witnesses. Dozens of statements."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11...rra-jury-retires/10494180?WT.ac=statenews_act

 

[Badge666]

To compare it to a big one being the retrial of David Eastman on the murder of the assistant Police Commissioner of the AFP Colin Winchester. This was a 1989 murder that had re-trial after Eastman had served 19 years.

"A trial lasting almost six months. Legal documents piling up to 36,000 pages. More than 100 witnesses. Dozens of statements."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11...rra-jury-retires/10494180?WT.ac=statenews_act

Yes other trials might be lucky to have a dozen. 2500 for the upcoming trial is ......Huge.

 

[FTY1]

The telco might be struggling to pull data from a legacy database, or they are going through a pyramid of hard records.

At the time of the initial crimes, Telstra was getting ready for transition to privatisation. Announcements made. Employees informed prior probably long before.

I know around mid 2008, Telstra had a total restructure of their customer accounts system because around that time they issued people with new account numbers. Having issues with accounts at the time, meant that I was talking to different people dealing with the legacy system and the new system to sort out matters.

I am not sure whether the accounts system was the same or separate to the system that was logging jobs. Possibly they were separate systems and maybe when they rebuilt their systems in 2008 put them together.

Some older systems may not have been upgraded to modern technology or in some cases the software may no longer be available.

 

[Melsy]

I know around mid 2008, Telstra had a total restructure of their customer accounts system because around that time they issued people with new account numbers. Having issues with accounts at the time, meant that I was talking to different people dealing with the legacy system and the new system to sort out matters.

I am not sure whether the accounts system was the same or separate to the system that was logging jobs. Possibly they were separate systems and maybe when they rebuilt their systems in 2008 put them together.

Some older systems may not have been upgraded to modern technology or in some cases the software may no longer be available.

mmmm legacy, flat-file many many redundancy

SELECT FROM JOB WHERE tech_ID EQUALS *******

client_ID > job_ID > tech_ID

It could be as bad as programmer building programs to pull the datasets out of the DB

Who ran Telstras fleet management? Was fleet management in house?

 

[FTY1]

mmmm legacy, flat-file many many redundancy

SELECT FROM JOB WHERE tech_ID EQUALS *******

client_ID > job_ID > tech_ID

It could be as bad as programmer building programs to pull the datasets out of the DB

Who ran Telstras fleet management? Was fleet management in house?

It looks like it was outsourced in 1998
"As a matter of record, however, it should be noted that Telstra’s reorganisation of its labour force has left few areas of the company unaffected. Among the earliest functions to be outsourced under Project Mercury were those considered “non-core” such as property services (cleaning, security, maintenance of exchange air-conditioning). Other initiatives saw the sale of Visionstream (initially set up to roll out Telstra’s pay-TV network) to Leighton Holdings (December 1996), the restructuring and eventual sale of Telstra’s business Small Business Systems operation (1998) and the attempted sale of its construction arm, NDC; the contracting out of most pit and pipe work (1997), of fleet services (1998), of warehousing and distribution (1998), of exchange battery maintenance (2000) and the progressive outsourcing of operator assisted service and field workforce functions (1997 onwards)."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...bs/sub57.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wPwbvs8fop71cLkqnCk8Q

 

[freofc1994]

A "normal " murder case you would be lucky to see a hundred witness statements .

You're statement that said "As far as the 2500 witness statements relating to 3 alleged murders and a rape /abduction this is very very unusual."

Then you've qualified that with "a normal murder case" which this is clearly not.

I'm still failing to grasp how this is "unusual"

 

[Kurve]

She said she was waiting on statements from Telstra about Mr Edwards’ job during the relevant time and “everything that went with that”, including where he went and what vehicles he could access.

Would Telstra have engaged their own lawyers for this do we think? Would statements be filtered through them and that's what the holdup is?

They've had two years ......

 

[Kurve]

A "normal " murder case you would be lucky to see a hundred witness statements .

Over a twenty year investigation though and there were other suspects and POI. If we're to presume all material through such a long investigation is to be made available to the defence, would 2500 witness statements be really unusual?

 

[freofc1994]

Would Telstra have engaged their own lawyers for this do we think? Would statements be filtered through them and that's what the holdup is?

They've had two years ......

Telstra will most definitely have everything running through their legal teams before being released.

 

[Kurve]

Blake, Dawson, Waldron, the law firm Ciara Glennon worked for was on the Telstra legal team. So they're probably not using them for this .... surely.