Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

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A study on serial killers in Australia. The CSK is already part of it as being responsible for three murders, right down the bottom.

Typology of serial murder in Australia, 1989-90 to 2005-06

csk.png

These serial murders involved 13 known killers (excluding the Claremont killings in WA - while these murders are unsolved, it is suspected that a sole offender was responsible, based on the similar modus operandi in each case). All but one grouping of serial murders were committed by an offender acting alone, and 12 of the 13 identified serial killers were male. Where information was known, the majority of the serial murderers were unemployed when apprehended by police.

Victims
The total number of known victims is 52 (including the three Claremont murder victims), with serial murder accounting for less than one percent of all homicides in Australia. It is possible that the victim count may be greater due to as yet unidentified connections between murders.

etc.,

https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi346

It's interesting imo that while women account for 63% of the victims, over half the killers targeted men and women.
 

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Krusty Crab said:
Hi all new to the forum, just read through all the previous posts in this thread. few things i thought of as i read:

Pictures on the map on the wall - could the top right pic be a blown up still of the MM in the video footage talking to JR outside the hotel?

pics on the left of the bush and the car is probably the JR disposal site. the car is a 4wd vehicle used by police at the scene. if you look back a few pages to the newspaper article about the cops at the JR scene, they have a similar looking car in the back ground.

I grew up quite close to the high school that the accused attended, although he graduated well before me. Can confirm there were 2 x occasions when the gym burnt down, not sure of the time of the first one, but second one would of been late 1991/early 1992. i can confirm that for the early part of 1993 parts of the back of the gym were still fenced off with tradies working and a removable site office in place.

for the rape case of 1988 in huntingdale - it is quite possible the victim went to the same school as the accused, and she would of been 2-3 years younger. the accused has a younger brother, from what I've read the brother is 2 years younger. it is quite possible the victim was known to the brother, and by extension, the accused. although she couldn't of been too well known to the accused, as he wasn't identified. if she was known to the accused's brother, could this be an argument for finding his DNA at the scene?

regards the MM in the video, is it possible for that to be the CSK, that he had met JR before, hence the friendly discussion? he could of left to get his car, and she waited out the front for him. when she disappeared from the CCTV footage, is that because she got into his car? if this man was indeed the CSK, that could be why he never came forward. if we extend on from this, could the CSK of been frequenting the area as a single man, and met the victims previously, hence why they were happy to get in the car with him? or did he chat them up and they left together? (if this is true, the CSK may have been already named as one of the people from inside the hotel?) The CSK could of then tried it on with the women, and if they resisted he didn't take no for an answer? SS death may have been an accident during the struggle, with more effort to hide the body to avoid detection. As time went on and the body wasn't found, the CSK could of gotten more brazen, seeing death as a way to avoid detection, and spending less time dumping the bodies. the killings may have stopped due to CSK finding a long term partner, so no further need to pursue other women?

would it be possible to run footage from the hotels through facial recognition software to look for common people either inside or outside on the dates of the crimes?
Click to expand...

They have been through and eliminated most, if not all the people in the videos, one by one.

I think we will have to wait for a trial to hear a lot more evidence.
 
Willow weeps said:
For some reason that fact has always stuck in my head so it must have come from Debi Marshal's book like Melsy said. I knew it was either Jane or Ciara's dad. I read that book roughly 9 years ago. I'm sorry if I offended the general public on here but I didn't say any of them had anything to do with the murders. I just said how it didn't take full effect until the then premier's ex school buddy's daughter went missing. Before you accuse me of anything, please read what I said & not what you THINK I implied from everyone else jumping in & having their say & twisting what I'd actually said, added their own bits & not what you THINK I said. I never once implied that any had anything to do with it, only he took notice when HIS FRIEND's Daughter went missing too. Meaning that he cared less about one missing girl seeing her dad was blue collared & not born into or self made money.
Click to expand...

Firstly you stated if was Jane's dad. I know you were not implying any of the girls' fathers had involvement in any way. But you do talk about a friendship. I believe it more acquaintance relationship.

Anyhow still absolutely no relevance. Marshall's vacuous book is full of non relevancy and errors. Then to bring in Spiers extended family property dealings is a step way way beyond the ol' black stump.
 
Sorbet Bliss said:
That top right hand corner image throws me the most.
I can't see what you're seeing although it would make sense to have an image like that pinned on to the map.
The first thing my eyes saw when I looked at that photo was an Arum Lilly. Then what could be a body but would they let the news camera crew in to film such a sensitive and ultimately confidential image?

Whatever they are I think these photos are important to Janes case though. Imo.
Click to expand...

I think the top right photo is one of Jane and taken from cctv. It appears to be an overhead shot. The tv coverage that showed the images was from ACA. Does anyone know when ie date ACA aired the footage?
 
Beatnicked said:
I think the top right photo is one of Jane and taken from cctv. It appears to be an overhead shot. The tv coverage that showed the images was from ACA. Does anyone know when ie date ACA aired the footage?
Click to expand...
ACA meaning A Current Affair?

I've been able to see an over head shot of what looks like a person in the image one eye edited but what my eyes see is a person sitting down. I can definitely make out a face as if the image was taken from above though.

The only footage I've seen and the still's taken from CCTV are from the Crime Investigation Australia program. There's two different ones from that night. The one where Jane is waiting outside the Conti and another that shows Jane and her friends leaving the Conti.(making their way to clubba?) Are you referring to any of those? If not then I'm unfamiliar with the CCTV footage that you speak of.
 
Melsy said:
Where does it say he went to school with Glennon? Where does it say Glennon went to Hale school?
Click to expand...

It doesn't if you read my above post (one that you liked) I disputed the fact that they went to school together as the Glennons didn't move over to Australia until Ciara was 5.

You said there was nothing about court going to Hale. I provided a link and quote from that site that said he did.
 

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Sorbet Bliss said:
ACA meaning A Current Affair?

I've been able to see an over head shot of what looks like a person in the image one eye edited but what my eyes see is a person sitting down. I can definitely make out a face as if the image was taken from above though.

The only footage I've seen and the still's taken from CCTV are from the Crime Investigation Australia program. There's two different ones from that night. The one where Jane is waiting outside the Conti and another that shows Jane and her friends leaving the Conti.(making their way to clubba?) Are you referring to any of those? If not then I'm unfamiliar with the CCTV footage that you speak of.
Click to expand...

Yes it is A Current Affair. Yep that's why I would like date ACA initially aired the footage. If its before 2008 cops have a lot to answer for!
 
Sorbet Bliss said:
ACA meaning A Current Affair?

I've been able to see an over head shot of what looks like a person in the image one eye edited but what my eyes see is a person sitting down. I can definitely make out a face as if the image was taken from above though.

The only footage I've seen and the still's taken from CCTV are from the Crime Investigation Australia program. There's two different ones from that night. The one where Jane is waiting outside the Conti and another that shows Jane and her friends leaving the Conti.(making their way to clubba?) Are you referring to any of those? If not then I'm unfamiliar with the CCTV footage that you speak of.
Click to expand...

In that image the back of Jane's head is left on the ACA image as we look at it. The hair is right length. You can see her white shirt and she is also wearing her dark coloured jacket over the shirt. When she was outside she was holding her jacket that's why I think the photo we are discussing is from inside the hotel. It looks as though someone is standing on her left side.

If I am correct cops have cctv footage from inside. They also have cctv footage from inside the night Ciara was taken.

The shirt looked dark in mm footage but cops did say her shirt was white in clothing description.
 
A quickie. Correct me and Ill re edit it. Could be Wellard far left. Looks like railway, old jarrah mill trail

It may not be Scribble Maps, more like a PC based police asset mapping program.

current-affair-cops-csk-office-BF.jpg
 
Melsy said:
A quickie. Correct me and Ill re edit it. Could be Wellard far left. Looks like railway, old jarrah mill trail

It may not be Scribble Maps, more like a PC based police asset mapping program.

current-affair-cops-csk-office-BF.jpg
Click to expand...

It seems to be Wellard to me too. Cops have not got photos to compass bearing that's what may confuse people.

Don't know about the rail thing. I initially thought skeletonized remains. I will check on work monitor.

Eglinton. Dont think so. That looks like the area north of Wellard called Spectacles with lots of circular lake bogs.

The pinboards appear to be all about Jane because wouldn't they also have photos of Ciara if not?

Dont think there is any reference to Julie Cutler in any if these boards. Could be a CSK poi house or workplace.
 
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Beatnicked said:
If I am correct cops have cctv footage from inside. They also have cctv footage from inside the night Ciara was taken.
Click to expand...

image.jpeg image.jpeg
Going by this image taken from the CCTV footage from that night I think they did have cameras inside the Conti.
Below images taken from google earth street view of the establishment now.
image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg

I'll take another look at one eyes image when I'm home and see if I can pick up what you're seeing.
 
Beatnicked said:
It seems to be Wellard to me too. Cops have not got photos to compass bearing that's what may confuse people.

Don't know about the rail thing. I initially thought skeletonized remains. I will check on work monitor.

Eglinton. Dont think so. That looks like the area north of Wellard called Spectacles with lots of circular lake bogs.

The pinboards appear to be all about Jane because wouldn't they also have photos of Ciara if not?

Dont think there is any reference to Julie Cutler in any if these boards. Could be a CSK poi house or workplace.
Click to expand...

The images don't appear to be correlated with victims. The top right image is definitely the track the apiarist used next to Ciaras discovered body.

There is something in the bush, which looks like a bench seat of a car, in two adjacent images. Something rectangular. Its next to a carpark. The car is not part of the interest I think. Maybe some evidence we don't know about. The carpark very much looks like a beach, with the sign, and roadside bollards.
It looks like Leighton beach or similar.

The aerial photos may have been taken from the police helicopter in a circle from different angles unrelated to compass heading.
 
Sorbet Bliss said:
View attachment 602792
Going by this image taken from the CCTV footage from that night I think they did have cameras inside the Conti.
Below images taken from google earth street view of the establishment now.

I'll take another look at one eyes image when I'm home and see if I can pick up what you're seeing.
Click to expand...

Looks like Mystery Man doesn't it. Maybe the only one that hasn't been identified in the room.
 
shellyg said:
Seems odd if he was wandering around in there why they didn't get a look at his face. Or they did and didn't want to show it for some strange reason.
Click to expand...
Melsy said:
Looks like Mystery Man doesn't it. Maybe the only one that hasn't been identified in the room.
Click to expand...
It does. The woman standing next to him with thick curly (?) hair also looks like the same woman hugging one of the men out the front of the establishment when Jane was standing by the pole.
This image makes me doubt that they haven't had some kind of clue as to who he may have been or at the least been given some kind of description of what he looked like if they didn't manage to get any footage of his face on the CCTV footage.
Something tells me they have though and like shellyg has queried may not have shown it. And agree if they didn't it'd be a really strange move.
 
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Beatnicked said:
In that image the back of Jane's head is left on the ACA image as we look at it. The hair is right length. You can see her white shirt and she is also wearing her dark coloured jacket over the shirt. When she was outside she was holding her jacket that's why I think the photo we are discussing is from inside the hotel. It looks as though someone is standing on her left side.

If I am correct cops have cctv footage from inside. They also have cctv footage from inside the night Ciara was taken.

The shirt looked dark in mm footage but cops did say her shirt was white in clothing description.
Click to expand...
Her shirt was dark, navy blue I think, but showed up white in the cctv night footage. Jacket was black and looked black on the footage.

I tried to look for the clothing samples on missing person's website, but page has been removed. So has Julie Cutler's. Maybe someone else can find them?
 
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I looked at the version of CIA and found the shot at 20.37 of this one. This was the foxtel version which conveniently hid the ACA logos. Various other youtubes have it showing earlier.



I think the best way to work out the timing of the ACA episode would be to look at the monitors and I think it would be older footage possibly during the investigation phase.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/209224/displays/historic-monitors-slideshow.html#slide18
https://www.pcworld.com/article/209224/displays/historic-monitors-slideshow.html#slide19

The following youtube is from the 20th anniversary and shows the same pictures with an image of the full image of the overhead that was above the computer on the left in Sorbet Bliss initial picture. Unfortunately not as clear as the one previously provided. I suggest that they were taken in 1996.

 
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