Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Willow weeps]

nobody wanted to risk the sale of Telecom & the money it would bring in. Makes you wonder if someone in the government wanted it kept quite as to not jeopardize the sale. Maybe it wasn't Telstra CEO's after all

 

[Melsy]

nobody wanted to risk the sale of Telecom & the money it would bring in. Makes you wonder if someone in the government wanted it kept quite as to not jeopardize the sale. Maybe it wasn't Telstra CEO's after all

An interesting point. Protecting the institution itself. That could have repercussions if it is found to be the case, much like the church trying to protect itself by keeping matters hush hush. Telstra being a commercial 'corporation' has further implications.

I doubt it would impact the share price, but integrity of a government department involved in security is much like the police corruption.

That Telstra building doesn't have no windows for nothing. I think Telstra is still half owned by government, "as a shareholder". Maybe big boos could attract legal cases from the likes of Foxtel and other major shareholders?

 

[Power Raid]

nobody wanted to risk the sale of Telecom & the money it would bring in. Makes you wonder if someone in the government wanted it kept quite as to not jeopardize the sale. Maybe it wasn't Telstra CEO's after all

I hear you but feel that's a stretch.

From a business perspective, investors wouldn't put much weight to one rogue employee especially in a period leading up to the dot com / telecommunications boom.

 

[Power Raid]

In speaking to a lawyer, sometimes if a conviction might put employment at risk, a spent conviction might happen so it doesn't have a major adverse impact on someone's life who might pull their head in. In this case, a security breach might have ended his career? At the time, certain criminal convictions might have impacted Telecom employment in a government department because the employment meshed with government security.

When you consider the potential to intersect peoples communications at different levels, not excluding police communications, one could see how this may have cost him his job, hence the alleged benching in stores.

This sounded like it came with some pretty heavy conditions with it such as psychiatric visits etc?

100% re spent convictions.

That said, some government departments can see spent convictions as well as convictions. Especially where security clearances are required.

You're right though, he would have been offered a spent conviction due to his job and otherwise "clean record". However if the cops had done their job and pinged him for the Huntingdale stuff, a spent conviction would not have been offered. Note, he may have been a minor during the Huntingdale stuff, which might have been his savour and the reason why it was overlooked (if not for incompetency).

 

[petedavo]

100% re spent convictions.

That said, some government departments can see spent convictions as well as convictions. Especially where security clearances are required.

You're right though, he would have been offered a spent conviction due to his job and otherwise "clean record". However if the cops had done their job and pinged him for the Huntingdale stuff, a spent conviction would not have been offered. Note, he may have been a minor during the Huntingdale stuff, which might have been his savour and the reason why it was overlooked (if not for incompetency).

Also to put 1990 into context. The CSKs hadn't occurred yet, neither the Karrakatta cemetery rape, and the type of assault in 1990, was a world away from the behaviour that Police were probably looking for in regards to other unsolved cases that occurred prior to 1990. IMO

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[Melsy]

100% re spent convictions.

That said, some government departments can see spent convictions as well as convictions. Especially where security clearances are required.

You're right though, he would have been offered a spent conviction due to his job and otherwise "clean record". However if the cops had done their job and pinged him for the Huntingdale stuff, a spent conviction would not have been offered. Note, he may have been a minor during the Huntingdale stuff, which might have been his savour and the reason why it was overlooked (if not for incompetency).

From memory, 19 years of age in 1988

 

[Melsy]

Also to put 1990 into context. The CSKs hadn't occurred yet, neither the Karrakatta cemetery rape, and the type of assault in 1990, was a world away from the behaviour that Police were probably looking for in regards to other unsolved cases that occurred prior to 1990. IMO

The cops avoid break-ins now. The prisons are full. No one wants the strain on resources.

I watched three blokes steal the neighbours car after they broke into the house. I went full garden ninja taking pics and our security cameras took more. I was more concerned for the pregnant woman was inside but she wasn't home. Police didn't even fingerprint her house after I called them.

However, this precedent may see an inquiry into procedure and how ignoring early crimes and taking identity impacts community later. It could mean an overhaul of low level crime procedure, especially if a multi million dollar investigation hinges on a set of finger prints.

Putting aside community ethics, this is coming at horrendous cost to the taxpayer. Early intervention would have save a **** load of everything.

It will be interesting to see why finger prints didn't end up on a national fingerprint database.

If lack of interest in early intervention is about state budget finances, this is going to flip everything on its head. The cost of this trial is identified in the state budget it is so big.

 

[craigos]

shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?

 

[Kurve]

shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?

I posted the old newspaper clip somewhere, either in one of the CSK threads or the Cutler but it was a while ago. Can't remember how they did it but 'random testing' for steroids stuck in my mind.

 

[Kurve]

shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?

Also have a vague recollection of authorities testing waste water to see how big the problem was? I don't know if that even makes sense, too much information over the years I can't retain it all.

 

[craigos]

I posted the old newspaper clip somewhere, either in one of the CSK threads or the Cutler but it was a while ago. Can't remember how they did it but 'random testing' for steroids stuck in my mind.

It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.

Also have a vague recollection of authorities testing waste water to see how big the problem was? I don't know if that even makes sense, too much information over the years I can't retain it all.

This happens frequently when testing water samples. Always reports of different pharmaceuticals being present in drinking water when its been treated. Am sure they could test waste water easily enough if they wanted to.

 

[Kurve]

It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.

Urine, hair, blood and how would it be illegal if the cops are doing it? Pretty sure also on a jail tox screens they test for steroids as well.

Urgh ... I'll try and find the clipping.

 

[Melsy]

It'd be highly illegal to ask someone for a blood sample to test for the presence of steroids.

This happens frequently when testing water samples. Always reports of different pharmaceuticals being present in drinking water when its been treated. Am sure they could test waste water easily enough if they wanted to.

I don't know how they would test that in Perth in drinking water. It is all treated together as sewerage on the way out. Each suburb is now tested in the sewerage for drugs which is why when I found a considerable quantity of crack, I was reluctant to tip it down my toilet and set off all the alarms down at Watercorp and win crack suburb of the month.
Perth does not recycle its drinking water AFAIK right now. If so, it has not been long. Not to be confused with injecting treated water back into the ground.

AFAIK, Perth would need a water purifier to recycle drinking water back into the grid which Perth probably doesn't have on a large scale.

 

[Kurve]

In this WA Law Reform Commission report they get a mention but I have to go back even further than late 2000's to find the reference to the late 80s. Just to show it's on the radar.

Further, some offenders commit offences while under the influence of drugs. In particular, the excessive use of anabolic steroids and amphetamines has been linked to increases in violent offending.10

https://www.lrc.justice.wa.gov.au/_files/p96-fr.pdf

 

[craigos]

Urine, hair, blood and how would it be illegal if the cops are doing it? Pretty sure also on a jail tox screens they test for steroids as well.

Urgh ... I'll try and find the clipping.

If you'd been arrested for a crime they could but just approaching random people for a drug test? Civil Liberties Australia would have an aneurysm.

 

[Melsy]

shellyg did you say the Police were testing people for steroids? Or testing substances to see if they were steroids?

I don't know how or why they would. The DNA they had for a long time was minimal apart from the rape.

First I have heard of any suspects tested for steroids.

 

[Kurve]

If you'd been arrested for a crime they could but just approaching random people for a drug test? Civil Liberties Australia would have an aneurysm.

'Random testing' is all I remember and there was a picture of a head cop in WA in the article saying it was a real problem. Never heard of anything like it before in any of the other states nor do I remember how they were doing these tests. Around the same era, lateish 80s there was also a problem with drink spiking.

 

[Melsy]

If you'd been arrested for a crime they could but just approaching random people for a drug test? Civil Liberties Australia would have an aneurysm.

 

[Kurve]

I don't know how or why they would. The DNA they had for a long time was minimal apart from the rape.

First I have heard of any suspects tested for steroids.

I didn't say CSK 'suspects' (if that's what you were referring to) were tested for steroids only that Perth was flooded with illegal steroids in the late 80s and that the cops were testing for them.

 

[Melsy]

I didn't say 'suspects' were tested for steroids only that Perth was flooded with illegal steroids in the late 80s and that the cops were testing for them.

Not sure... Why would they even bother... What a waste of resources. Even then, head down the local gym and test a few people. Not sure CSK...

 

[Kurve]

Not sure... Why would they even bother... What a waste of resources. Even then, head down the local gym and test a few people. Not sure CSK...

Now I remember. Aside from the article if I find it again I'll repost, I saw in a government report the percentage of people in WA who had taken illegal steroids in comparison to the other states and the difference was massive. I don't recall the exact percentages but well over double in WA. WA had the highest levels of users 80/90s.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Well I did find this and just wading through it. It's a Parliamentary PDF from 1994/95 about anabolic steroid use and "growing community concern" so it was a definite problem to warrant such attention.

https://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/cib/1994-95/95cib45.pdf

 

[Melsy]

Now I remember. Aside from the article if I find it again I'll repost, I saw in a government report the percentage of people in WA who had taken illegal steroids in comparison to the other states and the difference was massive. I don't recall the exact percentages but well over double in WA. WA had the highest levels of users.

Still not sure CSK....

 

[Melsy]

Well I did find this and just wading through it. It's a Parliamentary PDF from 1994/95 about anabolic steroid use and "growing community concern" so it was a definite problem to warrant such attention.

https://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/cib/1994-95/95cib45.pdf

Is there one on the rise of illicit drug use? Not sure how illicit steroid use reports pertains to CSK?

 

[Kurve]

Well I did find this and just wading through it. It's a Parliamentary PDF from 1994/95 about anabolic steroid use and "growing community concern" so it was a definite problem to warrant such attention.

https://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/cib/1994-95/95cib45.pdf

Thank you, much appreciated It can be hard work going back that far again, I know it's there somewhere though.