Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Likeamystery]

If the accused was sober (free from mind-altering drugs or alcohol) when he revealed (if ever) any murderous desires to specific people he trusted, would any murderous desire revelations have more weight than if he was under the influence of mind-altering drugs or alcohol?

Any murders committed by the accused, (as charged) might have arisen more from a desire to sexually assault, and then a strong self preservation desire to NOT get caught, as opposed to an intent to murder from prior to any sexual assault.

I don't think any lack of evidence of his desire to murder women, is going to much hinder or change the chances of success of the prosecution case.

Not when the DNA and fibre related evidence (in lieu of any witnesses to the murders or the body disposals), and any credible/provable enough alibis,
or physical/electronic/documented evidence of the accused or his vehicles being near the various scenes of the crimes,
is probably going to make or break whether the accused is found guilty or not guilty on any/all charges.

So, in layman’s terms it’s all hinging on the DNA and fibre evidence.

What about the fibres being from a vehicle which is a very common model.

 

[BFew]

So, in layman’s terms it’s all hinging on the DNA and fibre evidence.

A credible/prove-able enough alibi(s) would/should blow any DNA evidence out of the water.

What about the fibres being from a vehicle which is a very common model.

I'd expect there to be some probability stats related presented re this at the upcoming trial.
Presented by whom though. Prosecution or defence?

 

[one eyed spy]

What about the fibres being from a vehicle which is a very common model.

Thats why we have a trial and in this case its appropriate for the judge to decide the weight of the evidence and determine if the prosecution can convince him beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused is responsible and the most likely situation in which the crimes occurred is how they say they did.

In doing that, the most convincing case the prosecution can put forth is to also provide reasoning for the unlikelihood of it happening any other way.

How well they do that and how successful the defense is in introducing doubt to all those elements is up to the judge and will be reflected in the outcome.

You'll have to wait till then to see how it plays out & what angle each side approach from. The car fibres aren't the only fibres they've allegedly found they say links the victims to the accused.

 

[Eaglette01]

Briefly a comparison and my thoughts;

WARK was found guilty & convicted in Hayley Dodd's murder/abduction (HD never found) in a Judge only WA supreme court trial.
WARK was also found guilty of abducting a woman in Qld and was serving time in Qld before WAPOL extradited him to WA for HD murder.
The female Judge (Justice Lindy Jenkins) took all this into account (WARK's priors).
WARK had time to commit the murder the State said and the Judge agreed. HD's earring was in the vehicle WARK used on the day of HD disappearance.
DNA of HD also in the car (1 tiny piece)

BRE trial will be a Judge only WA supreme court trial in which he has pleaded Not guilty to 3 homicides (SS never found) JR & CG found.
Judge Hall is privy to all BRE priors (may/may not include Juvie crimes) - Huntingdale & HH & KK. This includes BRE last 5 Guilty pleas.
The State will argue BRE had "time" (he was alone) had "priors" and, "not speaking" throughout all the crimes - a pattern (attacking from behind) etc. etc. similar "neck injuries" etc.
The State will argue DNA on CG, & JR linking Telstra work pants/shorts and also Fibre from Telstra work vehicles which BRE had access to at the time.

There is lots to come out yet in Affidavits from - Wife 1 - Partner in Noranda - Defacto CG.... plus more affidavits Carmel handed over just recently including, many that have not been reported in main stream media.

It would not surprise me and, if BRE wants it to all go away (from his head) and live the rest of his life making Matchstick Motorbikes inside the Slammer...... He may still plead guilty to the 3 homicides. (then, the State will not release all the witness evidence). The public will never know details.
It will come out in a dragged out - long - slow as - Trial with Judge Hall........ starting in about 20 days.

If BRE is convicted of the 3 homicides - the penaltiies for the sexual assaults etc (5 Guilty pleas) become almost academic as they will be ordered to be served concurrently with the Life Imprisonment order with no eligibility of parole.

 

[BonzaRam]

Briefly a comparison and my thoughts;

WARK was found guilty & convicted in Hayley Dodd's murder/abduction (HD never found) in a Judge only WA supreme court trial.
WARK was also found guilty of abducting a woman in Qld and was serving time in Qld before WAPOL extradited him to WA for HD murder.
The female Judge (Justice Lindy Jenkins) took all this into account (WARK's priors).
WARK had time to commit the murder the State said and the Judge agreed. HD's earring was in the vehicle WARK used on the day of HD disappearance.
DNA of HD also in the car (1 tiny piece)

BRE trial will be a Judge only WA supreme court trial in which he has pleaded Not guilty to 3 homicides (SS never found) JR & CG found.
Judge Hall is privy to all BRE priors (may/may not include Juvie crimes) - Huntingdale & HH & KK. This includes BRE last 5 Guilty pleas.
The State will argue BRE had "time" (he was alone) had "priors" and, "not speaking" throughout all the crimes - a pattern (attacking from behind) etc. etc. similar "neck injuries" etc.
The State will argue DNA on CG & JR linking Telstra work pants/shorts and also DNA from Telstra work vehicles which BRE had access to at the time.

There is lots to come out yet in Affidavits from - Wife 1 - Partner in Noranda - Defacto CG.... plus more affidavits Carmel handed over just recently including, many that have not been reported in main stream media.

It would not surprise me and, if BRE wants it to all go away (from his head) and live the rest of his life making Matchstick Motorbikes inside the Slammer...... He may still plead guilty to the 3 homicides. (then, the State will not release all the witness evidence). The public will never know details.
It will come out in a dragged out - long - slow as - Trial with Judge Hall........ starting in about 20 days.

If BRE is convicted of the 3 homicides - the penaltiies for the sexual assaults etc (5 Guilty pleas) become almost academic as they will be ordered to be served concurrently with the Life Imprisonment order with no eligibility of parole.

The State will argue DNA on CG & JR linking Telstra work pants/shorts and also DNA from Telstra work vehicles which BRE had access to at the time.

What DNA was found on JR? As far as i am aware it's all fiber evidence for her.

 

[Eaglette01]

What DNA was found on JR? As far as i am aware it's all fiber evidence for her.

Yes, Fibre - Telstra shorts and Telstra interior carpet Car fibres linking the two. I've amended - should have proof read. It is, however, "linked evidence" as I was trying to say. Thanks, someone do a "white board" linking please

 

[Krusty Crab]

Here you go.

Acknowledge Conditions Of Use - eCourts Portal

ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au

CG is the second wife of the accused ....... CG states that the accused is adept at knots and that she first noticed this when he showed her how to release a knot on a tarpaulin. She says that the accused made clotheslines at the house they lived in and that he used cable that was from Telstra.

it says he used cable from telstra. that doesn't necessarily mean phone cable. Telstra would have a variety of cable available, including rope used as pull cable to draw wires through conduits. CG might also call rope 'cable' for all we know, so it could of been phone cable but also might not of been. doesnt matter now as he has plead guilty to the KK attack.

 

[Likeamystery]

When you think about it most people would hate having a long-drawn out trial revealing all the horrid details.

Could it be possible the accused may possibly enjoy all the attention. Although it's negative attention it's still attention.

 

[Krusty Crab]

Whats everyone's thoughts on the possibility for conviction on the murder charge for SS? From what i recall the evidence for this charge is very general in nature and relies mainly on similarities in the three attacks, and propensity. Or could there be something that we dont know about yet which forms a stronger link?

 

[BFew]

Telstra would have a variety of cable available, including rope used as pull cable to draw wires through conduits. CG might also call rope 'cable' for all we know, so it could of been phone cable but also might not of been.

I'd have thought that BRE's 2nd Wife (CG) would have been corrected pretty quickly by her reportedly pedantic husband (the accused), if he'd ever heard her refer to Telstra coloured rope used to pull things (including coaxial cable used for Foxtel/HFC) through Telstra conduits, as "cable".

 

[BonzaRam]

When you think about it most people would hate having a long-drawn out trial revealing all the horrid details.

Could it be possible the accused may possibly enjoy all the attention. Although it's negative attention it's still attention.

The pencil in the ear would imply he isn't enjoying it at all but something i have noticed in a few interviews and court cases with/against serial killers (BTK comes to mind) that i have seen is that they do enjoy retelling their crimes when given the opportunity. Of cause in this case we have a not guilty plea that removes that opportunity...

 

[BonzaRam]

Whats everyone's thoughts on the possibility for conviction on the murder charge for SS? From what i recall the evidence for this charge is very general in nature and relies mainly on similarities in the three attacks, and propensity. Or could there be something that we dont know about yet which forms a stronger link?

To me the SS charge could go either way. From what we know the prosecution only has the propensity evidence to apply to it which makes it hard to separate from the other two CSK victims but on the other hand there are a lot of missing women in WA so how do you prove it is not another isolated crime like some of the others?

 

[Isabelle]

Judge only trial, so we can rule that out as a ploy. He's relying on Legal Aid so it might be as simple as "we haven't got the resources to fight all the charges, I suggest you plead guilty to the 'lesser' offences so I can focus on getting you acquitted of the three murder charges."

That makes sense.

 

[zedx]

Whats everyone's thoughts on the possibility for conviction on the murder charge for SS? From what i recall the evidence for this charge is very general in nature and relies mainly on similarities in the three attacks, and propensity. Or could there be something that we dont know about yet which forms a stronger link?

I don't know because I still don't understand how they can charge/link him with SS's murder/disappearance based on basic similarities to the other two murders. Is there something they are not telling us? I would hope they have some pretty strong evidence they have held back. I have always wondered how they linked her in the first place as she basically disappeared without a trace. As far as we know anything could have happened to her!

 

[tapdancingbear]

Whats everyone's thoughts on the possibility for conviction on the murder charge for SS? From what i recall the evidence for this charge is very general in nature and relies mainly on similarities in the three attacks, and propensity. Or could there be something that we dont know about yet which forms a stronger link?

Based on whats been shown so far I don't think there is any chance of a conviction on the SS case , im not sure they will get convictions on both of the others either , buit thats only based on the evidence thats been shown to this point

 

[Kurve]

I don't know because I still don't understand how they can charge/link him with SS's murder/disappearance based on basic similarities to the other two murders. Is there something they are not telling us? I would hope they have some pretty strong evidence they have held back. I have always wondered how they linked her in the first place as she basically disappeared without a trace. As far as we know anything could have happened to her!

I think there's something else, I could take a wild guess at what it might be. There were reports at some stage (I cant remember absolutely everything) that a victim of a rape was taunted by her attacker later by phone and there was a question as to how he got her phone number. I can't recall if it was the Karrakatta victim but it might be a clue as to how these monsters minds work. And he is the Telstra tech with access to private phone numbers and addresses.

We know the victims families? received a lot of phone calls from cranks and psychics. What if they've found evidence of their phone numbers in his files somewhere or evidence of him having dialled any of those numbers? Seems unlikely all this time later that evidence may have been found but stranger things have happened.

That's information Telstra might try and have shut down, suppressed. IMO.

Just a guess.

 

[Likeamystery]

I think there's something else, I could take a wild guess at what it might be. There were reports at some stage (I cant remember absolutely everything) that a victim of a rape was taunted by her attacker later by phone and there was a question as to how he got her phone number. I can't recall if it was the Karrakatta victim but it might be a clue as to how these monsters minds work. And he is the Telstra tech with access to private phone numbers and addresses.

We know the victims families? received a lot of phone calls from cranks and psychics. What if they've found evidence of their phone numbers in his files somewhere or evidence of him having dialled any of those numbers? Seems unlikely all this time later that evidence may have been found but stranger things have happened.

That's information Telstra might try and have shut down, suppressed. IMO.

Just a guess.

If you recall after SS went missing DS mentioned in an article, he’d received a phone call. The caller mentioned SSs body was north upon a large hectare of land. Although DS had received many phone calls, he felt this may have been authentic.

Perhaps DS recorded the time and date and Macro requested Telstra look into where the phone call initiated from. They may have discovered it came from Telstra. Though a Telstra technician would realize whether or not it could be traced.

 

[Kurve]

Perhaps DS recorded the time and date and Macro requested Telstra look into where the phone call initiated from. They may have discovered it came from Telstra. Though a Telstra technician would realize whether or not it could be traced.

It would surprise me if Don Spiers was the only one who received harassing phone calls and if after that particularly nasty one they weren't from then on recorded if not before, via their handset at the home rather than from the exchange. I don't know how it might have been done in the mid 90s.

If there's anything in that 1.5 million pages of documents the state has that he made any phone calls to the victims/families it would be pretty good evidence.

 

[Kurve]

The article which refers to a rape victim having received a call from someone identifying himself as her attacker has been supplied and posted by BFew in the MEDIA THREAD. Thanks B.

BRE hasn't been charged with that offence far as we know but he does get a mention.

 

[Likeamystery]

The article which refers to a rape victim having received a call from someone identifying himself as her attacker has been supplied and posted by BFew in the MEDIA THREAD. Thanks B.

BRE hasn't been charged with that offence far as we know but he does get a mention.

I'm surprised the media were able to publish it. The article isn't exactly saying he's responsible, but seems quite suggestive. Is this woman able to give evidence?

 

[Kurve]

I'm surprised the media were able to publish it. The article isn't exactly saying he's responsible, but seems quite suggestive. Is this woman able to give evidence?

He may have been cleared, they might have lost the rape kit or one wasn't taken. I only remembered the article when thinking about what more they could have on him regards Sarah Spiers that might be hidden.

If there was a federal investigation into whether he exploited his position, accessed Telstra information and their infrastructure in the commission of crime we might not know about it. Yet.

 

[one eyed spy]

Is this woman able to give evidence?

I suspect she is 1 of the 4 unknowns covered by the 12 suppression orders we've heard about.

 

[Kurve]

I suspect she is 1 of the 4 unknowns covered by the 12 suppression orders we've heard about.

Looking at the article again, it might read that she didn't report the rape straight away which a lot of women for various reasons don't do but when he started ringing her at home, felt she had to make the report?

 

[one eyed spy]

Looking at the article again, it might read that she didn't report the rape straight away which a lot of women for various reasons don't do but when he started ringing her at home, felt she had to make the report?

That would be my interpretation from the wording too.
I doubted they'd bother to mention police weren't sure how he obtained her number if she'd only contacted them for the first time after arrest as it'd be a fairly logical assumption he may have had means to get it working for Telstra. I attributed her 'revived memories' as relating to his arrest specifically.

Now I'm considering whether the Telstra 'answer' was the main reason she rang?

Assuming if they had forensics they'd be matched already & we'd have heard, so unless she can ID either him or his car, there may not be alot she can contribute & may not appear at all.
I was confident about her from the start but its just as likely I'm wrong.

 

[BonzaRam]

If you recall after SS went missing DS mentioned in an article, he’d received a phone call. The caller mentioned SSs body was north upon a large hectare of land. Although DS had received many phone calls, he felt this may have been authentic.

Perhaps DS recorded the time and date and Macro requested Telstra look into where the phone call initiated from. They may have discovered it came from Telstra. Though a Telstra technician would realize whether or not it could be traced.

Don Spiers did mention getting phonecalls from psychics and abusive phonecalls from the public, there may be, as Shelley has suggested, something in them 1.5 million documents that we don't know about yet.

It was the harassment from supposed psychics he complained about most as it drove him into a deeper depression and I am sure everyone remembers the so called psychic task force event held at the Burswood Casino...

"He said the relentless approaches from clairvoyants and the false hope they created had led him to have a breakdown late in 1996, when he found himself sitting in an armchair at his home ripping chunks of hair from his scalp.

…As he struggled with depression, he continued to fend off clairvoyants and psychics and was even abused over the phone by members of the public. “We had phone calls from people saying we are the perpetrators or saying that we deserve it,” he said. "

I am saddened and disgusted by this......................

The Psychic Taskforce Article from: PerthNow July 14, 2008 10:00pm This event brings together Australias most accurate psychic- Scott Russell Hill, with the man dubbed Australias Ghost Whisperer - medium Anthony Grzelka and one of Australias leading psychic detectives - Debbie Malone. Scott Russe...

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