Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[zedx]

Not all her friends said she was "drunk".
What you've said is what I've been saying all along if you read my past posts.

yes I was agreeing with you. I think the 'better' word to use maybe 'tipsy' ?

 

[sprockets]

Dumas House is a government building and it was built to centralise all WA Government departments ministers and senior bureaucrats close to Parliament House - so it's a client site not a Telstra site.

Telstra may have had a permanent room or rooms there for workshops, considering the amount of phones, faxes, etc that would be in a place like that. They likely based themselves there and may or may not have either permanently manned the place or based themselves there and went to 'call-outs' from there and came back.

When I worked for NCR we had bases, permanent rooms/workshops, at each of the major banks' headquarters and would go to call-outs from there, but our priority were the banks and if we were busy there other techs would do the call-outs.

 

[PaulSubetro]

so there appears to be no pay phones on stirling hwy after claremont untill you get to peppermint grove?
But I would imagine back in 1997 there would have been more public phone boxes?

Nope.

 

[PaulSubetro]

That's a ridiculous statement to make

you should go back and read your last statement. There's more chance she was abducted by aliens.

 

[PaulSubetro]

How can you say "She was not intending to call a taxi"?

there were two phone boxes she could have used and chose not to.

There was usually a queue at the Post office phone box so may as well walk down to the highway and hail a cab.

Let's not make stuff up. There was a row of about 6 phone boxes. I never saw a queue there ever.

Her mother had warned her about the the two missing young women so she was well aware.

But she didn't live through the hysteria. She was aware but clearly not aware enough, otherwise she would have called a cab and waited at Conti.

I'm a local and I'm putting myself in Ciara's shoes. I've met a member of her family so have a pretty good idea what sort of person she was. She wasn't stupid, and a person of her intelligence and being a streetwise smart young lawyer would be extremely unlikely to hitch-hike alone at night - and she would have had money to call a cab. Not all locals know where the pay phones are, I'm one and I struggle to know.

Evidence says she's not streetwise. She walked alone at night with a serial killer on the loose.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Yes, it was very different back then, more pay phones around as not many people had mobile phones. They've since removed a fair few of them.

But none of these extra phone boxes were between Stirling Rd and Jarrod St.

There was one on cnr Reginald/Broome and one at the main gates of the civic centre but not another one on the highway.

 

[kingswood71]

Don't know if I'm using correct terminology but I'm sure I read in the submissions that BRE was sharing house with his brother during charges 7 & 8 (Jane and Ciara).

The defense did file an "alibi notice"....I think it refers to the Parents home in Huntingdale.
The first wife said she had a call from the RSPCA to get her dog as it was left at their Huntingdale home and no one was living there. I dont think they specified an actual date.
It will be interesting to see if someone puts forward an actual alibi. The prosecution would likely challenge the alibi anyway as memories would be hazy....unless the alibi has good proof. I dont think a simple statement such as "he couldnt have done it because that night we were home watching Hey Hey Its Saturday" would suffice.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Telstra may have had a permanent room or rooms there for workshops, considering the amount of phones, faxes, etc that would be in a place like that. They likely based themselves there and may or may not have either permanently manned the place or based themselves there and went to 'call-outs' from there and came back.

When I worked for NCR we had bases, permanent rooms/workshops, at each of the major banks' headquarters and would go to call-outs from there, but our priority were the banks and if we were busy there other techs would do the call-outs.

I remember reading that Murray Cook got perm stationed at RPH. Once that happened they took his car off him because he was no longer a field technician. BRE was working at Dumas but obviously still had field work or other client sites to attend. They definitely would have had space designated to Telstra inside the building.

 

[BFew]

Yes, it was very different back then, more pay phones around as not many people had mobile phones. They've since removed a fair few of them.

Was their a payphone next to the KFC in Cottesloe when it was alive?

 

[Hai_Newman]

Was their a payphone next to the KFC in Cottesloe when it was alive?

I worked at the Grove Shopping centre around that time and there was some there.

 

[marlinwater]

there were two phone boxes she could have used and chose not to.


Let's not make stuff up. There was a row of about 6 phone boxes. I never saw a queue there ever.

But she didn't live through the hysteria. She was aware but clearly not aware enough, otherwise she would have called a cab and waited at Conti.

Evidence says she's not streetwise. She walked alone at night with a serial killer on the loose.

To me it was a very sad case of misjudgement - not staying with her friends, getting on the way to being drunk, talking to strangers in cars, walking along any road by yourself late at night, not having an arrangement to get home.

 

[BFew]

To me it was a very sad case of misjudgement - not staying with her friends, getting on the way to being drunk, talking to strangers in cars, walking along any road by yourself late at night, not having an arrangement to get home.

To me it is a very sad and brutal murder, and I hope that Justice is served on whoever the perpetrator was.

 

[marlinwater]

To me it is a very sad and brutal murder, and I hope that Justice is served on whoever the perpetrator was.

That might not happen, but there are lessons to be learnt for everyone.

 

[PaulSubetro]

To me it was a very sad case of misjudgement - not staying with her friends, getting on the way to being drunk, talking to strangers in cars, walking along any road by yourself late at night, not having an arrangement to get home.

Yep. It's a small mistake with the ultimate price. If only she could have her time again.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I worked at the Grove Shopping centre around that time and there was some there.

It's sort of not relevant. She's not going to walk 2km over a big hill to get to a phone box when there's two closer. She may have had a thing where if she didn't get a taxi or ride by the time she got there, she called her parents to come get her.

 

[PaulSubetro]

There wasn't a taxi rank at the Conti back then and only one pay phone which you had to queue up for. They only installed taxi ranks after she went missing. I know, I'm a rate paying local and remember all the fuss about there not being enough taxis in Claremont. I regularly ate dinner at the Italian restaurant next door to the Conti on weekends and went to the Conti on Sundays.

I was referring to calling a taxi from the pay phones across the road then waiting at the Conti where people were. But I think you'll find there was a taxi rank across the road at Claremont station but you'd never get a taxi waiting there on a weekend night. There just wasn't near enough taxis in Perth at the time.

 

[Hai_Newman]

It's sort of not relevant. She's not going to walk 2km over a big hill to get to a phone box when there's two closer. She may have had a thing where if she didn't get a taxi or ride by the time she got there, she called her parents to come get her.

It was relevant to BFew 's question asking if there was a phone box near KFC in Cott.

 

[Kurve]

If she was going to call a taxi she could have from the post office. If she wanted to use the phone on Stirling St she would have walked down St Quentins. She would not have been on the south side of the highway.

She was not intending to call a taxi. Furthermore she's a local, she'd know where the phone boxes are and aren't.

In those days it was a better option to walk the highway to get a taxi. She also could have been hitching. Just because she was on the highway it doesn't mean she was intending on walking home.

You could also listen to a female of that generation on what a female might have done in Ciara's position that night because we've probably been stuck before trying to get home and may have insight.

 

[Kurve]

there were two phone boxes she could have used and chose not to.

Its a fair question to ask after Ms Mabbott's testimony of seeing Ciara on the other side of the road walking into oncoming traffic. Why did she cross the road? You might dismiss Ms Mabbott's testimony but I'm keeping an open mind in that it's quite possible she did.

I don't think she's stupid and what she did would normally be reasonable. Lot's of people made this walk. You just couldn't trust calling a taxi back then. You might wait 2 hours and it not show. She probably got home this way many times before she went OS.

Yet Sarah's taxi came within three minutes.

 

[BFew]

why did she cross the road?

Easier to find and see an empty taxi when facing the traffic, and the taxi is not coming from nearer to Bay View Terrace,
where any other people doing likewise are likely to have already snaffled any empty ones.

Less competition for any empty taxis coming from Cottesloe way,
on that stretch West of Stirling Road, going up the hill on the Northern side of Stirling Hwy.

But, if you were trying to hitchhike a ride to Mosman Park Way, you'd not be doing it from the Northern side of Stirling Highway.

 

[Kurve]

Easier to find and see an empty taxi when facing the traffic, and the taxi is not coming from nearer to Bay View Terrace,
where any other people doing likewise are likely to have already snaffled any empty ones.

What I really want to know is, was the payphone that Sarah used still on Stirling Road and did the cops check it for evidence of tampering? Was it in working order?

Because if it was still there, IMO she may have crossed the road to use it.

 

[BFew]

Yet Sarah's taxi came within three minutes.

Just after 2am on a Friday night of a long weekend.
Ciara Glennon was last seen just after midnight on a normal Friday night.
Not sure if that made any difference.

Were there any materially less taxis on the road in March 1997, compared to January 1996?

Or less taxis willing to go to pick up in Claremont by March 1997 after 2 young women had already gone missing/murdered.

 

[PaulSubetro]

You could also listen to a female of that generation on what a female might have done in Ciara's position that night because we've probably been stuck before trying to get home and may have insight.

I would except I get the feeling certain people are hell bent on convincing themselves that the two females involved (Mabbott and CG) couldn't possibly have made a mistake or done anything wrong.

I've been in the exact same situation I'd say over 50 times. Not once did I cross over to the dark side of the road. Not once did I see anyone else choose to walk on the dark side.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Just after 2am on a Friday night of a long weekend.
Ciara Glennon was last seen just after midnight on a normal Friday night.
Not sure if that made any difference.

Were there any materially less taxis on the road in March 1997, compared to January 1996?

Or less taxis willing to go to pick up in Claremont by March 1997 after 2 young women had already gone missing/murdered.

The times make no difference. SS was an anomaly. No one trusted taxis to arrive any time soon back then.

 

[PaulSubetro]

What I really want to know is, was the payphone that Sarah used still on Stirling Road and did the cops check it for evidence of tampering? Was it in working order?

Because if it was still there, IMO she may have crossed the road to use it.

Highly likely they checked it. Highly unlikely it was out of order and even more unlikely that if that phone box had any relevance that we wouldn't know about it.

Police:

"We think CG got in the car the burger boys saw. There's another unconfirmed report CG was witness up near the horseshoe bridge".

She walked a route that suggested she had no intention of using a pay phone. Could have she been spooked and changed her mind? Maybe but you'd think she'd go back to where the people are. Even if she did change her mind there is no evidence she used that phone which means she was blitzed before she got to that phone box (i.e. in the middle of a big intersection).

The phone box and the Congdon exchange are nothingness.

If anyone lives around there, try driving down the highway at midnight. You'll notice a massive different in darkness between the two sides (particularly just north of the horseshoe).