Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[donpyke92]

so your thinking Ciara lost some hair in the struggle and this was found with 2 blue fiber included, and the notation of no cutting instruments was to document that the exhibit wasn't attached to anything? what would be the gain in making it noted that this sample was loose and didn't require cutting? yovich has been at the cops about what they were wearing, trying to infer the fibers came from police clothing. if you have a police officer with a dark blue outfit on near a sample that contained dark blue fibers, wouldn't you want to pre-empt and push a narrative that limits the chance of the police officer dropping dark blue fibers?

The gain might be just telling the truth..

 

[Sepai]

The couple who were woken by screams at midnight lived a kilometre away from where Jane was found. They "heard a very high pitched and traumatic voice of a woman. The man only heard one voice and it went on for a while. The only words he recalled hearing were "Leave me alone. Let me out of here" - and it was very plain and very traumatic".

We live in a world where a lot of people don't want to get involved. That's why they say shout fire if your being attacked. A call to 000 is what you do. The Police would have had this on file at least. BRE has had a charmed life. He keeps his job after the HH attack. Then the Police have their number one suspect. It reminds me of Mallard.

 

[kingswood71]

so your thinking Ciara lost some hair in the struggle and this was found with 2 blue fiber included, and the notation of no cutting instruments was to document that the exhibit wasn't attached to anything? what would be the gain in making it noted that this sample was loose and didn't require cutting? yovich has been at the cops about what they were wearing, trying to infer the fibers came from police clothing. if you have a police officer with a dark blue outfit on near a sample that contained dark blue fibers, wouldn't you want to pre-empt and push a narrative that limits the chance of the police officer dropping dark blue fibers?

RH17 is a key exhibit apparently as its a pristine sample. I take this to mean that the prosecution is stating that from the time of collection until it was examined in 2018-2019 it was never opened. Its a completely separate hair sample to the others. I think cutting v just collected is important as it likely means it was handled less and the lack of cutting would remove any possibility of contamination by scissors.

"yovich has been at the cops about what they were wearing, trying to infer the fibers came from police clothing. if you have a police officer with a dark blue outfit on near a sample that contained dark blue fibers, wouldn't you want to pre-empt and push a narrative that limits the chance of the police officer dropping dark blue fibers?"......If I knew that the fibres from WAPOL uniforms or WAPOL Yakka overalls were scientifically different to the blue polyester and blue rayon fibres found and I was going to present the evidence that proves this, I wouldnt care what Yovich says.

 

[JWS2019]

so your thinking Ciara lost some hair in the struggle and this was found with 2 blue fiber included, and the notation of no cutting instruments was to document that the exhibit wasn't attached to anything? what would be the gain in making it noted that this sample was loose and didn't require cutting? yovich has been at the cops about what they were wearing, trying to infer the fibers came from police clothing. if you have a police officer with a dark blue outfit on near a sample that contained dark blue fibers, wouldn't you want to pre-empt and push a narrative that limits the chance of the police officer dropping dark blue fibers?

This is the part I don’t get - from both sides (as a layman and not understanding the judicial process).

I suppose the defence and prosecution will layout on why or why not this is Telstra fibre soon.

IMO it would be better to do this first and save all the confusion and state that said fibre is “Telstra navy”. (Well better for me anyway!)

 

[JWS2019]

An ex of mine who was a judge gave me the same advice, not that I've needed it so far but everyone should know this.

Thanks for the share - interesting and I will now take this advice as someone who PREVIOUSLY thought; I’ve got nothing to lose by talking.

 

[JWS2019]

He was asked if he was "familiar" with the Claremont area (not do you frequent the Claremont area) and he initially responded with "a little bit". I would call that a lie or deception given what we now know. He later admitted he had an association with the area.

Taking Jezzas video in consideration - maybe not a lie as such.
Putting into perspective time frame of almost 30 years. And he worked briefly there as a younger person maybe you would say a little bit.

 

[kingswood71]

This is the part I don’t get - from both sides (as a layman and not understanding the judicial process).

I suppose the defence and prosecution will layout on why or why not this is Telstra fibre soon.

IMO it would be better to do this first and save all the confusion and state that said fibre is “Telstra navy”. (Well better for me anyway!)

Telstra Navy will be only part of the story. The other part will be fibre composition. Allegedly the fibres were polyester, no mention of polyester/cotton blend. Under an electron microscope cotton, cotton/poly and just poly look completely different.


(Cotton green, poly orange). As poly is a man made fibre, it has a uniform shape. Cotton doesnt.
I am quietly confident that WAPOL overalls as made by Yakka would have been cotton/poly....Perhaps the Telstra pants are 100% poly?
And then the defense is left having to cast doubt over the grey fibres too.

 

[trawlerman]

An ex of mine who was a judge gave me the same advice, not that I've needed it so far but everyone should know this.

I was hauled me in for questioning and asked to do a recorded interview on the basis that I would only be charged if it was in the public interest.
I knew it wasn't in the publics best interests, so I was interviewed and at the end one of the three officers said "you did the right thing". They conferred for 30 seconds and then said "you're going to be charged".
During the pre trial hearings, the chief magistrate Steven Heath even said to the prosecutor "are you sure you want to proceed because he is only facing a small fine even if he is found guilty"
Six months after being arrested and charged, on the morning of the trial, the cops rang me up to say in court they are withdrawing the charge.
I said why and they said because it was too serious for the magistrates court and would be heard higher up where the penalties are higher.
I was awrded $50 costs to cover my parking for the four times I went to court. A lawyer said I wouldn't get much change from $10,000 if I engaged him.
That was 15 years ago and I haven't heard from police about it again.

 

[trawlerman]

If I knew that the fibres from WAPOL uniforms or WAPOL Yakka overalls were scientifically different to the blue polyester and blue rayon fibres found and I was going to present the evidence that proves this, I wouldnt care what Yovich says.

Wouldn't it be best if Carmel keeps pointing this out to the judge that she has an expert witness to say police were wearing clothes made of different fibres to those worn by Telstra workers.

 

[trawlerman]

I can understand his parents staying by him, supporting THEIR child, they don't condone what he did but still love their child.

I'm sorry about what you're going thru.
Maybe BRE hasn't told his parents the truth. Loose lips sink ships. He can't tell anyone.
He's gambling tho, because he may have their support for these few years while he's the suspect, but they could disown him if he's the killer and then not ever see him in jail.
I can understand him lying to them, but they may find it hard to support him knowing what he did to many girls.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Taking Jezzas video in consideration - maybe not a lie as such.
Putting into perspective time frame of almost 30 years. And he worked briefly there as a younger person maybe you would say a little bit.

He knew it enough to lie in wait in Rowe Park. He knew it enough to find an isolated spot in the cemo. And even if that night happened to be the first time he'd been there in years, after that night he was somewhat familiar.

Semantics aside, it's going to be seen as a lie to cover up his crime/s.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I am quietly confident that WAPOL overalls as made by Yakka would have been cotton/poly....Perhaps the Telstra pants are 100% poly?
And then the defense is left having to cast doubt over the grey fibres too.

Who would have thought Telstra shorts were eshay.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Wouldn't it be best if Carmel keeps pointing this out to the judge that she has an expert witness to say police were wearing clothes made of different fibres to those worn by Telstra workers.

I don't think the expert has testified yet. I think she'll just put the expert up there, he/she will confidently say they are different materials and that's that. Yovo might cross examine or pull his own expert, although if they are clearly different it would be hard to convince an expert to testify that 2 + 2 = 5.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I'm sorry about what you're going thru.
Maybe BRE hasn't told his parents the truth. Loose lips sink ships. He can't tell anyone.
He's gambling tho, because he may have their support for these few years while he's the suspect, but they could disown him if he's the killer and then not ever see him in jail.
I can understand him lying to them, but they may find it hard to support him knowing what he did to many girls.

I doubt he told them. He may have even told them he didn't do the kk rape but just pleaded guilty as a strategy to get off. I definitely think he hasn't told them he did the murders (assuming he did them). If he gets found guilty I think he'll still claim innocence. He'll leave his family in limbo - deep down they'll know he did it but because he won't admit it they have to believe him. That's akin to torture.

 

[JWS2019]

Telstra Navy will be only part of the story. The other part will be fibre composition. Allegedly the fibres were polyester, no mention of polyester/cotton blend. Under an electron microscope cotton, cotton/poly and just poly look completely different.
View attachment 808070
View attachment 808072
(Cotton green, poly orange). As poly is a man made fibre, it has a uniform shape. Cotton doesnt.
I am quietly confident that WAPOL overalls as made by Yakka would have been cotton/poly....Perhaps the Telstra pants are 100% poly?
And then the defense is left having to cast doubt over the grey fibres too.

Let’s hope yakka didn’t contract any other uniforms in the same fabric ?

What if another business went yeah I like that and they said yes we can do in this same material and colour? We’ve got heaps left over ?

 

[PaulSubetro]

Let’s hope yakka didn’t contract any other uniforms in the same fabric ?

What if another business went yeah I like that and they said yes we can do in this same material and colour? We’ve got heaps left over ?

Does anyone know where Yakka manufacture? Are they domestic or Asia?

 

[JWS2019]

Does anyone know where Yakka manufacture? Are they domestic or Asia?

Good question hopefully not Asia or we could have a problem!
I’d say Aussie though at least in the 90’s.

 

[kingswood71]

Wouldn't it be best if Carmel keeps pointing this out to the judge that she has an expert witness to say police were wearing clothes made of different fibres to those worn by Telstra workers.

Thats coming up in evidence...we arent there yet

 

[JWS2019]

Does anyone know where Yakka manufacture? Are they domestic or Asia?

minimal research completed at this point. In 2007 (per below article) :

Hard yakka always in style

How many Victorian businesses have been owned by the same family for more than 60 years, have a national brand that is an industry leader and are thriving despite intense import competition?, writes Richard Webb.

www.google.com.au

“Yakka manufactures 65 per cent of its clothing offshore (roughly equally split between China, Indonesia and Fiji), with the balance produced in Australia.”

 

[kingswood71]

Let’s hope yakka didn’t contract any other uniforms in the same fabric ?

What if another business went yeah I like that and they said yes we can do in this same material and colour? We’ve got heaps left over ?

I think this would have been explored already by the prosecution. They claim that the Telstra Navy fabric is unique to Telstra. I couldnt imagine that they would not have already ascertained this prior to saying it.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Let’s hope yakka didn’t contract any other uniforms in the same fabric ?

What if another business went yeah I like that and they said yes we can do in this same material and colour? We’ve got heaps left over ?

I did a check on Australian trademarks but didn't find an exact match for Telstra Blue or Telecom Blue. I did find Telstra Bluey (Some advertising character?) and also stuff to do with telecom phone box colours.

The colour may not be trademarked, but it's very likely the fabric supplier would have a contract to exclusively supply the fabric and colour to Yakka under Telstra specification.

 

[kingswood71]

minimal research completed at this point. In 2007 (per below article) :

Hard yakka always in style

How many Victorian businesses have been owned by the same family for more than 60 years, have a national brand that is an industry leader and are thriving despite intense import competition?, writes Richard Webb.

www.google.com.au

“Yakka manufactures 65 per cent of its clothing offshore (roughly equally split between China, Indonesia and Fiji), with the balance produced in Australia.”

Sorry, long post, but its from 1996
"Yakka Pty Ltd is a private company owned by the Laidlaw family manufacturing industrial and corporate clothing. The company’s origins date back to 1922 when overalls were manufactured in the back room of the family home in Brunswick, Melbourne. Today Yakka has factories in Brunswick, Shepparton, Wangaratta, Wodonga and Broadmeadows, and a turnover of more than $200 million per year. This represents about 6 per cent of the turnover of the Australian clothing manufacture industry. Yakka and the other major producer, King Gee, shareabout 80 to 85 per cent of the industrial clothing market in Australia. The company has undergone a number of changes in response to the microeconomic reforms of the 1980s and 1990s. Ten years ago clothing manufacturing was a lot more labour-intensive. The company employed over 2000 people a decade ago but now employs 1200 people which is about 3.5 percent of clothing industry employment. In this period productivity has greatly increased as has the quality of Yakka’s products. Productivity improvements are attributed to a variety of factors including the utilisation of new technologies, employee productivity linked incentives and a change in the manufacturing process. The manufacturing process has gone from a piece-work assembly line
process to a just-in-time (JIT) process. This means garments are made to fulfil orders as they come in, thus reducing the need to hold large inventories. The JIT process has been facilitated by technological advances at the distribution stage of the manufacturing process. Yakka now has state-of-the-art warehousing and distribution technology including an electronic system for customer ordering, bar-coding, carousel picking, garment management systems and a portable data entry system. This has increased Yakka’s ability to deliver their products faster with greater emphasis on customer needs. The company can now distribute 25 000 garments a day with only 14 employees within 48 hours of the garments being ordered. Yakka uses computer aided design, computerised pattern making systems and computer aided cutting machines in the early stages of its
manufacturing process to help improve productivity. The sewing process has also changed over the last decade. Sewers, working in teams, now work on more than one stage of garment production using more than one machine. This minimises time losses caused by machine breakdown, as well as increasing employee satisfaction. Each team has a daily target to reach and incentives include the possibility of an early finish once the targets are achieved. The company is also looking to improve labour efficiency as part of its enterprise agreements.
Yakka has also changed its marketing and production arrangements. For example, the company ended a 15 year marketing relationship with Faberge USA jeans in 1995 but continued to market Lee jeans which are now made in China (having
shifted from Wodonga). The management sees the company’s future in the industrial clothing market, complemented by producing corporate apparel. Large companies increasingly want ‘image’ work wear with their corporate logo displayed. This market is growing at double-digit rates in Australia, whereas the traditional industrial wear market is growing at single-digit rates. Yakka’s first corporate apparel customer was Telstra in 1991. Other customers are now Australia Post, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Pizza Hut and the NSW Health Department." (The changing of Australian Manufacturing, Clark et al 1996).
As far as I can work out, Yakka made the Telstra clothes using fabric made by Australian Textile Mills and Bruck textiles. As far as I know (so far) the uniforms were a specific order of specific fabrics unique to Telstra.

 

[kingswood71]

I did a check on Australian trademarks but didn't find an exact match for Telstra Blue or Telecom Blue. I did find Telstra Bluey (Some advertising character?) and also stuff to do with telecom phone box colours.

The colour may not be trademarked, but it's very likely the fabric supplier would have a contract to exclusively supply the fabric and colour to Yakka under Telstra specification.

And lets not forget that its NOT one type of blue fibre, there are 2 types. The blue polyester fibres that are allegedly from the pants and the non-delustered blue rayon fibres from the shorts.

 

[Power Raid]

I can in a similar way understand his parents, sad to say, I have a situation with one of my children atm, which I know its true and have sought help for them (which worked at first and has now back fired on me), that I find really hard to fathom, I've cried every day for the last year, can't tell my friends because I'm mortified and because, I just cant believe it, but I know its true. Of course nothing like BRE's situation, but I can understand his parents staying by him, supporting THEIR child, they don't condone what he did but still love their child.

Yep

You may not like what a family member did, or even may not like them, however the concept of family means you support them and may even love them no matter what.


Sorry to hear your struggle

 

[Power Raid]

A tampon is a possibility and shouldn't discounted but there other possibilities, such as a IUD perhaps or as you say the killer may have left a signature...

Or something to promote insects/ maggots to eat DNA evidence and evidence of rape