Current Claremont Murders - The Bunker

[BlueE]

Still the general if not immediate area when illegal street racers are driving at 200 kmph on long stretches of road, it's only 7.5 minutes away.

But it stopped not far up the road from Hillarys in 1997.

Marmion Ave didn't connect with Pippinny until years later. Nothing to do with CSK at all.

 

[Kurve]

But it stopped not far up the road from Hillarys in 1997.

Marmion Ave didn't connect with Pippinny until years later. Nothing to do with CSK at all.

We can be pretty sure the areas he left the girls in were pre chosen, he didnt just go for a drive around somewhere he'd never been before and think 'ok' I might just stop here. He'd been there before.

A Telstra knife was found near Jane, it's vitally important the prosecution can place him at some point near where Ciara was found if they can and I'd expect them to leave no stone unturned. If he went to the speedway as it's been suggested many times and we know Pipidinny Road was used for illegal street drags, it's perfectly logical if they can't peg him there for work or other purpose, that it may well have been to either participate in or watch the drags.

 

[Willow weeps]

There's been some wondering about how investigators tracked these people who were involved in illegal street drags down. That could be one way, by opening the police file on these deaths and contacting anybody who's name came up.

Also this news clipping which I've posted before but won't hurt to post it again I think. Gives an idea of the culture at the time although this is late 80s.

I know it's inappropriate to do so, but I laughed a little to myself when the girl stated that "it's not like they're out murdering people or anything"

 

[SimonSays77]

There's been some wondering about how investigators tracked these people who were involved in illegal street drags down. That could be one way, by opening the police file on these deaths and contacting anybody who's name came up.

Also this news clipping which I've posted before but won't hurt to post it again I think. Gives an idea of the culture at the time although this is late 80s.

the south frementle 1987 hoon show - you really have a thing for bring this up dont you?

 

[Badge666]

Prosecutors say Edwards had a work association with Cottesloe, was involved with swimming championships in the area , and worked out of Congdon St exchange.
This is the first have heard about any swimming championships, ,,,assume it would have to be at the Perth Superdome in Claremont. How was he involved....an official. a photogroper, selling hot dogs in the stands,,,,can't find any records of him competing....must have been during the nineties .....
Also mentioned that he frequented the Leederville Hotel.....hmmmm definitely the most popular weekend venue for a time there in the nineties,,,is pencil sharpener queuing up and paying his eight bucks cover charge like a regular punter on a Friday night...hmmmm

 

[Kurve]

Also you say we know Pipidinny Rd was used for illegal drags ... but was it? It was a winding, poorly lit, minor road that was basically a fishing track leading to a beach and nothing to do with the speedway or illegal street drags. There is nothing to say the accused was involved in illegal street drags in his work vechicle or wife's run around vehicle either.

The information Pipidinny Rd was used for illegal drags came from locals and people who are familiar with the area. That appeared to be confirmed on hearing local chat the police were tracking down people who were involved in it.

It wasn't all winding even if one end petered off to the beach. The car that hit the basketballers had it's headlights off so I don't think illegal street racers are worried about poorly lit roads.

Are you a local? And do you know anything about the illegal street drag culture and how they operate? I suspect not or you would know as soon as there is a accident/fatality and/or the police show up they don't go back there. At the end of a night, the next location is generally chosen out of a few and participants are told where to meet up. They rotate to keep the police blind to where they will drag next.

As per PeteDavo's post, we will probably be hearing through the trial that BRE attended Claremont Speedway. Were you aware that Barbagallo Raceway is close to Eglinton? If he was a fan of speedway and car or bike racing, he probably went there as well.

If we're talking about trying to place BRE in Eglinton, it's a relevant discussion. And I'm pretty sure it's got more relevance than whatever GNOSIS is although I'm looking forward to an explanation.

 

[BlueE]

The information Pipidinny Rd was used for illegal drags came from locals and people who are familiar with the area. That appeared to be confirmed on hearing local chat the police were tracking down people who were involved in it.

It wasn't all winding even if one end petered off to the beach. The car that hit the basketballers had it's headlights off so I don't think illegal street racers are worried about poorly lit roads.

Are you a local? And do you know anything about the illegal street drag culture and how they operate? I suspect not or you would know as soon as there is a accident/fatality and/or the police show up they don't go back there. At the end of a night, the next location is generally chosen out of a few and participants are told where to meet up. They rotate to keep the police blind to where they will drag next.

As per PeteDavo's post, we will probably be hearing through the trial that BRE attended Claremont Speedway. Were you aware that Barbagallo Raceway is close to Eglinton? If he was a fan of speedway and car or bike racing, he probably went there as well.

If we're talking about trying to place BRE in Eglinton, it's a relevant discussion. And I'm pretty sure it's got more relevance than whatever GNOSIS is although I'm looking forward to an explanation.

I think it has exactly the same relevance as Gnosis! Have to wait until SS77 provides some information and I'll confirm. That is, SFA.

Pippi Rd has no lights (and still doesn't), was mostly a single lane, was hilly where is wasn't winding and according to a witness who saw a strange car come out onto Wanneroo Rd from Pippi a night or two after Ciara's disappearance, it was unusual to see any cars using that road.

Marmion Ave is a double lane dual carriageway which is fully lit and went no where near Pippi road in 1997. Barbegello is north of river but not close to Pippi and not relevant.

Claremont Speedway is relevant putting him in Claremont area during times that the abductions occurred, but doesn't mean he was drag racing himself.

 

[Kurve]

I think it has exactly the same relevance as Gnosis! Have to wait until SS77 provides some information and I'll confirm. That is, SFA.

If the cops are tracking people down and showing them pictures of BRE to try and place him at Eglinton, then it's relevant imo but I'm not over confident and you read as if you are supremely so .. perhaps you could shoot investigators off an email and ask them why they're even bothering?

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

Pippi Rd has no lights (and still doesn't),

All the better for illegal street racing my dear

was mostly a single lane

Ummm?

and according to a witness who saw a strange car come out onto Wanneroo Rd from Pippi a night or two after Ciara's disappearance, it was unusual to see any cars using that road.

"The bricklayer, now 62, said about 4.30am on a Sunday morning in March 1997 he was heading south on Wanneroo Rd, from Yanchep to his work site at Nollamara, when he saw the taxi begin turning out of Pipidinny Rd in front of him."

"He said it was odd to see a taxi in Yanchep area at that time of a Sunday morning, when there was rarely any traffic around."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...death-ng-b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab.amp

 

[Kurve]

Ummm?

Great pic.

I've been all over that road, there's plenty of straight stellar runs for a quarter mile sprint.

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

Great pic.

I've been all over that road, there's plenty of straight stellar runs for a quarter mile sprint. Even a mile.

Good 'ol standard across the board distance. Also plenty of runs to change the distances up. Perfect place for it with quite a few pics out there to suggest that it was and still is a popular place to lay down a track of rubber.

 

[BonzaRam]

Hmmm, seen as I lived and worked in the area back then i can say for a fact that Pipidinny Road was used quite a bit by traffic going between Wanneroo and Burns Beach area but no it wasn't a major thoroughfare, a taxi in the early hours of the morning would have been rare, but not impossible, that whole area along the coast was opening up at the time (not to mention Joondalup was in full construction mode) and many travelling from inland (Wanneroo areas) used these roads to get to the beach etc...
It was most definitely used for illegal drag races, hooning and even dirt bike riders used the scrub land where CG was found, just one of many BACK ROADS that were used out behind Wanneroo. In 1992 Wanneroo raceway was renamed to Barbagallo Raceway Wanneroo after major upgrades to the track, not hard to work out what inspired all that illegal drag racing out in the northern suburbs back then.

I would think a good place for the police to get information would be at the Western Australian Sporting Car Club. They had their finger on the pulse of what was going out that way. I would assume they have already checked for any telstra work going on out that way at time.

It probably should be noted though that Claremont Speedway was dirt track whereas Barabagallo Raceway is a sealed track, two different types of motor racing.

 

[BlueE]

All the better for illegal street racing my dear



Ummm?
View attachment 679229


"The bricklayer, now 62, said about 4.30am on a Sunday morning in March 1997 he was heading south on Wanneroo Rd, from Yanchep to his work site at Nollamara, when he saw the taxi begin turning out of Pipidinny Rd in front of him."

"He said it was odd to see a taxi in Yanchep area at that time of a Sunday morning, when there was rarely any traffic around."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...death-ng-b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab.amp

Thanks for that pic and local report on the taxi Sorbet but no reports on drag racing on Pippi? Just gossip? This picture is on a straight part of the road but is the base of a hill. It was mostly single lane and still is, not far beyond this (now on other side of Marmion Ave).

It's not drag racing that could have bought the accused here but a Telstra work station not far away on opposite side of the road to where Ciara was discovered might have.

Yeah ... so many posts discussing drag racing on Marmion Ave or other paces that a group seems to be obsessed with is tangential to the CSK and concerning for independent thinking or the facts.

 

[Kurve]

Yeah ... so many posts discussing drag racing on Marmion Ave or other paces that a group seems to be obsessed with is tangential to the CSK and concerning for independent thinking or the facts.

If you hadn't jumped in knocking another poster's research and attempting to steer the discussion in your own direction it would have been done with a page back.

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

no reports on drag racing on Pippi? Just gossip?

Below quotes by Bonza have clarified that illegal drag/street racing was happening on Pipidinny Rd. So just gossip?
I'm inclined to believe it's local knowledge.
Which also matches up with information that shellyg was given by locals regarding illegal street racing on that road.

Thanks BonzaRam for sharing your local knowledge once again, regarding Pipidinny road and surrounds.

Hmmm, seen as I lived and worked in the area back then i can say for a fact that Pipidinny Road was used quite a bit by traffic going between Wanneroo and Burns Beach area

It was most definitely used for illegal drag races, hooning

 

[petedavo]

Even if they are complete strangers, that does not mean they were not stalked and targeted. More so based if the accused had passing conversations with staff members of the school and or worked at Iona at one stage.

I think I know who you're talking about.
The speculation has been done to death upon that one already IMO.
Wait to hear what that witness has to say at the trial.
It serves no purpose to speculate any further, and put their job or reputation at risk, unless you know of some credible threat that they'd pose to the community or the safety of the School. In which case, go to the police, and we'll read about it in the paper later.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[BonzaRam]

Really? "Pipidinny Rd was used quite a bit by traffic between and Burns Beach area" Maybe you're remembering something different because Pipidinny Rd was around 15km away as the bird flies from from Burns Beach area.

Wanneroo Rd is marked with circles around the 60 and was the only way to enter Pipi Rd at the time.

It wasn't on the way to anywhere except a single lane and sandy track to an isolated beach. No Marmion Ave extension anywhere near it then.

There's a thread for the good bad an ugly theories, so I'm confused why this is still going on here.

View attachment 680700

I guess you are not a surfer or recreational boatsperson or fisherperson for that matter but a lot of residents out there are, that's why those chose to live out there, for the lifestyle.... By the mid 90s Marmion Ave had connected to Yanchep and Eglinton Road was one of the few roads that connected the North of Wanneroo area to the coast. Specifically Wanneroo Road to Marmion Avenue. Take a good look at street map of the area and you will see from Marmion Ave/ Pidinny Rd intersection you had two choices, turn south to reach Alkimos, Quinns Rock, Mindarie, Burns Beach.... all the way to Mullaloo Beach where Marmion Ave originally started or turn right to go out to Yanchep and Two Rocks. So yes being one of the few roads connecting inland to the coast out that way it was used quite a bit by local trafffic.

You seem to think 15kms is a long distance, it is not when compared to the distances the alleged allegedly travelled. It is the same distance from Perth City to Cottesloe Beach... Perth has always been spread out rather than built upwards, unlike our other capital cities (with the exception of Adelaide, that is still a large country town ) . Yes it was a two way single lane unpatrolled road, perfect for street racing.

Personally i don't know of any concrete connection to any form of motor racing and BRE but seen as the vast majority of the info being talked about here, and elsewhere, is speculation , even when it comes the forsenic evidence, what harm is there in further speculation when new info comes to light? It's one of them paths to the truth. It also kills time while we wait for "official" information.

 

[one eyed spy]

By the mid 90s Marmion Ave had connected to Yanchep

10yrs too early Bonza. Marmion Ave didnt extend past Benenden Ave in Butler until November 2008.

I agree with BlueE on the Pipidinny Rd issue not being used in the mid 90's for anything other than people accessing the beach or the dunes & I'm familiar with the area too for that reason, increasingly between 99-01.

I have no doubt that as infill pushed them out it was used eventually for racing etc, but as early as 96-97 I very much doubt it. I could be wrong but I dont think it was necessary for them to go so far out & nothing at all besides 1-2 members saying it was used (which I appreciate & respect its their memory of the time, but is in conflict with my own) theres no actual proof I can find otherwise that says it was used then for that reason. Theres plenty of video/blogs that reminisce about those years with the same streets/suburbs consistently being named all over the metro region yet Pipidinny hasn't rated a single mention until many years later. It wasn't till around 2003 that the last groups stopped congregating in the carparks at Scarborough beach to do burnouts of a weekend during the day, which blows my mind to think back to now as it seems so blatant but I think is indicative of the attitudes towards it still several years after the time in question. I imagine quite a few would definitely have dropped a burnout or two while travelling down Pipidinny, but as for groups congregating there & it being used for meets etc in mid to late 90's, I just dont believe it was.

 

[Kurve]

Well Scott Fenton and Tina Christie the basketballers were killed in Marmion Avenue in Hillarys in 1989 so there were definitely illegal street races at the time. Whether these extended up to the corner of Marmion Avenue and Pippidinny Road would be another question. Also whether there was any association with BRE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fenton

"Fenton and Christie were turning into Marmion Avenue in the Perth suburb of Hillarys when reportedly two cars racing down that street with no headlights on slammed into their car. Both Fenton and Christie died instantly."

https://www.communitynews.com.au/jo...-reflect-on-influence-of-scott-fentons-death/

"They were killed instantly when a V8 Holden Commodore, which police said had been travelling at up to 200km/h while drag racing, ploughed into the driver’s side of their Honda sedan near Flinders Avenue just after midnight. "

Illegal street drags in the northern suburbs of Perth across Waneroo was such a problem that it got a mention in Hansard when another two people were killed in 2002 regardless of efforts by police in 1999 to address the problem by hosting Blue Light Drags.

HON RAY HALLIGAN (North Metropolitan) [10.13 pm]: I bring to the attention of the House, and particularly the Government, an organisation in Joondalup called the Joondalup Blue Light Drags. That organisation is run by a committee, which includes a couple of police officers from the north west metropolitan police district. The organisation has been in operation for a couple of years and was set up to actively target illegal street racing in the northern suburbs of the Perth metropolitan area. The non-profit organisation operates under the Blue Light Association of WA (Inc). As I said, it is controlled by a committee made up of dedicated volunteers and is chaired by a serving police officer. It runs events at Wanneroo Raceway every second Thursday night between September and May. Participants race each other over an eighth of a mile and a burnout competition is also held each race night. It is said that the concept has been embraced by the community and is showing marked success in police-community relations and is tackling illegal drag racing. An article in the Wanneroo Times community newspaper on 12 to 18 March this year says - Organisers still have bills to pay from the past three meetings and will be forced to close the operations if they don’t get sponsorship or donations. Police and volunteers started running the events more than two years ago. Their vision: To provide a safe environment for people to race their cars instead of racing illegally in the back streets of Landsdale and Wangara. “Apart from the entertainment value, we are trying to promote road safety and give enthusiasts and young people a safe venue to race,” . . . “At the same time, we are helping to educate people on responsible driving and the need to follow simple safety rules.” . . . “It gives people involved in illegal street racing a chance to race in a safe environment and it is a great spectacle for the attending public,” . . . “Our committee are only too happy to be involved and to be given the opportunity to run the meeting and help educate our young people on road safety.”

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Han...7f36dd/$FILE/C36 S1 20020409 p9201b-9202a.pdf

 

[BonzaRam]

10yrs too early Bonza. Marmion Ave didnt extend past Benenden Ave in Butler until November 2008.

I agree with BlueE on the Pipidinny Rd issue not being used in the mid 90's for anything other than people accessing the beach or the dunes & I'm familiar with the area too for that reason, increasingly between 99-01.

I have no doubt that as infill pushed them out it was used eventually for racing etc, but as early as 96-97 I very much doubt it. I could be wrong but I dont think it was necessary for them to go so far out & nothing at all besides 1-2 members saying it was used (which I appreciate & respect its their memory of the time, but is in conflict with my own) theres no actual proof I can find otherwise that says it was used then for that reason. Theres plenty of video/blogs that reminisce about those years with the same streets/suburbs consistently being named all over the metro region yet Pipidinny hasn't rated a single mention until many years later. It wasn't till around 2003 that the last groups stopped congregating in the carparks at Scarborough beach to do burnouts of a weekend during the day, which blows my mind to think back to now as it seems so blatant but I think is indicative of the attitudes towards it still several years after the time in question. I imagine quite a few would definitely have dropped a burnout or two while travelling down Pipidinny, but as for groups congregating there & it being used for meets etc in mid to late 90's, I just dont believe it was.

It's not that it was regular spot used but rather a spot that was randomly used. It was probably a spot used only when other spots were not being used for whatever reasons. The dragsters used to have scanners and would often be able to know when to clear out before the police arrived at wherever they were, and as result they wouldn't return to that spot for some time and instead find another spot in the meantime.

 

[one eyed spy]

Illegal street drags in the northern suburbs of Perth across Waneroo was such a problem that it got a mention in Hansard when another two people were killed in 2002 regardless of efforts by police in 1999 to address the problem by hosting Blue Light Drags.
Their vision: To provide a safe environment for people to race their cars instead of racing illegally in the back streets of Landsdale and Wangara.

Exactly 2 of the areas I've come across consistently being mentioned as hotspots & some 30-40km away from Eglinton. It may not seem that big a distance for some, but to travel that far outside suburbia in Perth in the 90's, it was akin to a packed lunch & a daytrip & there was just no need to go that far out to a dark isolated road to race or do some burnouts. Just MO.

 

[tapdancingbear]

All this to and froing about street drag racing may be of interest to some but what does it have to do with anything ... if people are suggesting Wapol are looking for witnesses NOW in regards to the CSK events from street drags , Why , the case has started
My knowledge of Street drags is very limited , but for what its worth , I think you require a Street , and viewing areas , I'm sure burnouts require Tar / Bitumen .... not some bush track , but what would I know

 

[one eyed spy]

It's not that it was regular spot used but rather a spot that was randomly used. It was probably a spot used only when other spots were not being used for whatever reasons. The dragsters used to have scanners and would often be able to know when to clear out before the police arrived at wherever they were, and as result they wouldn't return to that spot for some time and instead find another spot in the meantime.

Agree that randomly used may be an appropriate description & more reason to doubt a bloke from Huntingdale would travel 70km+ to go to.

 

[Kurve]

.

Exactly 2 of the areas I've come across consistently being mentioned as hotspots & some 30-40km away from Eglinton. It may not seem that big a distance for some, but to travel that far outside suburbia in Perth in the 90's, it was akin to a packed lunch & a daytrip & there was just no need to go that far out to a dark isolated road to race or do some burnouts. Just MO.

Illegal street drags can be very serious for a certain type of crowd. I've known them to travel hundreds of kilometres to attend one out of the way meet, it's not all about who's the best driver but a car's performance and trade. 70kms is nothing.

Investigators still have a few weeks left and Carmel has said the investigation is ongoing so I wonder if he can't be placed at Eglinton for work or any other reason if the prosecution will use the line theory. Or offer nothing up at all.

 

[BFew]

I wonder if he can't be placed at Eglinton for work or any other reason if the prosecution will use the line theory. Or offer nothing up at all.

I’ll eat my Eagles cap and watch Wentworth, if the prosecution uses the line theory.