Current Claremont Murders - The Bunker

[BFew]

Every year I worked there we watched the Australia Day fireworks, and every year it was bloody Houghtons White Burgundy (renamed Houghton's White Classic) and the bloody pea based snacks.

But did you remember that the 1996 Australia Day Swan River Fireworks you remember watching from your work building,
were not actually held on Australia Day in 1996, until it became an issue in the CSK pre-trial?

 

[JezzaPerth]

But did you remember that the 1996 Australia Day Swan River Fireworks you remember watching from your work building,
were not actually held on Australia Day in 1996, until it became an issue in the CSK pre-trial?

Cripes! You are right.

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....works-show-to-be-held-Sunday,-January-28.aspx

The 1996 Australia Day weekend fireworks show will be a family-oriented event to be staged on Sunday, January 28.​

 

[JezzaPerth]

Of interest in the CSK trial is the comparable Rayney judge only trial.

I'm not totally sure but I think Justice Hall will announce at the very start the verdict and then go through the process explaining it. I think that happened with the Falconio murder but I can't find links.

In the linked abbreviated Rayney judgement it's arsey-versey. Lots of reasons followed at the very end by the judgement.

It will be very interesting if the verbal CSK verdict comes first and the explanation later.

https://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Judgment_Summary_Rayney.pdf

 

[zedx]

Of interest in the CSK trial is the comparable Rayney judge only trial.

I'm not totally sure but I think Justice Hall will announce at the very start the verdict and then go through the process explaining it. I think that happened with the Falconio murder but I can't find links.

In the linked abbreviated Rayney judgement it's arsey-versey. Lots of reasons followed at the very end by the judgement.

It will be very interesting if the verbal CSK verdict comes first and the explanation later.

https://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Judgment_Summary_Rayney.pdf

Geee... hope he spares us the suspense and gives the verdict first, then the reasoning!!

 

[the dark knight]

Geee... hope he spares us the suspense and gives the verdict first, then the reasoning!!

I hope so. Otherwise I’ll tear my hair out in suspense.

 

[JWS2019]

I hope so. Otherwise I’ll tear my hair out in suspense.

Here’s hoping he doesn’t start with the fibre evidence...

 

[Deva]

I think he will do the same as the Rayney verdict, set up the scene, drag it out and give his verdict last for the all important finale.
Leaving us all dying in suspense.
Other wise i could see all the media running out in a stampede to to be first with the "Breaking News", and i would hate to see AF pulling a hammy in the process.

 

[BomberManU]

I'm still intrigued by one of the eyewitness testimonies - can't remember the details, but I think it was someone saw CG walking along a street, after leaving the hotel, and appeared to be being followed by someone. The follower signaled someone else nearby, as she was crossing the street. Did anything more come of this?

 

[JWS2019]

I'm still intrigued by one of the eyewitness testimonies - can't remember the details, but I think it was someone saw CG walking along a street, after leaving the hotel, and appeared to be being followed by someone. The follower signaled someone else nearby, as she was crossing the street. Did anything more come of this?

No... can of worms ????!

 

[Likeamystery]

I'm still intrigued by one of the eyewitness testimonies - can't remember the details, but I think it was someone saw CG walking along a street, after leaving the hotel, and appeared to be being followed by someone. The follower signaled someone else nearby, as she was crossing the street. Did anything more come of this?

If that's the case someone on here will remember the details. One witness gave information which didn't seem quite right and the forum spent considerable time trying to fathom what they'd actually seen. The query was the side of the road CG had been seen. At the time, there was mention if females are aware of being followed they'll often cross the street. One side of Stirling Hwy has much seclusion as in the private school and the other side has housing, therefore, perhaps at one stage, CG had crossed the Stirling Hwy, and possibly gone back again.

Added note: The mention of a second person is interesting. On the morning of SSs abduction a witness mentioned seeing someone who'd stared at them. There's also the identikit which doesn't resemble BRE.

Added question: Could it be possible, that a VC (vile creature) would use a lure or an assistant? Someone who didn't participate in the act, but assisted in the abduction. Although it sounds ridiculous might that be the case.

Added more: The KK victim mentioned something about a possible second person. Thought he was talking to someone.

 

[BFew]

I'm still intrigued by one of the eyewitness testimonies - can't remember the details, but I think it was someone saw CG walking along a street, after leaving the hotel, and appeared to be being followed by someone. The follower signaled someone else nearby, as she was crossing the street. Did anything more come of this?

Here's what the LiveBlog's reported on witness Margaret Rogers (not present in Court and therefore not cross-examined).

The West Australian Newspaper's Live Blog - 16 Dec 2019

Claremont serial killings trial live blog - Day 16

Bradley Robert Edwards' Supreme Court trial moves into its final week before a scheduled Christmas break.

live.24liveblog.com

emily.moulton
Ms Barbagallo has now read in the statement of Margaret Rogers, who was at Fresh Provisions in Claremont the night Ciara disappeared.
She said after she left the grocery store she drove through the laneway leading out of Bay View Terrace. When she stopped her vehicle she saw a lone woman walk past her car down Bay View Terrace towards Stirling Highway.
She said this would have been about 12.08pm.
She said the area was fairly lit, and the female was aged in her 20s, was short, about 5ft1, slight build with shoulder length curly dark hair wearing a white short sleeved fitted top tucked into a dark skirt.
"She was ambling away and appeared to be relaxed," she said. "At the time I remember thinking 'the poor girl' for a small girl she has wide hips. However since viewing part of the re-enactment on the news I now believe this girl I saw may have been Ciara and the wide hips I saw may have been a jacket tied around her waist."

Ms Rogers said she then saw a young male about 25 years old, about 6ft to 6ft 1inches tall with short cropped hair at the back, wearing dark trousers, dressed in a white long sleeve business shirt.
She said he was walking two to three metres behind the girl and going in the same direction but on an angle. She said he was also walking closer to the road than the woman adding she had a "strong feeling" they were not together.
She said she remembered the male passed her car and that she remembered looking across and saw the girl walking towards Stirling Highway and noticed the male crossed the road.
"Just outside of Club Bayview there was a male standing off to the left of the road. He was waving his arms above his head quite frantically. I drove past him, looked in my rear view and saw the headlights of a vehicle pull into the kerb. I don't remember seeing where the male on the road went to. I then continued down to Stirling Road and to my home."

WAToday (Nine) Live Blog - 16 Dec 2019

Claremont killer trial LIVE: 'She might be the next girl to go': Witness recalls seeing Ciara on highway

The final civilian witnesses are about to be heard in the Claremont serial killings trial before DNA and fibre evidence will dominate next year's hearings.

www.watoday.com.au

'I think I saw Ciara walk in front of my car, followed by a man': Driver
The next witness statement of Margaret Rogers, 55, is being read aloud by Ms Barbagallo.
Ms Rogers said she was driving through Claremont around 12.08am the night Ciara disappeared and believes she saw her walking across Bay View Terrace towards Stirling Highway.
"As I moved slowly out of the lane on the footpath I stopped to see and let anyone walk past ... at that point I saw a female walk in front of my car.
"The female I saw was in her 20s, short, quite short, about 5 foot one inch, she had a slight build with below shoulder curly hair.
"She was wearing a white short sleeved close fitting top, it did not have a collar .
"She was ambling along and appeared to be relaxed.
"At the time I remember thinking the poor girl for a small build has wide hips ... however I now believe the wide hips I saw may have been her jacket tied around her waist."
Ms Rogers said she saw a man walking a few paces behind the woman, but did not believe they were together.
She described him as being around 25 years old, six foot, of lean build with dark-coloured hair, a white long-sleeved business shirt and dark trousers.
Ms Rogers said she carried on driving and turned onto St Quentin Avenue.
"I looked in the direction of this girl and noticed her still walking in the direction of Stirling Highway," she said.

 

[BFew]

I'm still intrigued by one of the eyewitness testimonies - can't remember the details, but I think it was someone saw CG walking along a street, after leaving the hotel, and appeared to be being followed by someone. The follower signaled someone else nearby, as she was crossing the street. Did anything more come of this?

Witness Margaret Rogers was not present in court at the trial.
Her witness statement was read aloud in court.
Does anyone recall if the reason why Margaret Rogers was not in court to be a witness and cross-examined, was publicly disclosed?

 

[JezzaPerth]

Witness Margaret Rogers was not present in court at the trial.
Her witness statement was read aloud in court.
Does anyone recall if the reason why Margaret Rogers was not in court to be a witness and cross-examined, was publicly disclosed?

She was probably dead or demented. I got the impression she was oldish when she saw Ciara. She was a nurse I think. She had been to fresh provisions and was driving out a now closed lane onto bayview

 

[Likeamystery]

Here's what the LiveBlog's reported on witness Margaret Rogers (not present in Court and therefore not cross-examined).

The West Australian Newspaper's Live Blog - 16 Dec 2019

Claremont serial killings trial live blog - Day 16

Bradley Robert Edwards' Supreme Court trial moves into its final week before a scheduled Christmas break.

live.24liveblog.com

WAToday (Nine) Live Blog - 16 Dec 2019

Claremont killer trial LIVE: 'She might be the next girl to go': Witness recalls seeing Ciara on highway

The final civilian witnesses are about to be heard in the Claremont serial killings trial before DNA and fibre evidence will dominate next year's hearings.

www.watoday.com.au

After reading the witness statements; just prior to CG being abducted, it would seem the witnesses saw each other, but one witness had seen a man waving (waving his arms above his head quite frantically). Obviously, CG was noticed because, she was young, attractive and walking alone whilst, two young women had recently been abducted.

One of the male witnesses noticed much detail about CG and another witness had shouted out to her, but whatever was said wasn’t mentioned. Ms Mullan then said as they passed her she "yelled at her". But this was not explored further by Ms Barbagallo.

Ms Rogers said she then saw a young male about 25 years old, about 6ft to 6ft 1inches tall with short cropped hair at the back, wearing dark trousers, dressed in a white long sleeve business shirt.

The male above is described as wearing similar attire to the MM in JRs video. Seemingly someone dressed, well enough, to have been at a hotel or nightclub.

That evening two people had shouted out to CG. Ms Mullen yelled out something and one of the Burger boys called out – thinking she was hitchhiking.

Originally my thoughts were the accused, worked alone, and had driven around prowling for someone to abduct. Yet, the last sightings of CG might suggest she was stalked much closer to the nightclub.

If CG had thought she was being stalked, surly she would have gone to Hungry Jacks, which was open. The Burger Boys noticed CG speaking to someone in a light coloured station wagon, looked up and she was gone. The Burger Boys were close by, but didn’t hear a struggle. Could it be possible CG had seen the accused earlier that evening, and decided to take a ride home with him.

I wonder if two people may have been involved in the actual stalking part, but the second person had driven his own vehicle to Claremont and then went on home.

 

[BFew]

I really hope we don't have to wait for a death bed confession from someone, or have to wait forever, to find out what actually happened to Ciara Glennon, on the night(s) of her abduction/murder.

Hopefully the guilty party(s) will come clean sooner rather than later.

 

[one eyed spy]

She was probably dead or demented. I got the impression she was oldish when she saw Ciara. She was a nurse I think. She had been to fresh provisions and was driving out a now closed lane onto bayview

I don't get that. What laneway was ever leading from Fresh Provisions out onto Bay View? It went to St Quentins AFAIK & she wouldnt have exited past Club Bayview anyway.

Secondly, lets say she was on Bay View somehow, the guy she saw waving his arms around standing outside Club Bay View, she's talking about the same white shirt, trouser guy, no?
If so, what has it got to do with CG whom she said walked down Bay View
Terrace to Stirling Highway anyway if they ended up on 2 different streets?

Or does the arm waver have nothing to do with the white shirt trouser guy?
In that case, her testimony is what exactly?
Just that she saw CG walk down Bay View Terrace and there was a guy in a white shirt walking the same direction a couple of metres behind her but on an angle & then she turned down St Quentin and there was a bloke waving his arms around outside a nightclub & from her rear view mirror, it appears a car pulled up to him?

WTF kind of BS is that!
And when was any store in 1997 open to midnight aside a pizza shop, a kebab shop or an Ezi Plus?

 

[JezzaPerth]

I don't get that. What laneway was ever leading from Fresh Provisions out onto Bay View? It went to St Quentins AFAIK & she wouldnt have exited past Club Bayview anyway.

Secondly, lets say she was on Bay View somehow, the guy she saw waving his arms around standing outside Club Bay View, she's talking about the same white shirt, trouser guy, no?
If so, what has it got to do with CG whom she said walked down Bay View
Terrace to Stirling Highway anyway if they ended up on 2 different streets?

Or does the arm waver have nothing to do with the white shirt trouser guy?
In that case, her testimony is what exactly?
Just that she saw CG walk down Bay View Terrace and there was a guy in a white shirt walking the same direction a couple of metres behind her but on an angle & then she turned down St Quentin and there was a bloke waving his arms around outside a nightclub & from her rear view mirror, it appears a car pulled up to him?

WTF kind of BS is that!
And when was any store in 1997 open to midnight aside a pizza shop, a kebab shop or an Ezi Plus?

It's the laneway beside liberty liquors. The've blocked it off at the Bayview Terrace end but back then it went through.

 

[GreyCrow]

I think he will do the same as the Rayney verdict, set up the scene, drag it out and give his verdict last for the all important finale.
Leaving us all dying in suspense.
Other wise i could see all the media running out in a stampede to to be first with the "Breaking News", and i would hate to see AF pulling a hammy in the process.

 

[one eyed spy]

I really hope we don't have to wait for a death bed confession from someone, or have to wait forever, to find out what actually happened to Ciara Glennon, on the night(s) of her abduction/murder.

Hopefully the guilty party(s) will come clean sooner rather than later.

I'd say its pretty clear what likely occured with CG & to a certain extent SS whom probably mistook a car pulling up for a cab. Far more anxious to know what happened to Jane though. Where did she go?

 

[one eyed spy]

It's the laneway beside liberty liquors. The've blocked it off at the Bayview Terrace end but back then it went through.

Ok, got it now, thanks. I forgot about that lane and could only recall the one further down which you couldn't drive through.
Forgot about Fresh Provisions too, and open 24 hrs. Thinking she meant Claremont Fresh on the west side of Hungry Jacks on Stirling Highway.
Don't mind me, got it sorted now!

Ok, query still stands about the purpose of her statement and whether she saw 2 guys or just the 1?

If it was 1 man, I dont get the purpose of her testimony as I stated before.
If it was 2, so there was a bloke behind her walking down the street whom she has no idea where he went because she went the other way & left the area. No one else said they saw him?
So, thats as helpful as it would be if it were only 1 man then!

What am I still missing here?

 

[BFew]

And when was any store in 1997 open to midnight aside a pizza shop, a kebab shop or an Ezi Plus?

That gourmet fresh provisions shop off Leura Avenue opposite Bunnings Claremont used to be open 24/7 for a period.
I know because I often shopped there.

 

[BFew]

In that case, her testimony is what exactly?

We've only got what the live blogs reported/misreported as being her witness statement that the courts read out.

Being 16 December, and Day 16 of the trial, the media might have been getting a little fatigued of all the live blogging the court case,
and already into the Christmas party season, might not have been at their best or resourced enough to report everything that was said.

Being a read out statement, the pace might have been quicker and the witness content, a lot briefer than if delivered by a live witness in court at the trial.

Can't recall there being much more info in any media articles that week about Margaret Rogers evidence than was in the Live Blogs and a google search did not throw up anything new.

Today, I even checked that week's Post Newspaper for any mention of the Margaret Rogers evidence. There was not even a mention of it.

Here's what the West Australian Newspaper had to say about Margaret Rogers evidence.
Nothing about the man waving his arms.

17 Dec 2019 page 5

 

[Likeamystery]

A couple of witnesses gave evidence that they’d seen CG just standing on the side of the road. Thinking she was probably waiting for a taxi to drive pass, with intentions of hailing it down.

Patricia Mullan’s evidence mentioned two young guys at the bus stop on Stirling Hwy, yet no one else mentioned seeing those two. I wonder where they went, thinking there probably wasn’t a bus at that time of night. Could it be possible the one with dark hair might have been the accused.

The next witness to be called is Patricia Mullan, who was a passenger in her friend Debbie's car - who was driving along Stirling Highway towards Perth the night Ciara went missing.

She told the court they had been out in Fremantle and were driving along Stirling Highway and went through Mosman Park around midnight.

She said as they passed Claremont they stopped at the traffic lights at Bay View Terrace and Stirling Highway between 12 to 12.30am, where they noticed two young guys at the bus stop on Stirling Highway, with one having dark hair.

 

[BFew]

She said as they passed Claremont they stopped at the traffic lights at Bay View Terrace and Stirling Highway between 12 to 12.30am, where they noticed two young guys at the bus stop on Stirling Highway, with one having dark hair.

The burger boys?

 

[JezzaPerth]

The burger boys?

There is another bus-stop on the south side of Stirling Highway slightly before Bay View Terrace. It's outside the Council buildings. It would be very obvious to drivers heading west.