Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Pessimistic

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We are all dumb punters in the end. A look at results shows any clubs development effort is at least as important as the talent they recruit.
Otherwise GWS and Gold Coast really would have raffled the last four flags as many people predicted.

We aren't equipped to discuss that as its very subjective and often hidden.
Moving names on and off whiteboards/lists of ages? Dead easy
 

TylerDurden

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I don’t really care what the past strategy was or if it didn’t work, I care more about the current strategy and if it is sound and can enable us to build into the future.

If we have all players fit (which is rare) we would win far more games but the concern will be we do a north Melbourne and hover aimlessly in the middle because we don’t have the elite talent in the middle.

The one question the board should be asking to clarko is, if you came in and this was your first year would you be doing all the same things as we are now? My feelings are we are still straddeling the old strategy and the new

(I think we are desperately in need of a senior right hand man in the box)
Nothing wrong with McRae in that role.
 

LMGjr

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Not to say he's not a great coach, he is, but the success was not all Clarko driven. It's like people think the guy waved a magic wand. Those players would transform ANY club. Also, why is it we get massacred by the umps each week, and get horrible timeslots and very minimal media coverage?
Some good melts - funny reading or are you actually serious?

How many flags since 2015 have ex assistants won by doing what he did?
 
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Judd2Sewell

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Of course this will cop some abuse and hate from posters. Just food for thought.

Leigh Matthews:
- 10 years at Collingwood
- 10 years at Brisbane

Malthouse:
- 10 years at WCE
- 11 years at Collingwood

Sheedy:
- 27 years at Essendon, about 5 of which were too long

David Parkin:
- 4 years at Hawthorn
- 5 years at Carlton
- 3 at Fitzroy
- 10 at Carlton

All coaches have a shelf life and all coaches fall out of touch with the game.

Is Clarko, in year 16, the exception to the rule? Maybe he can win another flag around year 20 similar to what Sheedy did, which is probably in line with where this rebuild is at if everything goes well. That would undoubtedly cement him as the GOAT for those who don't believe he is already.

Either way he's entering fairly unprecedented territory with history against him for the most part.
 

LMGjr

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We should start a pissing contest on who picked the exact date it all went horribly wrong, whose to blame, and who should be shot for it.

I lose, because for the 1st time in 3yrs I'm actually optimistic that what needs be done will be, now.
 

Hawk_francais

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I didn't start this thread to be pessimistic about our list, by the way.

I don't think we have the talent on our list yet to win the flag, but if we get 20-30 games into Reeves, DGB, Jiath, Brockman, Kosi, Jeka, Downie, Finn, Day, Hanrahan, Moore, Cousins, and Lewis - I think we'll be a much better side for both talent and depth (yes, believe it or not none of those players have played 30 AFL games). I'm really optimistic about what they can bring - not just in terms of results but also in reinstating some belief within the group, which I feel has been lost. If we don't show Wingard, Sicily, O'Meara, and Mitchell that our side has at least the blueprint for its next flag, they will surely walk eventually. If that blueprint includes a ruck division of McEvoy/Hartigan/O'Brien I will be very surprised.

Let's get Reeves in and see if he can't give us a hand. 22 years old, 100 kg, 300 cms - he's ready!
 

Endorphin Machine

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Of course this will cop some abuse and hate from posters. Just food for thought.

Leigh Matthews:
- 10 years at Collingwood
- 10 years at Brisbane

Malthouse:
- 10 years at WCE
- 11 years at Collingwood

Sheedy:
- 27 years at Essendon, about 5 of which were too long

David Parkin:
- 4 years at Hawthorn
- 5 years at Carlton
- 3 at Fitzroy
- 10 at Carlton

All coaches have a shelf life and all coaches fall out of touch with the game.

Is Clarko, in year 16, the exception to the rule? Maybe he can win another flag around year 20 similar to what Sheedy did, which is probably in line with where this rebuild is at if everything goes well. That would undoubtedly cement him as the GOAT for those who don't believe he is already.

Either way he's entering fairly unprecedented territory with history against him for the most part.
Youd have to convince me that he’s out of touch with the game , which i dont believe is the case. He’s as sharp as ever.
It’s purely talent based and we have got a few years of transition ahead of us, no matter who is coaching.
Best thing we can do is get elite young talent in and develop them well. I think we have a few pieces with Jiath , Day, Brockman , Scrimshaw .
I’d look at midfield as an area we need to address. A lot of them are too similar to each other in pace and build. Would love to have Jiath play through there eventually.
 

CHUBBSS

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Nothing wrong with McRae in that role.
My thoughts would be an ex senior coach, could Ross Lyon come back part time, guy McKenna, I’d love hodge back in any capacity.

I’m sure their are more names, who has the most experience with the modern game and midfields?
 

TylerDurden

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My thoughts would be an ex senior coach, could Ross Lyon come back part time, guy McKenna, I’d love hodge back in any capacity.

I’m sure their are more names, who has the most experience with the modern game and midfields?
I think McRae will coach seniors soon anyway. Highly regarded by most clubs now.
 

Steven Tyler

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You look at the others, on our list in age order over 27 years. Burgoyne, McEvoy, Brooksby, Bruest, Ceglar, Shiels, Scully, Gunston, Hartigan, Patton, Mitchell, Hartley, (Wingard), Frost, (JOM) TOB.

There are 16 blokes on that list there 27 and over. How many did Hawthorn draft and develop as players? 3 yep 3! Bruest, Shiels and TOB.
Probably because we were winning flags when these players were getting drafted!
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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I think McRae will coach seniors soon anyway. Highly regarded by most clubs now.
Our forwards talk up how much he has helped, but our leading patterns and forward effectiveness, even with some poor delivery, have been ordinary this year.
 

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The hands of stone

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Our forwards talk up how much he has helped, but our leading patterns and forward effectiveness, even with some poor delivery, have been ordinary this year.
We probably wont see benefit until mid-end of this season unfortunatley .

He probably is a great addition and is helping , you sometimes get a slow burn for any real onfield difference.
 

Pessimistic

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Of course this will cop some abuse and hate from posters. Just food for thought.

Leigh Matthews:
- 10 years at Collingwood
- 10 years at Brisbane

Malthouse:
- 10 years at WCE
- 11 years at Collingwood

Sheedy:
- 27 years at Essendon, about 5 of which were too long

David Parkin:
- 4 years at Hawthorn
- 5 years at Carlton
- 3 at Fitzroy
- 10 at Carlton

All coaches have a shelf life and all coaches fall out of touch with the game.

Is Clarko, in year 16, the exception to the rule? Maybe he can win another flag around year 20 similar to what Sheedy did, which is probably in line with where this rebuild is at if everything goes well. That would undoubtedly cement him as the GOAT for those who don't believe he is already.

Either way he's entering fairly unprecedented territory with history against him for the most part.
all those coaches had success in their second decade, some late in that decade? Each has four flags and Clarko has that already, are you saying hunger in a roundabout way?

or is a second club needed to re invigorate? There’s also successful coaches who dried up at second or third club
 

Zack

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Alistair Clarkson was perhaps the most brutal coach in afl history coming in. Anyone not in he's eyes bringing a premiership was gone. Or pissed off and soon retired. Crawford excepted.

Fast forward 15 years or so he's completely the opposite. He's kept 10 or more Crawford's, he's been in the belief a guy who struggles should play 400, and he's perpetuated a game plan that worked with the afl's best kickers in history with the afl's possibly worst kickers in history.

I realise he got us 4 premiership and I'm thankful 4 that but times change, Richmond win another one their equal... win two who is Clarkson?

We need him to be back 2 brutal. Brutal isn't necessarily nice and some players u may like, or even i like will b gone.

But without brutal he's just watching hardwick or now Beveridge winning premierships... and looking miles away from even being competitive with them.
 

Mercy Seat

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Reeves, DGB, Jiath, Brockman, Kosi, Jeka, Downie, Finn, Day, Hanrahan, Moore, Cousins, and Lewis
I like your optimism, but statistically, maybe half these guys will have any meaningful AFL career. Pumping 30 games into someone like Reeves who is still miles off AFL level has the potential to do more harm than good.

At this stage, we need to find out who has it and who doesn’t. That’s a mix of tutelage under Mitch in the 2s, and senior games. Hopefully they all can be solid contributors at our club, but apart from Day and maybe Jiath, and prob DGB based on his junior career alone, the jury is still well and truly out.

edit: I should say I want to get Day, DGB, Brockman back into the side ASAP, and give all those other players their opportunity sooner rather than later. But I’m not convinced they all have it, and blindly pumping 30 games into them regardless is not a way forward.
 
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wahawk

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Alistair Clarkson was perhaps the most brutal coach in afl history coming in. Anyone not in he's eyes bringing a premiership was gone. Or pissed off and soon retired. Crawford excepted.

Fast forward 15 years or so he's completely the opposite. He's kept 10 or more Crawford's, he's been in the belief a guy who struggles should play 400, and he's perpetuated a game plan that worked with the afl's best kickers in history with the afl's possibly worst kickers in history.

I realise he got us 4 premiership and I'm thankful 4 that but times change, Richmond win another one their equal... win two who is Clarkson?

We need him to be back 2 brutal. Brutal isn't necessarily nice and some players u may like, or even i like will b gone.

But without brutal he's just watching hardwick or now Beveridge winning premierships... and looking miles away from even being competitive with them.
It’s very easy to be brutal when you don’t know the person.
He came in without a personal attachment to anyone. Easy to get the broom out.
He now knows players on a personal level & clearly gets attached to some, it’s a lot harder to be brutal in these circumstances.

As for Burgoyne, he may be out of form, but he’d be providing some very wise guidance to the kids. We need that & im sure the youngsters love being guided by a veteran like him. He’d be honest without the brutality
 

Pessimistic

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I like your optimism, but statistically, maybe half these guys will have any meaningful AFL career. Pumping 30 games into someone like Reeves who is still miles off AFL level has the potential to do more harm than good.

At this stage, we need to find out who has it and who doesn’t. That’s a mix of tutelage under Mitch in the 2s, and senior games. Hopefully they all can be solid contributors at our club, but apart from Day and maybe Jiath, and prob DGB based on his junior career alone, the jury is still well and truly out.

edit: I should say I want to get Day, DGB, Brockman back into the side ASAP, and give all those other players their opportunity sooner rather than later. But I’m not convinced they all have it, and blindly pumping 30 games into them regardless is not a way forward.
45% make it, a target the hawks hve kept up with despite rarely having early picks
 

Hawk_francais

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I like your optimism, but statistically, maybe half these guys will have any meaningful AFL career. Pumping 30 games into someone like Reeves who is still miles off AFL level has the potential to do more harm than good.

At this stage, we need to find out who has it and who doesn’t. That’s a mix of tutelage under Mitch in the 2s, and senior games. Hopefully they all can be solid contributors at our club, but apart from Day and maybe Jiath, and prob DGB based on his junior career alone, the jury is still well and truly out.

edit: I should say I want to get Day, DGB, Brockman back into the side ASAP, and give all those other players their opportunity sooner rather than later. But I’m not convinced they all have it, and blindly pumping 30 games into them regardless is not a way forward.
Ned Reeves has put on our AFL list two years ago, he's 22 years old, and dominating games at the lower level. Why is he still miles off? I don't understand where this impression is coming from. We are desperate for someone to help take the load off our captain.
 

Mercy Seat

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Ned Reeves has put on our AFL list two years ago, he's 22 years old, and dominating games at the lower level. Why is he still miles off? I don't understand where this impression is coming from. We are desperate for someone to help take the load off our captain.
Nash is dominating games at lower level too. The step up has never been as big. I’m basing this on what those who watch a lot of VFL and training have said. I would love to be proven wrong.
 

Hawk_francais

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Nash is dominating games at lower level too. The step up has never been as big. I’m basing this on what those who watch a lot of VFL and training have said. I would love to be proven wrong.
I think ruckmen have the easiest time managing the step up. Their job is so focussed on one opponent, and the structure is simple. The concern about Ned as far as I understood was his lack of bulk, that's why Brooksby is on our list. But he seems to have filled out (and grown even taller). Our needs at senior level have never been greater - as Ceglar is really off at the moment. I reckon we'll see him soon if he keeps his form up.
 

SammyC

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But we only need to play one ruck though. We are in the minority of 2-3 that even consider playing 2 rucks & it’s not like it gives us an advantage when we do.

Mcevoy got beaten by gawn but he is the best and at least made gawn think more about him than if cegs played. I understand it’s too big a toll week in week out so give the skipper a week off here and there and play the young bloke or our very competent back up in cegs.

need mcevoy this week to bank a win though. We need to pick the game carefully to get a look at reeves, it will come soon but not when we urgently need a win for belief or against an A grade ruckman in the opposition.
 

Lickmesocks

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What round do we think Clarko will take the hand brake off the team and let them play with some attacking flair?

I hope it’s not when we are in dire straits and the season is completely cooked.

Our playing style is very poor to watch and connecting from HB to HF almost non existent as we try and play safe football with short chip style play around the boundary line.
 

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