Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Collins-Langford-Ayres

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We just don't have anywhere enough young talent. Surely we aren't even middle of the road?

Compare what we have now to what we drafted from 2001 to 2012 to set-up our 3-peat dynasty e.g.
2001 - Hodge, Mitchell
2002 - Sewell
2003 - ...
2004 - Rough, Buddy, Lewis
2005 - Ellis, Birchall, Bailey, Guerra
2006 - Suckling
2007 - Rioli
2008 - Schoey, Shiels, Breust
2009 - Stratton, Duryea
2010 - Issie, Puopolo, Langford
2011 - Hill
2012 - ...
 

MrPremiership

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We just don't have anywhere enough young talent. Surely we aren't even middle of the road?

Compare what we have now to what we drafted from 2001 to 2012 to set-up our 3-peat dynasty e.g.
2001 - Hodge, Mitchell
2002 - Sewell
2003 - ...
2004 - Rough, Buddy, Lewis
2005 - Ellis, Birchall, Bailey, Guerra
2006 - Suckling
2007 - Rioli
2008 - Schoey, Shiels, Breust
2009 - Stratton, Duryea
2010 - Issie, Puopolo, Langford
2011 - Hill
2012 - ...
Looks poor when you put it like that.

Although, traded in much more talent from 16-20 though compared to that period
 

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bigbuddyboy

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Looks poor when you put it like that.

Although, traded in much more talent from 16-20 though compared to that period
Trade in for 'that' period were
Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Lake, Gunston, Big Boi. I am sure I am missing a few.

I don't think we can say that our traded in talent from 16-20 was better...
 

theiaofseed

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We just don't have anywhere enough young talent. Surely we aren't even middle of the road?

Compare what we have now to what we drafted from 2001 to 2012 to set-up our 3-peat dynasty e.g.
2000 - Burgoyne
2001 - Hodge, Mitchell
2002 - Sewell
2003 - ...
2004 - Rough, Buddy, Lewis
2005 - Ellis, Birchall, Bailey, Guerra
2006 - Suckling
2007 - Rioli
2008 - Schoey, Shiels, Breust
2009 - Stratton, Duryea
2010 - Issie, Puopolo, Langford
2011 - Hill
2012 - ...
2011 - Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell
2012 - Frost
2013 - Sicily, Impey
2014 - Howe
2015 - Hardwick, Phillips
2016 - Scrimshaw, Morrison, Lewis
2017 - Worpel, Moore
2018 - Koschitzke
2019- Day
2020 - DBG, Brockman

Is there really that much of a difference? Ones one of the best teams ever the other is worthless? There's a far better base than youre giving it credit for.

Ten years of trading and drafting 2000-2009 compared to 2011-2020. The 11th year of this block is 2010 and 2021, should I remind you what we were in 2010? Did you see 2011-16 period coming?
 
Last edited:

bigbuddyboy

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2011 - Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell
2012 - Frost
2013 - Sicily
2014 - Howe
2015 - Hardwick, Phillips
2016 - Scrimshaw, Morrison, Lewis
2017 - Worpel, Moore
2018 - Koschitzke
2019- Day
2020 - DBG, Brockman

Is there really that much of a difference? Ones one of the best teams ever the other is worthless? There's a far better base than youre giving it credit for.
yes... yes there is.
 

PhatHQ

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Please explain why you want to axe Morris.

Please use one or two examples, not just generalisation.


I can still remember 2004 and that side was far worse than this current one.
From what limited vision I have seen he doesn’t have a tank and can’t provide flexibility. If he is playing for a small forward spot I see him as pushing sh*t up hill if I am being honest.
could be a longer term project but I just don’t see it
 

The Chad and I

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We just don't have anywhere enough young talent. Surely we aren't even middle of the road?

Compare what we have now to what we drafted from 2001 to 2012 to set-up our 3-peat dynasty e.g.
2001 - Hodge, Mitchell
2002 - Sewell
2003 - ...
2004 - Rough, Buddy, Lewis
2005 - Ellis, Birchall, Bailey, Guerra
2006 - Suckling
2007 - Rioli
2008 - Schoey, Shiels, Breust
2009 - Stratton, Duryea
2010 - Issie, Puopolo, Langford
2011 - Hill
2012 - ...
We have half a team right now.
We're hoping the other half develop into decent players but they are limited talents.
At most we should only have 3-4 of that type in our best 22.
 

HODGEYROAD

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2011 - Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell
2012 - Frost
2013 - Sicily, Impey
2014 - Howe
2015 - Hardwick, Phillips
2016 - Scrimshaw, Morrison, Lewis
2017 - Worpel, Moore
2018 - Koschitzke
2019- Day
2020 - DBG, Brockman

Is there really that much of a difference? Ones one of the best teams ever the other is worthless? There's a far better base than youre giving it credit for.

Ten years of trading and drafting 2000-2009 compared to 2011-2020. The 11th year of this block is 2010 and 2021, should I remind you what we were in 2010? Did you see 2011-16 period coming?
I thought we had a borderline top 4 list in 2010 and was very annoyed with our 1-6 start.

This season I thought we had a bottom 4 list and it's playing out that way so far.
 

bigbuddyboy

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So the difference is so large, one is the best ever the other is garage :thumbsu:
You asked if there is really that much of a difference in talent - clearly there is. You also included recent traded in players + drafted players compared to only drafted-in players for the threepeat teams. How much more stark the difference is then when you add Gibson, Hale, Lake, Big Boy, Gunston, Burgoyne plus probably more to the premiership teams.

But do you really need to someone to tell you that there is a large difference in quality between a team that went B2B2B vs a team that is on track for a B2B bottom 4 finish? I don't know what you are trying to argue here - there is a clear difference in talent as highlighted by results.
 

Pessimistic

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Recruiting and trading 2009-2013 was exceptional.

we had 17 threepeat players and only hodge mitchell Lewis Roughead Birchall Rioli were on the list in 2009
A pretty handy base but they weren’t enough in 2009 and the next three drafts were to be compromised so the club got creative going forward
the other 11 came from trades Gibson Gunston hale lake Burgoyne and draftees smith Puopolo bruest Shiels stratton hill

spectacularly well in 4-5 trading periods. Half from trades and half from drafts.

it’s no wonder the club backed themselves to continue, but perhaps Patton and Scully took the emphasis a bit too far that way

the team v Melbourne was clearly missing draftees sicily and day, trade ins Gunston, but the team was 10 trade ins and 12 draftees

in contrast to ‘play the kids’ if you also blend in experienced players - the best opportunity you can find, you replenish the list and still stay in the upper part of the ‘oldest’ teams where premiership- teams actually come from
 

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Pessimistic

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It is hard to see the controversy in suggesting that one of the most successful sides of all time is significantly better than a side staring down a second year in the bottom four and a sixth year without a finals win.
‘the implication is the club should be recreating a threepeat list And the current list be gutted to achieve that.

‘we can also look at the 2008 list which would be much more achievable, and require some efficient trading drafting and development, but not a hard rebuild which carries the real risk of being in the rebuild doldrums for maybe 15 years or more
 

TylerDurden

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‘the implication is the club should be recreating a threepeat list And the current list be gutted to achieve that.

‘we can also look at the 2008 list which would be much more achievable, and require some efficient trading drafting and development, but not a hard rebuild which carries the real risk of being in the rebuild doldrums for maybe 15 years or more
We still had elite talent in 2008 such as Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Birchall.

We just don't have these generational talents on our list. Would take years to compile.
 

moginie

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From what limited vision I have seen he doesn’t have a tank and can’t provide flexibility. If he is playing for a small forward spot I see him as pushing sh*t up hill if I am being honest.
could be a longer term project but I just don’t see it
"From what limited vision....."

Well, that's such a great reason.

Here is a player who has only played the small forward role when he was 15 playing in the Rosewater league team with adults. He's been a lead up forward playing CHF through his schools and his SANFL U19s career.

May I recommend that you watch a bit (read "a fair bit more") before you decide to end someone else's career.
 

Pessimistic

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We still had elite talent in 2008 such as Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Birchall.

We just don't have these generational talents on our list. Would take years to compile.
‘and buddy wasn’t really needed in the theeepeat.

I also remember 2012a lot of us in here could see a quick injury end to Hodges career. And Bigfooty also loved to downplay those players in 2010-11.

could the current list be better than bigfooty thinks currently? We’ll only know if we similarly add the other 11 players who took part in the threepeat
 

offtherails9

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Recruiting and trading 2009-2013 was exceptional.

we had 17 threepeat players and only hodge mitchell Lewis Roughead Birchall Rioli were on the list in 2009
A pretty handy base but they weren’t enough in 2009 and the next three drafts were to be compromised so the club got creative going forward
the other 11 came from trades Gibson Gunston hale lake Burgoyne and draftees smith Puopolo bruest Shiels stratton hill

spectacularly well in 4-5 trading periods. Half from trades and half from drafts.

it’s no wonder the club backed themselves to continue, but perhaps Patton and Scully took the emphasis a bit too far that way

the team v Melbourne was clearly missing draftees sicily and day, trade ins Gunston, but the team was 10 trade ins and 12 draftees

in contrast to ‘play the kids’ if you also blend in experienced players - the best opportunity you can find, you replenish the list and still stay in the upper part of the ‘oldest’ teams where premiership- teams actually come from
I think they were good gambles by Wright and Clarko. We paid nothing for them really in draft currency, and got back the return you would expect from that. Scully to be fair had one decent season which is okay but they were just gambles that didn't work out. Didn't pay off in this scenario, just like Dale Garlett. I'm more annoyed at trading a first for O'Rourke and the Lovell miss.
 

offtherails9

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Should we maybe be looking at lists of teams contending now like say the Bulldogs, or even Port and how they were built rather than comparing our list to the best/second best team/dynasty of the AFL era?
 

Brishawk

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We just don't have anywhere enough young talent. Surely we aren't even middle of the road?

Compare what we have now to what we drafted from 2001 to 2012 to set-up our 3-peat dynasty e.g.
2001 - Hodge, Mitchell
2002 - Sewell
2003 - ...
2004 - Rough, Buddy, Lewis
2005 - Ellis, Birchall, Bailey, Guerra
2006 - Suckling
2007 - Rioli
2008 - Schoey, Shiels, Breust
2009 - Stratton, Duryea
2010 - Issie, Puopolo, Langford
2011 - Hill
2012 - ...
No one has ever assembled so much talent without some sort of draft advantage like priority picks etc. both pies and hawks won flags after receiving priority picks. Dogs and tigers won flags but I don’t think any of the priority picks made it into their premiership teams so not clear it was a factor. The draft is also way more compromised. It is going to be hard to go close to emulating that kind of list.
 

theiaofseed

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You asked if there is really that much of a difference in talent - clearly there is. You also included recent traded in players + drafted players compared to only drafted-in players for the threepeat teams. How much more stark the difference is then when you add Gibson, Hale, Lake, Big Boy, Gunston, Burgoyne plus probably more to the premiership teams.

But do you really need to someone to tell you that there is a large difference in quality between a team that went B2B2B vs a team that is on track for a B2B bottom 4 finish? I don't know what you are trying to argue here - there is a clear difference in talent as highlighted by results.
I compared 2000-2009 draft/trade period to the 2011-2020 draft/trade period. None of Gibson, Hale, Lake, Big Boy, Gunston, Burgoyne were at the club so why would I have them included??
 

Mercy Seat

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Recruiting and trading 2009-2013 was exceptional.

we had 17 threepeat players and only hodge mitchell Lewis Roughead Birchall Rioli were on the list in 2009
A pretty handy base but they weren’t enough in 2009 and the next three drafts were to be compromised so the club got creative going forward
the other 11 came from trades Gibson Gunston hale lake Burgoyne and draftees smith Puopolo bruest Shiels stratton hill

spectacularly well in 4-5 trading periods. Half from trades and half from drafts.

it’s no wonder the club backed themselves to continue, but perhaps Patton and Scully took the emphasis a bit too far that way

the team v Melbourne was clearly missing draftees sicily and day, trade ins Gunston, but the team was 10 trade ins and 12 draftees

in contrast to ‘play the kids’ if you also blend in experienced players - the best opportunity you can find, you replenish the list and still stay in the upper part of the ‘oldest’ teams where premiership- teams actually come from
Good post. People often like to say that we benefited from the compromised drafts for GC/GWS in that whoever was good in 08/09 was bound to continue to be good come 2013-15 due to diluted competition. They forget that we almost completely rebuilt our list in this short period through ripper trading and drafts. No big star recruits either nor high draft picks.
 

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