Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Billyc

Premiership Player
Oct 17, 2009
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Are people actually suggesting a top 4 home and away finish means you’re a top 4 side if you then go out in straight sets? So finals don’t count? Better hand those premierships back.

The simple point is this: by seasons end we will not have won a final in 6 years. Only Carlton, Essendon and Gold Coast will have gone more years
 

SA HAWK

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2006
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Are people actually suggesting a top 4 home and away finish means you’re a top 4 side if you then go out in straight sets? So finals don’t count? Better hand those premierships back.

The simple point is this: by seasons end we will not have won a final in 6 years. Only Carlton, Essendon and Gold Coast will have gone more years
A few more teams than that i think (Freo, Sydney & North come to mind).

Totally agree with the first part though.
 

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Spursfan

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Mar 30, 2008
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Richmond won 2 or 3 finals between 1983 and 2013. This 'they haven't won a final for x years' is meaningless to me. When we get play finals again (yes it could be a few years yet) it'll obviously be a new group of players without any attachments to the past.
 

Billyc

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Just checked and yes you are right.

Apologies.
We are not in great company are we? There is obvious leeway after success but you can only rest on past glories for so long. We botched the list management post 2015 with an attempt to rebuild on the run and we are now having a crack at a proper rebuild. I do think past glories buy that indulgence but won’t excuse it if we get this second attempt wrong and still stink in 2-3 years time. A decade is too long to be mediocre with the equalisation measures (especially for a strong club).
 

darthmann

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Jun 11, 2013
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I don't think it's fair to lump 2016 in with our current failures, that was largely the same side as our threepeat team and we were absolutely right in going for 4 in a row. Who knows what happens if Isaac kicks straight.

2017 was the clear shift in strategy, and it ultimately failed but I didn't mind it at the time. We didn't completely bottom out until now, and I think 2020-21 will represent the third shift in list management where we look to the draft to move back into relevance. I would expect us to be close to a top 8 team in 2023 and contending by 2024-5, and if by then were still crap then this third strategy can also probably be deemed a failure
 

xmarksthespot

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Aug 15, 2009
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Look up the word hubris in the dictionary you will find a photo of Clarko. He totally believes everything written about him being a genius and that he could coach any bunch of players to a flag.
His motto has been “lose a soldier, replace him with another soldier”. This is BS.
Lose Gale, get Vickery - Fail
Lose Budddy, give Timmy the 23 - Fail
Lose Hill, get Scully - Fail
Lose Rough, get Patton - Fail
Lose Cyril, get Wingard - Fail
Lose Frawley, get Hartigan -Fail
Get rid of all time greats Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge for a bag of chips and replace them with TOM and JOM in return for our draft future and become a bottom four side four years later - Fail
Recruit players with a history of injury and rehabilitate them because we have the best doctors and it worked once with Burgoyne- Fail

Clarkson is totally unaccountable. He tells the world we’re a young side which is again total B S. Players like Lewis, Moore, Hanrahan, Cousins, Morrison, Worpel, Howe, O’Brien have all been on the list for at least four years. CJ and Kosi have been on the list for three years and the rest of this year’s regulars five plus years. Day is the one exception. These guys may be inexperienced at AFL level but that’s because they’re not good enough to get regular AFL games. Buddy Franklin kicked 100 goals in his fourth season. I know it’s not fair to compare to Buddy but the fact is if they’re good enough, they’ll play, just look at Will Day. These are the sort of players you need to win flags. This whole Box Hill apprenticeship stuff is BS. Michael Tuck and Dipper playing 50 games in the reserves was over 40 years ago, it’s not relevant.
Clarko likes to compare 2021 to 2005 and 2010. More BS. Clarko inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Osborne, BAteman, Sewell, Campbell, Dixon and J Smith when he took over the club. He then got a priority pick that got us Buddy. In 2010 the core of the 2008 side was still there including Buddy, Rough, Cyril, Lewis and Birchall. The only truly young players we currently have that would have the ability of those players is Day and maybe CJ.
Hawthorn is not just a middle of the road side, they have become totally irrelevant in the AFL landscape. Terrible performances like Saturday’s are just ignored and accepted and Clarko continues to remain totally unaccountable for the mess he has largely created.



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Well I guess that settles it. Which other team are you going to follow now that you've given up on Hawthorn ever turning it around?
 

CHUBBSS

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Apr 6, 2010
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Look up the word hubris in the dictionary you will find a photo of Clarko. He totally believes everything written about him being a genius and that he could coach any bunch of players to a flag.
His motto has been “lose a soldier, replace him with another soldier”. This is BS.
Lose Gale, get Vickery - Fail
Lose Budddy, give Timmy the 23 - Fail
Lose Hill, get Scully - Fail
Lose Rough, get Patton - Fail
Lose Cyril, get Wingard - Fail
Lose Frawley, get Hartigan -Fail
Get rid of all time greats Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge for a bag of chips and replace them with TOM and JOM in return for our draft future and become a bottom four side four years later - Fail
Recruit players with a history of injury and rehabilitate them because we have the best doctors and it worked once with Burgoyne- Fail

Clarkson is totally unaccountable. He tells the world we’re a young side which is again total B S. Players like Lewis, Moore, Hanrahan, Cousins, Morrison, Worpel, Howe, O’Brien have all been on the list for at least four years. CJ and Kosi have been on the list for three years and the rest of this year’s regulars five plus years. Day is the one exception. These guys may be inexperienced at AFL level but that’s because they’re not good enough to get regular AFL games. Buddy Franklin kicked 100 goals in his fourth season. I know it’s not fair to compare to Buddy but the fact is if they’re good enough, they’ll play, just look at Will Day. These are the sort of players you need to win flags. This whole Box Hill apprenticeship stuff is BS. Michael Tuck and Dipper playing 50 games in the reserves was over 40 years ago, it’s not relevant.
Clarko likes to compare 2021 to 2005 and 2010. More BS. Clarko inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Osborne, BAteman, Sewell, Campbell, Dixon and J Smith when he took over the club. He then got a priority pick that got us Buddy. In 2010 the core of the 2008 side was still there including Buddy, Rough, Cyril, Lewis and Birchall. The only truly young players we currently have that would have the ability of those players is Day and maybe CJ.
Hawthorn is not just a middle of the road side, they have become totally irrelevant in the AFL landscape. Terrible performances like Saturday’s are just ignored and accepted and Clarko continues to remain totally unaccountable for the mess he has largely created.



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This a full Monday launch

 

bris tarangau

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Look up the word hubris in the dictionary you will find a photo of Clarko. He totally believes everything written about him being a genius and that he could coach any bunch of players to a flag.
His motto has been “lose a soldier, replace him with another soldier”. This is BS.
Lose Gale, get Vickery - Fail
Lose Budddy, give Timmy the 23 - Fail
Lose Hill, get Scully - Fail
Lose Rough, get Patton - Fail
Lose Cyril, get Wingard - Fail
Lose Frawley, get Hartigan -Fail
Get rid of all time greats Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge for a bag of chips and replace them with TOM and JOM in return for our draft future and become a bottom four side four years later - Fail
Recruit players with a history of injury and rehabilitate them because we have the best doctors and it worked once with Burgoyne- Fail

Clarkson is totally unaccountable. He tells the world we’re a young side which is again total B S. Players like Lewis, Moore, Hanrahan, Cousins, Morrison, Worpel, Howe, O’Brien have all been on the list for at least four years. CJ and Kosi have been on the list for three years and the rest of this year’s regulars five plus years. Day is the one exception. These guys may be inexperienced at AFL level but that’s because they’re not good enough to get regular AFL games. Buddy Franklin kicked 100 goals in his fourth season. I know it’s not fair to compare to Buddy but the fact is if they’re good enough, they’ll play, just look at Will Day. These are the sort of players you need to win flags. This whole Box Hill apprenticeship stuff is BS. Michael Tuck and Dipper playing 50 games in the reserves was over 40 years ago, it’s not relevant.
Clarko likes to compare 2021 to 2005 and 2010. More BS. Clarko inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Osborne, BAteman, Sewell, Campbell, Dixon and J Smith when he took over the club. He then got a priority pick that got us Buddy. In 2010 the core of the 2008 side was still there including Buddy, Rough, Cyril, Lewis and Birchall. The only truly young players we currently have that would have the ability of those players is Day and maybe CJ.
Hawthorn is not just a middle of the road side, they have become totally irrelevant in the AFL landscape. Terrible performances like Saturday’s are just ignored and accepted and Clarko continues to remain totally unaccountable for the mess he has largely created.



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Wow!! That is some rant :D
 

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burner1

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There’s a lot of middle of the road teams this year. A few wins in tight games or tweaks in selection (playing 2-3 extra kids etc) could be the difference between finishing bottom 2-4 vs 9-12th.
 

Bruno Oresar

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Wow!! That is some rant :D
Sorry tarangau. Don’t agree. It is a well considered assessment of a recruiting and list management fiasco. You don’t have to agree, that’s fine, but calling it a rant implies the author is a crazy person. No need for such disrespect.

ps. Just got some inside mail that the HFC board is getting very weary of Clarko.
 

Billyc

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Oct 17, 2009
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Sorry tarangau. Don’t agree. It is a well considered assessment of a recruiting and list management fiasco. You don’t have to agree, that’s fine, but calling it a rant implies the author is a crazy person. No need for such disrespect.

ps. Just got some inside mail that the HFC board is getting very weary of Clarko.
If only they would get weary of the President instead
 

Birdofprey

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Jun 14, 2017
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Sorry tarangau. Don’t agree. It is a well considered assessment of a recruiting and list management fiasco. You don’t have to agree, that’s fine, but calling it a rant implies the author is a crazy person. No need for such disrespect.

ps. Just got some inside mail that the HFC board is getting very weary of Clarko.
Just curiously, "weary" of what in particular?
 

Mrzohs

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Oct 9, 2014
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I will start this by saying i didn't expect to win on the weekend with the outs but i arrived thinking we are close to a middle road team, I left thinking we are firm bottom four outfit. I am on the fence when it comes to if Clarko is the man to see out a rebuild, I do believe there is to many yes men in the box. It's always the same old style, players and moves in matches nothing really attacking or catching you off guard.

- He must hold some type of accountability for the second time in a row we have picked a skipper that is not a automatic 22. I thought the Mcevoy selection was good at the time, i didn't know his body issues he physically looks shot this season.
-The Band-aid Recruitments while these blokes might squeeze into our 22 it's a bandaid fix that leaves nasty holes underneath.

What hurt on the weekend was the lack of endeavour chase,pressure,run,physicality any player or team should be able to apply this if it's not happening the coach message is not getting across. We have had some shocking quarters in game's of examples like this, on the weekend it was first three quarters put in another performance like that again and we must look at some serious changes. Lets see how we respond or if the trend continues.
Listening in to a few things i am hearing some of the younger players have a bit of disconnect with the same old message coming across not sure what to make of this but a performance like that does explain a few things.
 
Last edited:

Bruno Oresar

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Nov 9, 2015
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Just curiously, "weary" of what in particular?
Weary of his level of control and a perceived obstinance on his part as to the direction he is taking this playing group. Mail that I got was that the board do not see Clarko as the long term coach.
This is almost a direct quote - don’t shoot the messenger.
 

cryptor

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May 11, 2008
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People who have seats on boards tend to have very strong opinions. I'd be surprised if every board member shared the same opinion on something as important and divisive as who should be senior coach of a team that is losing far more often than they're winning.

I'd expect currently that the majority favour Clarko, but I imagine it won't take too many more performances like Saturday night to start swinging it.
 

PhatHQ

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Sep 26, 2015
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Just out of curiosity... I wonder if the same posters that didn’t want to trade a Breust or Gunston the same guys with utmost optimism and “we won 3 in a row and didn’t get good draft picks”?

The horses has bolted on that one anyway but amusing none the less.

Being middle of the road for a number of years is absolutely on Clarko and his softness he has shown to the playing group.
He will still play favourites, he will roll out the young and developing dialog but the fact is he wasn’t ruthless enough to push Smith when he had more value, he didn’t toss a coin and trade Breust or Gunston and he has let too much coaching walk out the door with sub par replacements.

Sometimes the stars align and you get a 3 peat the rest of the time it’s a battle attraction and who has the balls to swing for the fences again.
 

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