Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Liverbird

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We got out bid on some good FAs by crazy offers in terms of years and coin even some ordinary ones and the price of trades has gone cray cray

Very hard to rebuild when that happens
HD - its even harder to rebuild when your senior coach presents to board at end of 2016 saying you can win it with top up and FA approach and gives away all your decent draft picks, as evident by our current predicament impossible actually.

Geelong have been trying since end of 2011 also and bar Kardinia Park assuring finals positioning have been found as pretenders ultimately.

On the other hand we picked supposed a-graders that have turned out playing to B grade standards.

Mitchell due to leg break.
O'Meara due to pre-existing injury
Wingard due to being a finishing piece in top 4 team.

We have butchered our trades, limited our drafting capabity and are irrelevant in FA, it no surprise we are dross.

We have 3 straight F's in all 3 list management categories, some in fairness due to bad luck with Mitchell, but the overwhelming majority due to the clubs bungling and cock ups with approach.

A Clarkson casts a shadow over Wingard trade that in hindsight was an awful decision.
 

bris tarangau

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Weary of his level of control and a perceived obstinance on his part as to the direction he is taking this playing group. Mail that I got was that the board do not see Clarko as the long term coach.
This is almost a direct quote - don’t shoot the messenger.
We'll just have to wait and see then.
 

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Hawk_francais

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We didn't nose dive in 2019 - had some real bad luck early in the season in the crazy game where the umps went crazy and handed the Dogs a game that cost us a spot in the finals. Remember the frees against Sic for no reason and then the one where Worpel was penalised for walking through the centre circle and they had to admit that is not a rule. Also had bad luck with injuries all year, especially Impey.

This year Lewis and Scrimshaw were injured and underdone so missed round 1 and then we rewarded a winning team with no change for round 2.
We nosedived in 2019

lost 10 of our first 15 matches

referencing umpire decisions is about the most pathetic excuse I’ve ever heard
 

Realist

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Clarko has quite simply lost his nerve. The past few years he has gone into damage control to save his reputation and pick teams to be "competitive" and try not to lose by too much rather than develop a team for the future. When he first joined the club he had "balls". He was all about developing the young players and building a team to win rather than to not lose.
I'm old enough to remember Carlton v Hawthorn at Marvel back in 2007. It was a game that exemplified what an exciting and potentially great coach we had. The game was a sell out on a Friday night and a record crowd at the stadium between two teams that thought they were on the improve. Buddy was a last minute withdrawal and Carlton had a red hot Fev down the other end. Trent Croad was our best defender and all set to line up on Fev, but Clarko recognised that the team needed a replacement for Buddy so he played Croad up forward and put Gilham, who wasn't as physically equipped as Croad, on Fev.
Hawthorn ended up winning by 100 points and Croad kicked 3 goals 4 behinds, with Roughy kicking a lazy 5.
If that scenario happened today, would Clarko pull Croad out of the backline to play forward? No friggin' way.
Bring back 2007 Clarko, that's the coach the club needs now!
 

darthmann

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Clarko has quite simply lost his nerve. The past few years he has gone into damage control to save his reputation and pick teams to be "competitive" and try not to lose by too much rather than develop a team for the future. When he first joined the club he had "balls". He was all about developing the young players and building a team to win rather than to not lose.
I'm old enough to remember Carlton v Hawthorn at Marvel back in 2007. It was a game that exemplified what an exciting and potentially great coach we had. The game was a sell out on a Friday night and a record crowd at the stadium between two teams that thought they were on the improve. Buddy was a last minute withdrawal and Carlton had a red hot Fev down the other end. Trent Croad was our best defender and all set to line up on Fev, but Clarko recognised that the team needed a replacement for Buddy so he played Croad up forward and put Gilham, who wasn't as physically equipped as Croad, on Fev.
Hawthorn ended up winning by 100 points and Croad kicked 3 goals 4 behinds, with Roughy kicking a lazy 5.
If that scenario happened today, would Clarko pull Croad out of the backline to play forward? No friggin' way.
Bring back 2007 Clarko, that's the coach the club needs now!
u mean like how he didn't put TOB into the backline
 

LMGjr

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Just out of curiosity... I wonder if the same posters that didn’t want to trade a Breust or Gunston the same guys with utmost optimism and “we won 3 in a row and didn’t get good draft picks”?

The horses has bolted on that one anyway but amusing none the less.

Being middle of the road for a number of years is absolutely on Clarko and his softness he has shown to the playing group.
He will still play favourites, he will roll out the young and developing dialog but the fact is he wasn’t ruthless enough to push Smith when he had more value, he didn’t toss a coin and trade Breust or Gunston and he has let too much coaching walk out the door with sub par replacements.

Sometimes the stars align and you get a 3 peat the rest of the time it’s a battle attraction and who has the balls to swing for the fences again.
Do lots of the mournful posters just have this saved for copy and paste each week, year in, year out?
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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I wish the Board would agree we can spend the next two years at the bottom of the ladder and top up on young talent to build the bench strength to then make a move up the ladder. We don't have enough raw young talent and a half picks half trade/FA approach will get us up to the middle of the table, but won't win us any flags. Acceptable for teams like the Saints, but not Hawthorn.
 

LMGjr

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I wish the Board would agree we can spend the next two years at the bottom of the ladder and top up on young talent to build the bench strength to then make a move up the ladder. We don't have enough raw young talent and a half picks half trade/FA approach will get us up to the middle of the table, but won't win us any flags. Acceptable for teams like the Saints, but not Hawthorn.
Do you actually mean that the board is also responsible, not just one man?

Wow that's better then the crap about "we shoulda traded bla bla bla 5yrs" ago over and over and over again.

It's also forward thinking instead of backward whinging i like it.
 

HODGEYROAD

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When finished 4 in 2018.... this will be the third year we haven't finished top 4, so yes lets just sack the coach :drunk:
This year will be 6 years since a finals win, 4 of our last 5 seasons msssing the 8 all together, 2nd straight season in the bottom 4. The Kicker of that is we've barely scratched the surface of the rebuild despite that really average 5 year period. We're still minimum 2-3 years away off playing finals and that's assuming we make better choices than we have in recent times.
 

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Billyc

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This year will be 6 years since a finals win, 4 of our last 5 seasons msssing the 8 all together, 2nd straight season in the bottom 4. The Kicker of that is we've barely scratched the surface of the rebuild despite that really average 5 year period. We're still minimum 2-3 years away off playing finals and that's assuming we make better choices than we have in recent times.
I wouldn’t say 2-3 years minimum to play finals as these things can turn quickly if you nail a couple drafts, a few players come on better than expected (more CJ types) etc.

That said, on probabilities, I wouldn’t be betting on us playing finals in the next couple years as I think most clubs have much better lists right now and I just don’t see the midfield improving enough without something surprising happening there.
 

HODGEYROAD

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I wouldn’t say 2-3 years minimum to play finals as these things can turn quickly if you nail a couple drafts, a few players come on better than expected (more CJ types) etc.

That said, on probabilities, I wouldn’t be betting on us playing finals in the next couple years as I think most clubs have much better lists right now and I just don’t see the midfield improving enough without something surprising happening there.
I'll be stunned if we play finals before 2023, 2024 is a more realistic goal IMO, sides like St. Kilda won't play finals this season and we saw the gulf in class Saturday. It's a long road ahead of us and we have to make a lot of good choices and add a lot more talent in the next 2-3 years.
 
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Jazzfan

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I hate that I think this, even as hard as I try and push it away, but fck, Essendon are showing us in every way what a rebuilding team should look like. You can take losing watching your team playing with the boldness and attacking nature of youth. It feels like the bombers kids are out there enjoying themselves without the worry of making mistakes, without being overcoached in every facet of the game. As we are.
 

TylerDurden

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I hate that I think this, even as hard as I try and push it away, but fck, Essendon are showing us in every way what a rebuilding team should look like. You can take losing watching your team playing with the boldness and attacking nature of youth. It feels like the bombers kids are out there enjoying themselves without the worry of making mistakes, without being overcoached in every facet of the game. As we are.
Look at what they did to an average side in St Kilda. Scary.
 

JoondalupJ

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Famous words uttered by Alastair Clarkson after our 2019 loss to Melbourne.

“Right now we’re looking at our group and saying we’re a middle of the road side,” Clarkson said post-game.

“So we can continue going down that track and end up a middle of the road side for next four or five years, but that’s not the way we go about it so we’ve got to search for it. Some will be methodology and some will be personnel.

“We can’t turn everything around quickly and we can’t throw everything out and try something radically new either, we’ve just got to pick the moments.

“It sounds like it’s going to be catastrophic change, it’s not going to be any of that, but we’re not a side that sits around and wallows in the middle part of the ladder for too long.

“Right at the minute the ladder accurately reflects where Hawthorn sits.”

The team line-up in that game:

Hardwick, Brand, Impey
Scully, Stratton, Gunston
Smith, O’Meara, Howe
Puopolo, O’Brien, Sicily
Breust, Roughead, Wingard
McEvoy, Worpel, Shiels
Moore, Burgoyne, Henderson, M.Lewis

Out: Scully, Stratton, Smith, Puopolo, Roughead, Henderson (retired) Brand (trade)
Sicily, Gunston, Burgoyne (fitness)

In: Scrimshaw, CJ, Hartigan, Hartley, Morrison, Brockman, Frost, Ceglar, Mitchell, Phillips

Nick Dal Santo said of us last year: “You can’t keep picking the same faces when you’re losing”, and yet this shows that we keep coming back to the same players in the same positions who are not getting the job done, only making changes when players retire or leave. Why?

It’s time to see a different midfield mix, it’s time to see Kosi, Jeka being given time up forward. It’s time to see Maginness, Cousins, Scrimshaw, Moore, Morrison, Phillips somebody else on-ball. Time to see Downie on the wing.

We are on track to wallow around the middle part of the ladder exactly as Clarko stated he didn’t want to. It’s time to hand over the keys to the youngsters and let’s see if they really crash the SUV.
Well of course when re building you hand over to younger players, but thats what I saw anyway on Saturday, and we got massacred, the week before we got hold of the Crows and made another "come back" But to say after 6 or 7 rounds there is no changes is just wrong.
There are changes and watching last week on Saturday as the Saints ate us alive, except for one quarter, I didn't know many heads , build takes time, getting all to fall into a plan and way of playing takes time and one other ingredient , top quality human beings, not the greatest sportspeople in the world but people of character, who learn and commit, we had that pretty regularly after 2008 , and we fulfilled it totally for 4 years losing in 2012 and winning three in a row after.
Be patient don't knock, especially the way this Coach works, those Premiership teams from 2005 to 2015 ( and nearly 2016 except for one kick (where we would have got hold of Sydney the next week) we will never see that again, nor will any other club , maybe Richmond , but I don't reckon the opposition is like what we faced only 5 or 6 years ago.
As for the midfield mix we "managed two normal entrants , and Burgs was out, No Ceglar of course, he gets his unfair share of rubbishing, so the changes are there, and will slowly spread, we are more than a bottom 4 team too. But we are learning and we have new faces everywhere , so many in fact that Bert Newton would change clubs!!!!!
 

offtherails9

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Clarko has quite simply lost his nerve. The past few years he has gone into damage control to save his reputation and pick teams to be "competitive" and try not to lose by too much rather than develop a team for the future. When he first joined the club he had "balls". He was all about developing the young players and building a team to win rather than to not lose.
I'm old enough to remember Carlton v Hawthorn at Marvel back in 2007. It was a game that exemplified what an exciting and potentially great coach we had. The game was a sell out on a Friday night and a record crowd at the stadium between two teams that thought they were on the improve. Buddy was a last minute withdrawal and Carlton had a red hot Fev down the other end. Trent Croad was our best defender and all set to line up on Fev, but Clarko recognised that the team needed a replacement for Buddy so he played Croad up forward and put Gilham, who wasn't as physically equipped as Croad, on Fev.
Hawthorn ended up winning by 100 points and Croad kicked 3 goals 4 behinds, with Roughy kicking a lazy 5.
If that scenario happened today, would Clarko pull Croad out of the backline to play forward? No friggin' way.
Bring back 2007 Clarko, that's the coach the club needs now!
We were second on the ladder at the time, bit of a difference.
 

Hawk_francais

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Look up the word hubris in the dictionary you will find a photo of Clarko. He totally believes everything written about him being a genius and that he could coach any bunch of players to a flag.
His motto has been “lose a soldier, replace him with another soldier”. This is BS.
Lose Gale, get Vickery - Fail
Lose Budddy, give Timmy the 23 - Fail
Lose Hill, get Scully - Fail
Lose Rough, get Patton - Fail
Lose Cyril, get Wingard - Fail
Lose Frawley, get Hartigan -Fail
Get rid of all time greats Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge for a bag of chips and replace them with TOM and JOM in return for our draft future and become a bottom four side four years later - Fail
Recruit players with a history of injury and rehabilitate them because we have the best doctors and it worked once with Burgoyne- Fail

Clarkson is totally unaccountable. He tells the world we’re a young side which is again total B S. Players like Lewis, Moore, Hanrahan, Cousins, Morrison, Worpel, Howe, O’Brien have all been on the list for at least four years. CJ and Kosi have been on the list for three years and the rest of this year’s regulars five plus years. Day is the one exception. These guys may be inexperienced at AFL level but that’s because they’re not good enough to get regular AFL games. Buddy Franklin kicked 100 goals in his fourth season. I know it’s not fair to compare to Buddy but the fact is if they’re good enough, they’ll play, just look at Will Day. These are the sort of players you need to win flags. This whole Box Hill apprenticeship stuff is BS. Michael Tuck and Dipper playing 50 games in the reserves was over 40 years ago, it’s not relevant.
Clarko likes to compare 2021 to 2005 and 2010. More BS. Clarko inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Osborne, BAteman, Sewell, Campbell, Dixon and J Smith when he took over the club. He then got a priority pick that got us Buddy. In 2010 the core of the 2008 side was still there including Buddy, Rough, Cyril, Lewis and Birchall. The only truly young players we currently have that would have the ability of those players is Day and maybe CJ.
Hawthorn is not just a middle of the road side, they have become totally irrelevant in the AFL landscape. Terrible performances like Saturday’s are just ignored and accepted and Clarko continues to remain totally unaccountable for the mess he has largely created.



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I’ve heard for the past 20 years that Clarko is quite obsessive about his work, and is often at the club until late. He may be guilty of some micromanaging and other corporate faux pas, but his credibility is undeniable. Forgetting his flags and other achievements, he has had a transformative effect on the club. Our club has largely avoided the management and PR debacles which affect most clubs. You only have to look at our player retention to know about the club environment. Buddy, Hill, Pittonet and Smith must be the only players to leave in the last decade who we might’ve preferred to keep. Clarko is still the man
Well of course when re building you hand over to younger players, but thats what I saw anyway on Saturday, and we got massacred, the week before we got hold of the Crows and made another "come back" But to say after 6 or 7 rounds there is no changes is just wrong.
There are changes and watching last week on Saturday as the Saints ate us alive, except for one quarter, I didn't know many heads , build takes time, getting all to fall into a plan and way of playing takes time and one other ingredient , top quality human beings, not the greatest sportspeople in the world but people of character, who learn and commit, we had that pretty regularly after 2008 , and we fulfilled it totally for 4 years losing in 2012 and winning three in a row after.
Be patient don't knock, especially the way this Coach works, those Premiership teams from 2005 to 2015 ( and nearly 2016 except for one kick (where we would have got hold of Sydney the next week) we will never see that again, nor will any other club , maybe Richmond , but I don't reckon the opposition is like what we faced only 5 or 6 years ago.
As for the midfield mix we "managed two normal entrants , and Burgs was out, No Ceglar of course, he gets his unfair share of rubbishing, so the changes are there, and will slowly spread, we are more than a bottom 4 team too. But we are learning and we have new faces everywhere , so many in fact that Bert Newton would change clubs!!!!!
That post is now about 4-5 weeks old... I’m pretty satisfied with how things are tracking, new players getting opportunities
 

Siri

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Whether comments about the board becoming weary of AC are true or not, the man has lost some shine. Two drafts after the "middle of the road" comments our performances on the field have deteriorated markedly & our list may have regressed. I presume we've been outbid on marquee players ... but who knows as we're no longer a destination club. Hopefully things are changing at HFC cos we've definitely stagnated and questions need to be asked both on & off the field. If that means reassessing AC's viability, then why not. I just hope the club has the balls to be objective. I've really enjoyed reading the different opinions in this thread as the "In Clarko we trust", "In Wrighty we trust" & "be thankful for 08 & the threepeat" comments are dull. I am thankful. I love the bloke & the club.

In the great man's own words, 'Sharks, they have to have forward momentum. Sharks die … they die if they get caught in a net because there's no water and oxygen running over their gills. So as soon as they stop, they die".

That analogy applies to more than just the GFC.
 

theiaofseed

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This year will be 6 years since a finals win, 4 of our last 5 seasons msssing the 8 all together, 2nd straight season in the bottom 4. The Kicker of that is we've barely scratched the surface of the rebuild despite that really average 5 year period. We're still minimum 2-3 years away off playing finals and that's assuming we make better choices than we have in recent times.
End of 2005 did you see 2008 coming? End of 2010 did you see the next 6 years coming? Stop talking like it's a fact.
 

HODGEYROAD

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End of 2005 did you see 2008 coming? End of 2010 did you see the next 6 years coming? Stop talking like it's a fact.
Didn't see it coming that quickly I'll admit, but I was alot more bullish about our under 23 players in 2005, eg Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughead and Lewis.

I was actually rather annoyed in 2010 as I thought we'd be a top 4 side going into that season, so no whilst I didn't think a 3 peat would arrive I was very bullish about our list and top end talent then.
 

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