Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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The hands of stone

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Their kids are playing and doing some very exciting things for them. Perkins and Cox especially. Some of their other high draft picks playing well also.

Not necessarily planned by them but like Port before them showing the benefit of hitting the draft hard. Lucky it’s Essendon and they will stuff it up. (Getting pick 7 for Daniher rather than picks 3 and 9)

Just look at the excitement Day brings to our fans. Who doesn’t want more of that? Build a strong core to drive us up the ladder in a number of years. This floundering in no mans land doesn’t work. And we are running low on bargaining chips and talent half due to trading for the 3-peat and half the car crash after it.

So it’s time to start low and hit the draft pick, get players than are way undervalued at other clubs. Think your Amon, Scrimshaw, Impey etc. let’s not go for people injured. See what extra draft picks we can get. Then play those younger guys we see a future in. If we win 2-3 more games with older guys but the youngsters don’t get game time or played out of position. Worps and Finn on the half forward flank for instance. Did we really win? Move the older heads around.

Let’s face it full team in and we aren’t good, let alone with a couple of injuries.
Full team in which rarely happens we are a mid range side say 9-12. Which is where we do not want to be.
Adding JOM , Wingard , Sicily and Day in are very good ins for any side and add class we lack. Best 22 isnt that bad.

A few out especially those type of players we are genuine bottom 4 as Saturday showed.
 

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Full team in which rarely happens we are a mid range side say 9-12. Which is where we do not want to be.
Adding JOM , Wingard , Sicily and Day in are very good ins for any side and add class we lack. Best 22 isnt that bad.

A few out especially those type of players we are genuine bottom 4 as Saturday showed.
Full team in and full teams in for other clubs I dont think we are 9th. Cats, Tigers, Dogs, Lions, Giants, Eagles, Port, Dees all cleary ahead of us and I'd say Saints and Swans too, which puts us 11th at best.
 

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HODGEYROAD

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Full team in and full teams in for other clubs I dont think we are 9th. Cats, Tigers, Dogs, Lions, Giants, Eagles, Port, Dees all cleary ahead of us and I'd say Saints and Swans too, which puts us 11th at best.
I think Carlton have a better best 22 also. The only teams I can categorically say I think we're stronger than talent wise at the moment are Crows and North.
 

offtherails9

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I don’t like to justify my posts but the point was would the Clarkson circa 2021 still do the same thing if he was coaching the 07 side, NOT the rabble he is coaching in 2021. I think not.

Sorry if it was too subtle for you to pick up. I’ll try to be more obvious next time.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Fair enough bud. It is a good question. I guess you're just far too intelligent and I couldn't pick up your question. Thanks
 

JoondalupJ

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Whether comments about the board becoming weary of AC are true or not, the man has lost some shine. Two drafts after the "middle of the road" comments our performances on the field have deteriorated markedly & our list may have regressed. I presume we've been outbid on marquee players ... but who knows as we're no longer a destination club. Hopefully things are changing at HFC cos we've definitely stagnated and questions need to be asked both on & off the field. If that means reassessing AC's viability, then why not. I just hope the club has the balls to be objective. I've really enjoyed reading the different opinions in this thread as the "In Clarko we trust", "In Wrighty we trust" & "be thankful for 08 & the threepeat" comments are dull. I am thankful. I love the bloke & the club.

In the great man's own words, 'Sharks, they have to have forward momentum. Sharks die … they die if they get caught in a net because there's no water and oxygen running over their gills. So as soon as they stop, they die".

That analogy applies to more than just the GFC.
All Clarko knockers need to actually look at all the other clubs and then look at Clarkson, then pull your heads in.

He's on the board, and will do the job with what he has got or can get, Clarkson never is a fast tracker, and it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are, the likes of that 13 to 14 to 15/16 will never be seen again. Clarko knew how to recruit and so did his admin football people, Clarko saw character, not necessarily football super talent but his players learnt and played his way no questions asked!
Buddy gave us two Premierships, played in a loser with us as well 2012, the comment above about who we replaced him with, sh*t have a look at Collingwood, who'd they have to replace! C'mon think.
Even Richmond will not reach the heights of the once in a hundred years team we had.
You can't replace or rebuild that, just like you can't replace Bud, all you can do is try to. We'll do fine! Check out Melbourne and all the hype about people who coached them, they haven't won a flag since 1964!
SH*T Polly Farmer was fresh into Victoria winning against us the year before in the GF, I MEAN THE TV FOOTY WAS IN BLACK AND WHITE, ha ha ha !
Leave our super coach alone no one can have him.
4 premierships one runner up, and 2016 one kick and we would have taken Sydney out the next week. YES we had them that year.
Nah!!! Clarko is one of a kind, and I have never found him putting tickets on himself, ever! So get off the horse if the rides too difficult. Clarko won't!
 

LMGjr

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Mournful... come on mate. I’m pretty sure I have been rather optimistic throughout the duration but have always been pushing a line of getting to the top end of the draft for 3-4 years.
I’m happy with the trades that have been made just not then ones that didn’t happen.
I wonder if at the end of 2017 with 2018 in mind we made a trade and picked up Bailey Smith and another trade in the same period for a future pick and landed Anderson, Jackson or Serong.
Hawthorn are middle of the road not because they didn’t try. It’s because they didn’t see what was coming and didn’t try hard enough.
Mate, looking backwards does what? What does it do? It didn't happen, so all your doing is sprouting how you knew better, without fear or being held to account personally. I too am a genius in hindsight. I know the lotto numbers after not winning..........

We are here now - you don't have a monopoly on who saw what when, but in trying to bring it to everyone's attention consistently your trying to say you're smater then everybody else. The same with the others who post this backward looking "I knew we should have done this and that..." it's arrogant mate. Did you predict covid?

Accept that their are many smart supporters who saw whatever it is they saw, whenever they saw it, without the need to remind everyone all the time at every chance to remind of us of who saw what first. There be plenty smarter supporters then me, but they remain quite, and let things unfold in their own time, without the need to say it.

We all support the Hawks mate, would love to catch for beer one day, but going over what didn't happen is pointless, because we are here now - not anywhere else, so all that truly matters is what happens form this very moment now. Look at what we've changed and give it time.

I have faith that this club has proved time and again that when it looks at itself it wakes up. When it wakes up look out - so look out!!!

I believe this because we have the runs on the board to prove it as a club, no other club comes close to setting mistakes to rights as Hawthorn in the afl comp, since 1961. Why would it be any different now? Even if Clarko isn't the next coach lifting our next premiership cup aloft he'll still have been a key component to it happening. This guy is our modern day John Kennedy Snr, how about we realize it while he is still at the club, not at another many years later.

Lets look at what happens from now and get behind it, as supporters of the best club in the world. Is this hard to get behind?

Sometimes forward progress can't be identified with anything but faith - I will not apologize for having it now. I didn't two years ago for your information, to show that I don't live in the clouds.
 
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bris tarangau

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All Clarko knockers need to actually look at all the other clubs and then look at Clarkson, then pull your heads in.

He's on the board, and will do the job with what he has got or can get, Clarkson never is a fast tracker, and it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are, the likes of that 13 to 14 to 15/16 will never be seen again. Clarko knew how to recruit and so did his admin football people, Clarko saw character, not necessarily football super talent but his players learnt and played his way no questions asked!
Buddy gave us two Premierships, played in a loser with us as well 2012, the comment above about who we replaced him with, sh*t have a look at Collingwood, who'd they have to replace! C'mon think.
Even Richmond will not reach the heights of the once in a hundred years team we had.
You can't replace or rebuild that, just like you can't replace Bud, all you can do is try to. We'll do fine! Check out Melbourne and all the hype about people who coached them, they haven't won a flag since 1964!
SH*T Polly Farmer was fresh into Victoria winning against us the year before in the GF, I MEAN THE TV FOOTY WAS IN BLACK AND WHITE, ha ha ha !
Leave our super coach alone no one can have him.
4 premierships one runner up, and 2016 one kick and we would have taken Sydney out the next week. YES we had them that year.
Nah!!! Clarko is one of a kind, and I have never found him putting tickets on himself, ever! So get off the horse if the rides too difficult. Clarko won't!
This! How can I like this a hundred times?

Seriously, there is no one else out there that can rebuild this club NOW, and Sam Mitchell is still learning the ropes under the guidance of the BEST.
 

LMGjr

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I think Carlton have a better best 22 also. The only teams I can categorically say I think we're stronger than talent wise at the moment are Crows and North.
Mate, Carltank would want to have a better effing list after having done nothing for 30yrs with spoons coming out their arse now they can't cheat.

Effing serious what world do you lot live in?

Blame it on someone world because it's to tough to handle !! FMD
 

Judd2Sewell

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All Clarko knockers need to actually look at all the other clubs and then look at Clarkson, then pull your heads in.

He's on the board, and will do the job with what he has got or can get, Clarkson never is a fast tracker, and it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are, the likes of that 13 to 14 to 15/16 will never be seen again. Clarko knew how to recruit and so did his admin football people, Clarko saw character, not necessarily football super talent but his players learnt and played his way no questions asked!
Buddy gave us two Premierships, played in a loser with us as well 2012, the comment above about who we replaced him with, sh*t have a look at Collingwood, who'd they have to replace! C'mon think.
Even Richmond will not reach the heights of the once in a hundred years team we had.
You can't replace or rebuild that, just like you can't replace Bud, all you can do is try to. We'll do fine! Check out Melbourne and all the hype about people who coached them, they haven't won a flag since 1964!
SH*T Polly Farmer was fresh into Victoria winning against us the year before in the GF, I MEAN THE TV FOOTY WAS IN BLACK AND WHITE, ha ha ha !
Leave our super coach alone no one can have him.
4 premierships one runner up, and 2016 one kick and we would have taken Sydney out the next week. YES we had them that year.
Nah!!! Clarko is one of a kind, and I have never found him putting tickets on himself, ever! So get off the horse if the rides too difficult. Clarko won't!
If Richmond 3peat and have thus won four out of the last five, then they will have surpassed us. Only a mere several years later too.

Regardless of whether we think our peak team would flog theirs, which I honestly believe we would, their record will speak for itself.

Clarko was the best. Now the jury is out on where he sits amongst the current coaches, given the mistakes of recent years that are coming back to haunt us in various ways.

All the greatest coaches have a used-by date, every single one of them. This includes Matthews, Sheedy, Malthouse, Parkin, etc etc and it includes Clarko too.

The question is whether that time is approaching. I think we'll know a lot more come the end of this season.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Mate, Carltank would want to have a better effing list after having done nothing for 30yrs with spoons coming out their arse now they can't cheat.

Effing serious what world do you lot live in?

Blame it on someone world because it's to tough to handle !! FMD
The timeframe of their perpetual rebuild doesn't change the current reality of the situation.

Though it would be laughable if they weren't ahead of us after all these years of rebuilding. And who knows, if Cripps bounces back to WA they may find themselves behind us again very soon.
 

Walshawk

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If Richmond 3peat and have thus won four out of the last five, then they will have surpassed us. Only a mere several years later too.

Regardless of whether we think our peak team would flog theirs, which I honestly believe we would, their record will speak for itself.

Clarko was the best. Now the jury is out on where he sits amongst the current coaches, given the mistakes of recent years that are coming back to haunt us in various ways.

All the greatest coaches have a used-by date, every single one of them. This includes Matthews, Sheedy, Malthouse, Parkin, etc etc and it includes Clarko too.

The question is whether that time is approaching. I think we'll know a lot more come the end of this season.
Clarko is twenty years younger than Wayne Bennett, who is still in the top two coaches in the NRL. Clarko could have this rebuild, then success, then another rebuild still in him.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Clarko is twenty years younger than Wayne Bennett, who is still in the top two coaches in the NRL. Clarko could have this rebuild, then success, then another rebuild still in him.
He could. Or he could fizzle out like Sheedy and overstay his welcome by a few years.

It's safe to say that the likes a of Bennett, SAF, Bill Bielicek, and Pop are the exceptions to the rule for now. We are talking about four managers out of literally thousands upon thousands. Questions are being asked of the last two now, after all these years.
 

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Clarko is twenty years younger than Wayne Bennett, who is still in the top two coaches in the NRL. Clarko could have this rebuild, then success, then another rebuild still in him.
Bennett has done it at five different clubs and been at one club on two separate occasions. Reckon there's a reason for that?

I'm not suggesting AC needs to be moved on, but it would be a dereliction of duty not to review him objectively & then come to an informed decision about the way ahead.
 
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LMGjr

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The timeframe of their perpetual rebuild doesn't change the current reality of the situation.

Though it would be laughable if they weren't ahead of us after all these years of rebuilding. And who knows, if Cripps bounces back to WA they may find themselves behind us again very soon.
Different mind sets for each club - you can not wash away a mentality of being superior to everyone else easily, so yeah, they will find themselves behind us quick smart, now we've looked in the mirror, because we are not afraid as a club to admit we f’ed up. To suggest otherwise is a insult to the Kenneyd's, Parkins, Jeans, Dunstal's, Scotts, Kennett's, Doc Ferg's and Clarkos.

Can't move forward until this realized, taken on board, understood, accepted, and a plan is developed from it.

The fact you and others think this isn't happening is a mark against you, not the club.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Different mind sets for each club - you can not wash away a mentality of being superior to everyone else easily, so yeah, they will find themselves behind us quick smart, now we've looked in the mirror, because we are not afraid as a club to admit we f’ed up. To suggest otherwise is a insult to the Kenneyd's, Parkins, Jeans, Dunstal's, Scotts, Kennett's, Doc Ferg's and Clarkos.

Can't move forward until this realized, taken on board, understood, accepted, and a plan is developed from it.

The fact you and others think this isn't happening is a mark against you, not the club.
The reality is we haven't been superior to everyone since 2015. Since then we have clearly been inferior to the majority of the teams in the league.

Just claiming or thinking we are superior, simply because we are Hawthorn and they are Carlton, is ridiculously naive to say the least. That's in part how you get into messes like the one we are currently in.

They have 16 flags as a club, so at one point they might have thought the exact same things that you're on about - which is essentially having a sense of entitled superiority.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the fact you and others think this isn't happening.."

If you're referring to rebuilding or the change in direction after the failed "rebuild on the run" then you're wrong.
 
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The hands of stone

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Full team in and full teams in for other clubs I dont think we are 9th. Cats, Tigers, Dogs, Lions, Giants, Eagles, Port, Dees all cleary ahead of us and I'd say Saints and Swans too, which puts us 11th at best.
So pretty much in the range I was suggesting , no injuries , full health and everything going perfect to plan ....which doesnt happen very often if at all .
 

JoondalupJ

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If Richmond 3peat and have thus won four out of the last five, then they will have surpassed us. Only a mere several years later too.

Regardless of whether we think our peak team would flog theirs, which I honestly believe we would, their record will speak for itself.

Clarko was the best. Now the jury is out on where he sits amongst the current coaches, given the mistakes of recent years that are coming back to haunt us in various ways.

All the greatest coaches have a used-by date, every single one of them. This includes Matthews, Sheedy, Malthouse, Parkin, etc etc and it includes Clarko too.

The question is whether that time is approaching. I think we'll know a lot more come the end of this season.
[/QUO

There is no use-by date Clarkson is coaching a near brand new group, of people. If he is enjoying his job "use-by" has no meaning.
I think by looking at the champions that he moved on over the years after 2015 , shows that Clarkson will change directions and he has never shied away from trying out things and using people. And showing them what's expected, including those in the beginning 2005 and 6 and 7 who were left on the ground to be mangled by gorilla typed centre half forwards, he wound up at Saints and Freo. There was another bean, I think Thurgood ?? not sure, as game as you like but too light. But the saint /freo boy his strength was as a centre half back! Clarko never kept him, but he sure showed him.

Richmond compared to our threepeat, are relentless and deadly, its not about if you could put the top strengthed sides of these clubs together today and play a game, winning is not my point, I think the point here is character of a team, Richmond have it, and have learnt, Clarkson added to the strength of the people Hawthorn have always hunted, to be part of the club and I think they got the perfect characters in, for Clarkson to mould into his game plan because they were excellent honest and prepared to learn, and work like crazy men until their precision was almost perfect. And their mind set!!

They amazed me in times past, I mean I couldn't believe them at times and tons of depth.

The tough boys from the Hawks 80's club, would not have stood with them , but the 80's mob might have murdered them physically if they played 80's footy. ha ha !
I don't think Richmond is there yet, but could be , I have the utmost respect for Richmond and Damien Hardwick a protege of Clarkson, they are on their way those Tiges , they could pull off the fourpeat , doesn't make them as alike to our 2014 and 2015 teams, yet! 12 AND 13 WERE PRETTY DAMN GOOD. SHOWS HOW GOOD FREO WERE, NEARLY CAME BACK, We lost in 12, and learnt.

With Clarko use by doesn't come into it , it a way of life, to patient men or women who set goals and say that's the path, eventually I guess it may not work but hell what a ton of teaching he has done , like Leigh and like Sheeds, Alan Jeans, Barrasi there are more, but that Hawthorn team 13-14-15, we will never see again, the game is too changed too over umpired.

But when a coach devises a way to find the shortest way to goal and has the players with the capacity to do it, we might get rid of this boring boundary line never never ending play, Clarkson is that kind of patient planner , who might just find it?

And I bet there's a couple of guns just waiting to come through too.

Long term coaches don't have use by dates. Its length of time that gives them new challenges through every group, and our club pick character whether you are a cleaner or the next Brownlow medalist or the President or the CEO, or one of the people men and women that are in admin, that is our Hawks. Use By , no such thing!
 

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All Clarko knockers need to actually look at all the other clubs and then look at Clarkson, then pull your heads in.

He's on the board, and will do the job with what he has got or can get, Clarkson never is a fast tracker, and it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are, the likes of that 13 to 14 to 15/16 will never be seen again. Clarko knew how to recruit and so did his admin football people, Clarko saw character, not necessarily football super talent but his players learnt and played his way no questions asked!
Buddy gave us two Premierships, played in a loser with us as well 2012, the comment above about who we replaced him with, sh*t have a look at Collingwood, who'd they have to replace! C'mon think.
Even Richmond will not reach the heights of the once in a hundred years team we had.
You can't replace or rebuild that, just like you can't replace Bud, all you can do is try to. We'll do fine! Check out Melbourne and all the hype about people who coached them, they haven't won a flag since 1964!
SH*T Polly Farmer was fresh into Victoria winning against us the year before in the GF, I MEAN THE TV FOOTY WAS IN BLACK AND WHITE, ha ha ha !
Leave our super coach alone no one can have him.
4 premierships one runner up, and 2016 one kick and we would have taken Sydney out the next week. YES we had them that year.
Nah!!! Clarko is one of a kind, and I have never found him putting tickets on himself, ever! So get off the horse if the rides too difficult. Clarko won't!
We wouldn’t have beaten GWS at Spotless Stadium in the Prelim like the Dogs did
In fact, we have never won at that ground
 

LMGjr

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The reality is we haven't been superior to everyone since 2015. Since then we have clearly been inferior to you majority of the teams in the league.

Just claiming or thinking we are superior, simply because we are Hawthorn and they are Carlton, is ridiculously naive to say the least. That's in part how you get into messes like the one we are currently in.

They have 16 flags as a club, so at one point they might have thought the exact same things that you're on about - which is essentially having a sense of entitled superiority.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the fact you and others think this isn't happening.."

If you're referring to rebuilding or the change in direction after the failed "rebuild on the run" then you're wrong.
Can you actually read mate? Or is taking things out of context just your way to keep the same boring tune going?

I don't know why I'm bothering replying to be honest.

It's not the Hawks that have a superiority complex mate, that's why I said that now we've looked in the mirror we'll overtake them again, regardless of all there draft picks. The fact you can't see the difference in attitude between the two clubs and understand what i wrote is blight on you mate.
 

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All Clarko knockers need to actually look at all the other clubs and then look at Clarkson, then pull your heads in.

He's on the board, and will do the job with what he has got or can get, Clarkson never is a fast tracker, and it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are, the likes of that 13 to 14 to 15/16 will never be seen again. Clarko knew how to recruit and so did his admin football people, Clarko saw character, not necessarily football super talent but his players learnt and played his way no questions asked!
Buddy gave us two Premierships, played in a loser with us as well 2012, the comment above about who we replaced him with, sh*t have a look at Collingwood, who'd they have to replace! C'mon think.
Even Richmond will not reach the heights of the once in a hundred years team we had.
You can't replace or rebuild that, just like you can't replace Bud, all you can do is try to. We'll do fine! Check out Melbourne and all the hype about people who coached them, they haven't won a flag since 1964!
SH*T Polly Farmer was fresh into Victoria winning against us the year before in the GF, I MEAN THE TV FOOTY WAS IN BLACK AND WHITE, ha ha ha !
Leave our super coach alone no one can have him.
4 premierships one runner up, and 2016 one kick and we would have taken Sydney out the next week. YES we had them that year.
Nah!!! Clarko is one of a kind, and I have never found him putting tickets on himself, ever! So get off the horse if the rides too difficult. Clarko won't!
Richmond are playing to eclipse what we did this season, should they win that's 4 in 5 including a 3 peat. So yes whilst they may not certaintly win it how can you catergocially say they won't reach our heights at this point in time ?
 

HODGEYROAD

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Mate, Carltank would want to have a better effing list after having done nothing for 30yrs with spoons coming out their arse now they can't cheat.

Effing serious what world do you lot live in?

Blame it on someone world because it's to tough to handle !! FMD
So what are you trying to say by this point ? It merely seems you agree Carlton currently have the more talented list but it would be a disgrace if they didn't due to access to all the early draft picks compared to us ?

I never said they shouldn't have the better list given how long they've been down, all I pointed out is I think they do and you seem to agree so what's the point of you quoting me ?
 

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