Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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HODGEYROAD

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Clarko is a genius coach, I would just like him to be kept away from team selection and recruiting decisions during the rebuilding phase.

Pelchen knew to keep him away from those areas, but threw him a bone to keep him happy with Stewey Dew.
Very interesting take that is.
 

Nastyfish

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The reality is we haven't been superior to everyone since 2015. Since then we have clearly been inferior to you majority of the teams in the league.

Just claiming or thinking we are superior, simply because we are Hawthorn and they are Carlton, is ridiculously naive to say the least. That's in part how you get into messes like the one we are currently in.

They have 16 flags as a club, so at one point they might have thought the exact same things that you're on about - which is essentially having a sense of entitled superiority.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the fact you and others think this isn't happening.."

If you're referring to rebuilding or the change in direction after the failed "rebuild on the run" then you're wrong.
We are poor now, and were last year (middle of the road in 2019!), but the two years we finished top four we were clearly better than most teams in the comp.

I think outrage and angst at being down the bottom for what in actual fact is a very small part of the last 50 years is kinda the flip side of all that success ...as supporters we’re not great at swallowing the rebuilding pill, cause its unaccustomed. Let’s hope it stays that way! Fair enough to ask the questions about the coach but also fair enough for some people to believe in him given the really good coaches are few and far between.
 

The hands of stone

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Clarko is a genius coach, I would just like him to be kept away from team selection and recruiting decisions during the rebuilding phase.

Pelchen knew to keep him away from those areas, but threw him a bone to keep him happy with Stewey Dew.
Would be very interesting to know what the current mix and dynamic is .

Right now and going ahead we need assistants and recruiters who will challenge Clarko.
He is a competitor and I reckon this gets the absolute best from him.
Running his own show I think its ending one way .
 

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BuddyHawk

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We wouldn't have played a prelim at Spotless. Would have been either SCG or MCG.
If Isaac had goaled after the siren and we‘d beaten the Cats, we would have played the Swans in a prelim at the ‘G. We would have had a very good chance of winning that, even as a declining force, as we matched up well against the Swans back then.

The hypothetical GF would have been against one of the Dogs, Cats or Giants, and who would have bet against us on grand final day? Smith’s miss really was a sliding doors moment.
 

HODGEYROAD

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If Isaac had goaled after the siren and we‘d beaten the Cats, we would have played the Swans in a prelim at the ‘G. We would have had a very good chance of winning that, even as a declining force, as we matched up well against the Swans back then.

The hypothetical GF would have been against one of the Dogs, Cats or Giants, and who would have bet against us on grand final day? Smith’s miss really was a sliding doors moment.
I reckon we'd have probably edged Sydney in a home prelim, but likely really struggled against the run, carry and momentum of either of these two on GF day.

Anyways that sort of discussion is way off topic for this thread.
 

Linda CRS

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The reality is we haven't been superior to everyone since 2015. Since then we have clearly been inferior to you majority of the teams in the league.

Just claiming or thinking we are superior, simply because we are Hawthorn and they are Carlton, is ridiculously naive to say the least. That's in part how you get into messes like the one we are currently in.

They have 16 flags as a club, so at one point they might have thought the exact same things that you're on about - which is essentially having a sense of entitled superiority.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the fact you and others think this isn't happening.."

If you're referring to rebuilding or the change in direction after the failed "rebuild on the run" then you're wrong.
Well said. Hit the nail on the head, we are in the mess of disbelief.
Clarkson is clearly one of the most loyal and competitive people god put breath into but even he would be rationalising this is nearly done. Our list is basically what he took over 16 years ago. We have 15 footballers 9/10 of which played Saturday night that we all know won’t make near a finals side. It’s now how the club and Clarko manage the exit, not if. Who replaces him? Clarkson 2005 in the perfect world.
 

Walshawk

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Well said. Hit the nail on the head, we are in the mess of disbelief.
Clarkson is clearly one of the most loyal and competitive people god put breath into but even he would be rationalising this is nearly done. Our list is basically what he took over 16 years ago. We have 15 footballers 9/10 of which played Saturday night that we all know won’t make near a finals side. It’s now how the club and Clarko manage the exit, not if. Who replaces him? Clarkson 2005 in the perfect world.
There is no one as ready to coach as Clarko was in 2005.
It is always a matter of when a coach will more on. I bet Clarko will still be our coach in 2024. We will certainly know by then if he is the man to take us back to the top.
 

Mercy Seat

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The game goes past a lot of coaches and that's how they end up overstaying their welcome. Has it gone past Clarko? From what I hear and what I see, I honestly don't think so. The guy is still the most educated and learned football brain in the industry, and I'd trust him over just about any other coach in the league with a half decent list.

Our issues are we don't have a great list. And Clarko is surely responsible in part for that, but we are paying for an ambitious list strategy from 15-19 that just didn't work off, and a few other circumstantial things.

Does Clarko have the patience to see this through and the ability to approach our list problems with an unsentimental, fresh approach? I think that's the question that a lot of supporters ultimately are asking themselves, but I'm certainly one leaning towards - yes.
 

HODGEYROAD

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The game goes past a lot of coaches and that's how they end up overstaying their welcome. Has it gone past Clarko? From what I hear and what I see, I honestly don't think so. The guy is still the most educated and learned football brain in the industry, and I'd trust him over just about any other coach in the league with a half decent list.

Our issues are we don't have a great list. And Clarko is surely responsible in part for that, but we are paying for an ambitious list strategy from 15-19 that just didn't work off, and a few other circumstantial things.

Does Clarko have the patience to see this through and the ability to approach our list problems with an unsentimental, fresh approach? I think that's the question that a lot of supporters ultimately are asking themselves, but I'm certainly one leaning towards - yes.
That's a pretty fair and well balanced post.
 

Stratton24

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There's no doubt he can still coach, and has the passion for it. But he also has to take responsibility that our list is on par with North's at present.

I've said before, I'd be throwing the sink at Stephen Wells. What we need the most is a gun list manager.
The last thing we need is a list manager that butchers first round picks and relies on father sons and hiding players in the lower level to pick as mature age recruits.
 

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cryptor

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We've used our first round pick as everyone wanted in the last two drafts. We also haven't traded our future first either. If Clarko has some unilateral control over our drafting strategy then it's clear that it's currently to hit the draft.

So are people suggesting he should go now because he happened to be wrong years ago when our list was still theoretically capable of further success and it was a reasonable move in that context?
 

kirbatron

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We've used our first round pick as everyone wanted in the last two drafts. We also haven't traded our future first either. If Clarko has some unilateral control over our drafting strategy then it's clear that it's currently to hit the draft.

So are people suggesting he should go now because he happened to be wrong years ago when our list was still theoretically capable of further success and it was a reasonable move in that context?
the quandry is more his committment to some players from that failed strategy.
 

Nastyfish

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the quandry is more his committment to some players from that failed strategy.
I think clarko honoured his commitment to those players because we had a genuine crack that didn’t work. Now we have moved to the rebuild. The rebuild needs some good players alongside the kids otherwise it’s a massacre every week that helps no one. But if any of those guys omeara Mitchell wingard feel they need to go because they didn’t sign up for a rebuild, and provided we can get a good return, we might as well do the deal.
 

Brant

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If Isaac had goaled after the siren and we‘d beaten the Cats, we would have played the Swans in a prelim at the ‘G.
Smith’s miss really was a sliding doors moment.
Not particularly aimed at you BuddyHawk as there's thousands of people with the same stupid idea, but we kicked 12.11 that night - why is it Smith's miss that cost us the game? I'll hazard the guess that there were other, easier goals missed, under far less pressure.

It just screams "I'm frustrated & want someone to blame..."

If you want a 'sliding doors' moment, look to the decision early in the year, where it was decided that footsore was to be gifted a premiership & would be allowed to throw the ball unabated, for an entire year. 101 tackles for 3 free kicks in that final against them - there's your lost premiership.
 

Rushed_Behind

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Nothing is ever as bad as it seems or as good as it seems.

I think personally we can turn this around very quickly.

We have some decent players but not match winners.

Depending on how we rate this draft and how aggressive we want to be I wouldn’t be against trading next years first for a first and second this year. On top of that making a massive bid for merret and kelly.

I know it’s improbable of landing both but they would make a massive difference and are the types of players we lack.

Merret
Worpel
JOM
Titch
Wingard
Day
2021 our 1st pick (top 4)
2021 hypothetical 1st round
2021 our 2nd round
2021 pies 2nd round
2021 hypothetical 2nd round
DGB
Brockman
Kosi
Impey
CJ

Obviously we would need to nail the draft but I think the list has the depth players on it.

Players like Moore hanrahan cousins Morrison greaves etc instead of being 10-22 players would be great if they were 17-30 on the list.

There would still be holes but with Clarko we would be able to be very competitive. Which is scary because we could end up like dogs and saints 2007-2012. Thereabouts but never winning.
 

JoondalupJ

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Richmond are playing to eclipse what we did this season, should they win that's 4 in 5 including a 3 peat. So yes whilst they may not certaintly win it how can you catergocially say they won't reach our heights at this point in time ?
Because I see some difference, its simple, and Richmond may very well eclipse our standard, we did it from 2008, struggled through 2009 and 2010 came a whisker of taking out COLLINGWOOD in the Prelim 2011, runners up the next year, then 2013 had a contestant in Freo that came back strong in the second half, we won, then we whacked Sydney 2014 as good a whack, as anything Benjamin Siegel could do. Then in 2015 had some up and down finals then crushed them for the second time in a GF those Eagles, Richmonds GF in defeating the miserable Giants in 2019, before that they'd won against the Crows had a year off 2018, then beat Geelong in a short GF, now I am not knocking them by any means, I am simply comparing the journey and the competition. I think 14 and 15 we ground two top line outfits into the ground, no doubt about that, in 2016 one kick from that last few seconds and we would have had the FOURPEAT IN OUR SIGHTS , ANYTHIN G COULD HAVE HAPPENED.

So my point and opinion is we played in 5 GF's we nearly played in 6 in 2011 one game shy and real close, that has been 10 years , I think we were dangerous and almost at given time unbeatable after we came back around in 2011.

I don't think the Tigers have hiot that level, the game is different even the ongoing rule changes mash things uop now days, we wee the last of the champion teams. Plus we had the best coach running around us all that time.
 

kirbatron

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Which players are you referring to kirbatron
Jags, tom, chad (age 27+) etc.... can clarko look at the list objectively & will he be willing to take us in a different direction.

he might have had this conversation already but i think the club still feels it can contend in 2023. to me thats pie in the sky unless we get bold & aggressive.. ive seen no evidence of this with team selection, contracts, targeting fas... we seem very conversative still.

no doubt we are working hard behind the scenes. fingers crossed
 
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TheFourPillars

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Jags, tom, chad etc.... can clarko look at the list objectively & will he be willing to take us in a different direction.

he might have had this conversation already but i think the club still feels it can contend in 2023. to me thats pie in the sky unless we get bold & aggressive.. ive seen no evidence of this with team selection, contracts, targeting fas... we seem very conversative still.

no doubt we are working hard behind the scenes. fingers crossed
Ok ta mate so jags, tom and chad what are you suggesting we trade them? What objectivity are you looking for in this instance their performance their position in the side? I am still confused about your statement. I can only conclude you mean to trade one or all of them for draft picks and that you want to trade assets for draft picks is that what you are saying?
 

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