Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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theiaofseed

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Jun 17, 2019
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I would hate to force players out that still want to be here, i think the potential negative impact on our culture outweighs the potential positives of a stronger draft hand. If good offers come our way we of course have to entertain them and speak to the player as necessary, but as long as they still buy in to the direction the club takes I would prefer to keep them.

At any rate I think we have one of the better draft hands in the comp for 2021 so we don't urgently need to shed our better players for picks
I'd only consider Mitchell to free up Worpel and get a bit more mix in our midfield, it also free us up to land a free agent like Merrett.
 

H00t

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One thing going for us currently is we seem to have mostly sorted out our drafting. We’d been very hot and cold for quite a while there especially trying to get top end talent.

But we seem to have done pretty well from 2016. Especially given our lack of picks.

Having Worps, Day, CJ, Brockman and DGB (hopefully) as very good players with Lewis, Kosi, Jeka Morrison and Moore looking solid and hanrahan, Cousins, Reeves, Downie and Morris showing potential. I’ve left a few out who I’m unsure on and probably forgotten others. But that’s a very decent haul given our lack of good draft picks.

Plus frustrating as well to think of all the extra talent we might have drafted if we had hit the draft a lot harder.

Still imagine how much more dire our future would be had we not hit so much in these drafts. It’s why I see the draft as the way out of this mess we are in. As many picks as we can get. Just need to keep hitting the draft. Because for all our faults in list management from end of 2016 to now our drafting hasn’t been one.
 
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SA HAWK

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One thing going for us currently is we seem to have mostly sorted out our drafting. We’d been very hot and cold for quite a while there especially trying to get top end talent.

But we seem to have done pretty well from 2016. Especially given our lack of picks.

Having Worps, Day, CJ, Brockman and DGB as very good players with Lewis, Kosi, Jeka Morrison and Moore looking solid and hanrahan, Cousins, Reeves, Downie and Morris showing potential. I’ve left a few out who I’m unsure on and probably forgotten others. But that’s a very decent haul given our lack of good draft picks.

Plus frustrating as well to think of all the extra talent we might have drafted if we had hit the draft a lot harder.

Still imagine how much more dire our future would be had we not hit so much in these drafts. It’s why I see the draft as the way out of this mess we are in. As many picks as we can get. Just need to keep hitting the draft. Because for all our faults in list management from end of 2016 to now our drafting hasn’t been one.
DGB hasn't played a single game yet and you have called him a very good player.

Let's see what he can do first before passing judgement.
 

H00t

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DGB hasn't played a single game yet and you have called him a very good player.

Let's see what he can do first before passing judgement.
Happy to remove DGB from the very good players list but watching those games against bulldogs he looked a player. Just needs to put gain some strength.
 

Spursfan

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DGB hasn't played a single game yet and you have called him a very good player.

Let's see what he can do first before passing judgement.
That's fair. However on the welcome to hawthorn -DGB thread there are posters writing him off after half pre-season scratch match and couple of WAFL games. FFS let him get out on the park first.
 

tommyk72

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I had the post deleted in the other thread, though I suppose it is more relevant here.

Why couldn't we trade out players like Breust, Gunston and Shiels and offer to pay a portion of their salaries?

We have enough money to burn and the chances are that a high profile FA join us are slim-to-none.

So why not use that as leverage to trade guys like Breust and Shiels for first rounders to some contending team? We wouldn't get a first rounder in a straight trade for them, bar maybe be Gunston, so this would likely make those potential teams much more likely to be interested. This is similar to what NFL and NBA teams do.

I never wanted to trade out Breust and Gunston previously. But I think the situation is pretty dire at the moment and we simply need young talent walking through the door.
I think this suggestion needs more consideration. Don’t get caught up in the names. Think instead about the mechanism that’s being suggested.

We’ve got a lot of salary cap room. We’ve previously used that room to bring in under performing overpaid players players in the hope they can get to their best. We get them cheap (ie 3rd or 4th round draft picks instead of 2nd or late 1st) because we absorb their salary.

What if we flip this on its head. We trade out players (whether they’re top end or medium quality), absorb a heap of their salary, and bump up the compensation we get by a round? For example - and only and example - we’d probably get a second if we traded Impey on the open market. Could we trade him, pay 80% of his salary, and bump that up to a pick in the mid teens?

Not sure other clubs would go for it, as it may not look good, but it could be a great way for other clubs to improve their depth at a cheap (salary cap) price!
 

Judd2Sewell

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I think this suggestion needs more consideration. Don’t get caught up in the names. Think instead about the mechanism that’s being suggested.

We’ve got a lot of salary cap room. We’ve previously used that room to bring in under performing overpaid players players in the hope they can get to their best. We get them cheap (ie 3rd or 4th round draft picks instead of 2nd or late 1st) because we absorb their salary.

What if we flip this on its head. We trade out players (whether they’re top end or medium quality), absorb a heap of their salary, and bump up the compensation we get by a round? For example - and only and example - we’d probably get a second if we traded Impey on the open market. Could we trade him, pay 80% of his salary, and bump that up to a pick in the mid teens?

Not sure other clubs would go for it, as it may not look good, but it could be a great way for other clubs to improve their depth at a cheap (salary cap) price!
Yeah that's exactly what I was suggesting.

We have the money, so we may as well spend it on something in the shorter term.
 

Holy Rioli

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The soft cap is probably hampering us now too.
In the past we could have recruited almost anyone we needed in coaching, support or development roles.
Not so now.
The reason we don't have a Graeme Wright anymore is so that we could shift soft cap funds into the likes of Sammy Mitchell and Macrae to expedite player development.
 

Toasted

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Well said. Hit the nail on the head, we are in the mess of disbelief.
Clarkson is clearly one of the most loyal and competitive people god put breath into but even he would be rationalising this is nearly done. Our list is basically what he took over 16 years ago. We have 15 footballers 9/10 of which played Saturday night that we all know won’t make near a finals side. It’s now how the club and Clarko manage the exit, not if. Who replaces him? Clarkson 2005 in the perfect world.
This had me thinking, so see below team list from the 2005 team that beat Essendon in rd20.
 

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PhatHQ

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I had the post deleted in the other thread, though I suppose it is more relevant here.

Why couldn't we trade out players like Breust, Gunston and Shiels and offer to pay a portion of their salaries?

We have enough money to burn and the chances are that a high profile FA join us are slim-to-none.

So why not use that as leverage to trade guys like Breust and Shiels for first rounders to some contending team? We wouldn't get a first rounder in a straight trade for them, bar maybe be Gunston, so this would likely make those potential teams much more likely to be interested. This is similar to what NFL and NBA teams do.

I never wanted to trade out Breust and Gunston previously. But I think the situation is pretty dire at the moment and we simply need young talent walking through the door.
BLASPHEMY!!!
 

Mercy Seat

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This had me thinking, so see below team list from the 2005 team that beat Essendon in rd20.
All this shows me is that there were 10 players who would go on and play in a flag a couple years later and a bunch of older guys and imports who were able to play alongside most of those kids and bear the brunt of senior footy and let those kids develop. I don’t see much different to where we are at now, except for the fact there’s at least 5 future superstars in that team. Do we have that on our list currently? I’d say we are at least 1 draft away...
 

Charchi

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The reason we don't have a Graeme Wright anymore is so that we could shift soft cap funds into the likes of Sammy Mitchell and Macrae to expedite player development.
I‘m not sure why Sam Mitchell would come under our soft cap as Box Hill coach, any BH coach for that matter, they’re BH not Hawthorn coaching staff.

If they do it should only be part as there are non HFC listed players being coached.

I don’t see it as any different to clubs with AFLW teams who load up on support staff in that area.

Does anyone have the rules regarding the soft cap?
 

Cyzzametimbres

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Looking at our list we could use a better ruck, an outside mid, a winger, a KP defender, a pressure fwd. If we can snare a decent FA (unlikely) that would help the mids out. Then we have Brockman, Denver, Seamus/Finn, fitter Gunston, Sicily and games into Kosi/Jeka and others we haven’t seen or still developing. A classy outside mid would go a long way to improving us as well as whoever we pick up this draft. Our backline is pretty solid Day, Scimmers, Sicily, CJ, Hardwick and Frost are quality. Jaeger, Mitchell, Wingard, Shiels and Worpel is a decent midfield. Gunston and Breust the good forwards we have and hopefully a few others come on. Seems the forward line is the biggest problem and the hardest part to fix but the rest of the team looks in alright shape. Our wingers could be improved as well. Might need to rejig the backline and move some players up the ground. Day to the wing and Sicily back to the forward line maybe.
 

Steven Tyler

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Looking at our list we could use a better ruck, an outside mid, a winger, a KP defender, a pressure fwd. If we can snare a decent FA (unlikely) that would help the mids out. Then we have Brockman, Denver, Seamus/Finn, fitter Gunston, Sicily and games into Kosi/Jeka and others we haven’t seen or still developing. A classy outside mid would go a long way to improving us as well as whoever we pick up this draft. Our backline is pretty solid Day, Scimmers, Sicily, CJ, Hardwick and Frost are quality. Jaeger, Mitchell, Wingard, Shiels and Worpel is a decent midfield. Gunston and Breust the good forwards we have and hopefully a few others come on. Seems the forward line is the biggest problem and the hardest part to fix but the rest of the team looks in alright shape. Our wingers could be improved as well. Might need to rejig the backline and move some players up the ground. Day to the wing and Sicily back to the forward line maybe.
We don’t have damaging mids who hit the scoreboard
This is our biggest weakness I think
 

Easy Slips Catch

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We don’t have damaging mids who hit the scoreboard
This is our biggest weakness I think
Lewis, Mitchell and Sewell were not noted goalkickers. Combined they averaged about one goal a game.

Our mids stink cos they cannot hit a target by foot. Get some mids who can use the footy well then see what we have got.
 
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