Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Topiary

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Two weeks ago you wanted the board to extend Clarkson immediately, now you're copying over emotional rants from somewhere else.
My point two weeks ago and today remains the same. Make a decision. Re-appoint or don’t, the issue will only grow until the Club decides. Just watch the optics. Get on with it Hawthorn. We f..ked up, we always rebound but let’s get on with it. Please !!

The only reason I quoted the individual was to underline where some of the angst lies. Bottom line. AC was integral and involved in some horrific List decisions, but he is also a four time Premiership coach.

Let’s face it, it is only very recently we actually admitted how bad the List really is.

The club needs to make a call, but it needs to make it now, because the longer we dither, the further away the rebound remains. The further away the aggressive rebuild starts. But start we must. Or waste away.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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My point two weeks ago and today remains the same. Make a decision. Re-appoint or don’t, the issue will only grow until the Club decides. Just watch the optics. Get on with it Hawthorn. We f..ked up, we always rebound but let’s get on with it. Please !!

The only reason I quoted the individual was to underline where some of the angst lies. Bottom line. AC was integral and involved in some horrific List decisions, but he is also a four time Premiership coach.

Let’s face it, it is only very recently we actually admitted how bad the List really is.

The club needs to make a call, but it needs to make it now, because the longer we dither, the further away the rebound remains. The further away the aggressive rebuild starts. But start we must. Or waste away.
FFS Tops, the club made the call already. What have you been watching?

Can we stop doing this "the club don't know where we are at" bullshit every time we lose to a side that are better than us.
 

Hawk_francais

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I don’t know that people here really disagree with each other so violently.

On one side I agree with those who defend our players. There is plenty of vitriol towards TOB, Howe etc. whose selection has little to do with our poor performances (although I’d admit their continued selection ahead of untried players is sometimes baffling).

On the other side I think that some here seem to be unable to draw a timeline. Our next push appears 3-4 years away (optimistically), giving our best players long odds of playing any part. Yes, it could turn around more quickly, but we’ve been backing that horse for 4 years now.
 

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darthmann

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I don’t know that people here really disagree with each other so violently.

On one side I agree with those who defend our players. There is plenty of vitriol towards TOB, Howe etc. whose selection has little to do with our poor performances (although I’d admit their continued selection ahead of untried players is sometimes baffling).

On the other side I think that some here seem to be unable to draw a timeline. Our next push appears 3-4 years away (optimistically), giving our best players long odds of playing any part. Yes, it could turn around more quickly, but we’ve been backing that horse for 4 years now.
2023 seems the most optimistic time frame for pushing to be in the 8, but more likely 24 imo

the club is, will, and should be striving for excellence though, and that's why they've publicly stated their goal to be back playing finals in 2023

whether we reach that goal or not is a different story

3 top 25 picks this year will go a long way to beginning the list clean out
 

SA HAWK

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My point two weeks ago and today remains the same. Make a decision. Re-appoint or don’t, the issue will only grow until the Club decides. Just watch the optics. Get on with it Hawthorn. We f..ked up, we always rebound but let’s get on with it. Please !!

The only reason I quoted the individual was to underline where some of the angst lies. Bottom line. AC was integral and involved in some horrific List decisions, but he is also a four time Premiership coach.

Let’s face it, it is only very recently we actually admitted how bad the List really is.

The club needs to make a call, but it needs to make it now, because the longer we dither, the further away the rebound remains. The further away the aggressive rebuild starts. But start we must. Or waste away.
I think the club needs to do one of 3 things.

1. Clarko recommits to a few more years after his current contract expires.
2. Put a succession plan in place so Mitchell takes over after next year.
3. Clarko goes at the end of this season and either Mitch takes over or we get someone else.

If Mitchell gets poached at the end of the season and then Clarko decides to leave at the end of next year we have wasted another season imo.
 

Hawk_francais

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I think the club needs to do one of 3 things.

1. Clarko recommits to a few more years after his current contract expires.
2. Put a succession plan in place so Mitchell takes over after next year.
3. Clarko goes at the end of this season and either Mitch takes over or we get someone else.

If Mitchell gets poached at the end of the season and then Clarko decides to leave at the end of next year we have wasted another season imo.
I don't think the coaching question is particularly pressing. It's a question that will probably be answered next off season.

Clarko can coach, and the recruiting strategy 2017-19 was worth a shot. A bit of luck here or there and it could’ve seen us competing now.

This year could’ve gone a few different ways, but it has gone the most predictable route, following our trajectory downward since 2019, as we’ve lost more talent than we’ve gained.

What’s pressing is improving the state of our list, and the only way we can do that right now is to find out what we already have, and give the kind of sustained opportunity to guys like Finn, Downie and Jeka that wouldn’t be possible if the team was performing well, with roles being reliably held down. The selections over the past couple of weeks show that the wheel is turning.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Sorry these are not my words, but they are very apt. Many on here will say I continue to be too dramatic, too unrealistic, too extreme by simply quoting them, the HFC has reached a level which in my opinion, does not reflect the bottom of the curve.

Naively or otherwise, the HFC is f..ked, the simple lack of competence and standard is stark, the story will only grow.


“1. List is very poor, massive holes everywhere, lack AFL level skills

2. Gameplan has been found out, no run or dare, stagnant play

Mr Clarkson interfered with #1, that led to list debacle

Mr Clarkson is directly in charge of #2

With last rebuild we got 4 extra 1st round picks for Hay, Thompson, 2 × priority picks.

With this faux rebuild we have given away 3 first and 2 second rounders, plus 1sr round pick Burton and Second round Hill.

Which bone head thought this would work? Well it was A Clarkson, G Wright and approved by J Kennett.

Problem is only 1 of these failures has left and the other 2 are still protecting the ass of the other in their roles.

A dark 5 years awaits this once mighty club”.
These have been my words for some period of time now.
 

Gaston

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I think the club needs to do one of 3 things.

1. Clarko recommits to a few more years after his current contract expires.
2. Put a succession plan in place so Mitchell takes over after next year.
3. Clarko goes at the end of this season and either Mitch takes over or we get someone else.

If Mitchell gets poached at the end of the season and then Clarko decides to leave at the end of next year we have wasted another season imo.
If what has been dished up the last 2 weeks continues for another 5-6 weeks the board and footy department have some big decisions to make.
The rebuild will be minimum 5 years, Clarkson will be in his 23rd year by then.
Ask yourself this question, are you as enthusiastic in your own job after 5 years, let alone 25?
 

lethalselbow

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If what has been dished up the last 2 weeks continues for another 5-6 weeks the board and footy department have some big decisions to make.
The rebuild will be minimum 5 years, Clarkson will be in his 23rd year by then.
Ask yourself this question, are you as enthusiastic in your own job after 5 years, let alone 25?
Minimum 5 years till what happens? Till we can make finals?
 

Pessimistic

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A dark five years?

2005-2006-2007-2008-2009? Yes 2009 was a huge let down. While I think no club could possibly snag 40% of the talent available in one draft (2004)

I think 13 of the 2004 list were in the 2008 premiership so ‘massive clean out’ was an exaguration

but let’s look at the vibe in 2004 - we were blasted all round for employing Clarkson. Eade and Wallace went o the dogs and Richmond, who’s lists were ‘far advanced on ours’ there’d been a back page where two of the 2008 players were described as ‘mummy’s boys’
And then Wallace went public saying with delidio and Tambling he’d secured the best two in the draft and many many hawthorn ‘fans’ strenuously agreed with him.
 

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daniel23

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FFS Tops, the club made the call already. What have you been watching?

Can we stop doing this "the club don't know where we are at" bullshit every time we lose to a side that are better than us.
But every club is better then us?? What are your thoughts on it all you seem still fairly positive despite how badly we are travelling?. North are in a better spot then us, at least they have the likes of Powell,Phillips, ldu, larkey, t Thomas, simpkin, Stephenson, zurhar playing with a bit of x factor and excitement , we are just so bland in the players we have and gamestyle.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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But every club is better then us?? What are your thoughts on it all you seem still fairly positive despite how badly we are travelling?. North are in a better spot then us, at least they have the likes of Powell,Phillips, ldu, larkey, t Thomas, simpkin, Stephenson, zurhar playing with a bit of x factor and excitement , we are just so bland in the players we have and gamestyle.
On form pretty much every club is better than us, yes. That’s quite obvious.

I don’t care to go into the ins and outs of what other clubs have or what they’re doing because there’s a number of factors that are different for each club.
 

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If what has been dished up the last 2 weeks continues for another 5-6 weeks the board and footy department have some big decisions to make.
[/QUOTE]

So one big decision would be coach I'm guessing so hypothetically if coach requested a realease from contract and no reason given and club agreed to that well would that be for best. I mean if wanted to leave then let him and I forgot what the point is.
 

Gaston

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Minimum 5 years till what happens? Till we can make finals?
Competitive in finals.
What everyone seems to forget is that histroy will tell us that in 2005 we had 6 geenrational players.
Crawford, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughead and Lewis.
Then add a bold, revolutionary game plan and the holy grail was achieved far quicket than anticipated.

We would be lucky to have 1, maybe 2 on the list at the moment.
Expecting a quick turn around like we have seen in recent times is a little optimistic.
 

Jazzfan

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What everyone seems to forget is that histroy will tell us that in 2005 we had 6 geenrational players.
Crawford, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughead and Lewis.
Then add a bold, revolutionary game plan and the holy grail was achieved far quicket than anticipated.

We would be lucky to have 1, maybe 2 on the list at the moment.
Expecting a quick turn around like we have seen in recent times is a little optimistic.
I think we are further away then any club to contending again. We are in all sorts of trouble. It sucks. Thankfully we have had an amazing ride, not many clubs hit when they are in the zone, but we have clearly made poor decisions since.

We needed to get another pick in the first round last year to kickstart our rebuild. North and Essendon had 2 and 3 picks in the top 12 respectively. North are every chance of getting a priority pick this year also.

Fremantle are on a really good path. By 'losing' Weller and Neale, they obtained high picks. In 2017 they took Brayshaw and Cerra in the top 5. And in 2019, they had three top 10 picks, Serong, Young and Henry.

Sydney benefit from the academy, so that's an unfair comparison. But it's undeniable how much young talent they have on their list.

What is really alarming for me, and highlights why we are further away then any other club, is what Topiary mentioned in a previous post:

'last rebuild we got 4 extra 1st round picks for Hay, Thompson, 2 × priority picks.

With this faux rebuild we have given away 3 first and 2 second rounders, plus 1sr round pick Burton and Second round Hill.'
 

almuz

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"Is Hawthorn three years away from where North Melbourne is at now?"

May be the Hawthorn bias I have but surely not even close lol. I mean every team (even North) has some decent players they can prattle on about - Simpkin, LDU, Zuhraah, Powell etc. but I think surely with our crop currently plus two more years at the draft upcoming - by 2024 we wouldn't be that big a rabble.

*Just realised the article was a 2020 hot take lol, point still stands though
 

Brishawk

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"Is Hawthorn three years away from where North Melbourne is at now?"

May be the Hawthorn bias I have but surely not even close lol. I mean every team (even North) has some decent players they can prattle on about - Simpkin, LDU, Zuhraah, Powell etc. but I think surely with our crop currently plus two more years at the draft upcoming - by 2024 we wouldn't be that big a rabble.

*Just realised the article was a 2020 hot take lol, point still stands though
Our list problem is we have very few players aged 24-27 and some of those we do have are injured. In 2-3 years we will have a lot of players in that age group, especially if we perform well enough to attract a free agent or two. It will just take us a couple of hard years to get there.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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If what has been dished up the last 2 weeks continues for another 5-6 weeks the board and footy department have some big decisions to make.
The rebuild will be minimum 5 years, Clarkson will be in his 23rd year by then.
Ask yourself this question, are you as enthusiastic in your own job after 5 years, let alone 25?
We were competitive against Geelong, Melbourne and Richmond for large parts of games this year, with the bottom 4 list we have and a midfield that gets out worked most weeks, and you think we’re another 5 years away from being any good?
Are we getting a draft and trade ban that none of us know about?
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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Competitive in finals.
What everyone seems to forget is that histroy will tell us that in 2005 we had 6 geenrational players.
Crawford, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughead and Lewis.
Then add a bold, revolutionary game plan and the holy grail was achieved far quicket than anticipated.

We would be lucky to have 1, maybe 2 on the list at the moment.
Expecting a quick turn around like we have seen in recent times is a little optimistic.
Am not sure Lewis or Rough were generational. Neither was close to elite.

That aside we don't have the young bench strength of talent on which to build for our next tilt.

Hopefully we go to the draft again for the next few years, get some good NGA/FSs and find some kids that turn into real A graders.
 
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