Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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HODGEYROAD

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In 2005 we also had:
Trent Croad (25)
Bateman (24)
Osborne (23)
Sewell (23)
Williams (22)
Brown (22)
Ladson (21)
Young (19)

To obviously add to Crawford, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughy and Lewis.

In terms of experienced players we also had Lekkas, Everitt, Smith, Jacobs, Barker, Vandenberg and the declining Hay.

Not sure we can say we are in a better position list wise now compared to back then, especially as we were about to add Birchall, and to a lesser extent Ellis and Max Bailey.

Once/if DGB, S Mitchell, Downie, Finn, Morris and Brockman lock down a spots in the team next season we can draw better comparisons.
Thanks for sorting it out Jazzfan and Judd2Sewell you responded with all the things I was going to respond with.
 

PhatHQ

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Edited the post to add:

In total, that's:
1 x top 10 - pick 6
2 x top 20 - pick 6, 13
4 x top 30 - pick 6, 13, 29, 29
5 x top 40 - pick 6, 13, 29, 29, 35
7 x top 50 - pick 6, 13, 29, 29, 35, 45, 47

Only seven top 50 picks in a five year period.
Ahhh... but the experience we dare not trade is invaluable. You can’t put a number on that.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Ahhh... but the experience we dare not trade is invaluable. You can’t put a number on that.
Yep and if you tank you hinder your culture, good thing we beat Gold Coast last round or we'd have 3 wins in 21 instead of 4, that would really have us in a more dire position.
 

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Brishawk

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Every single group of fans has their posters questioning the continued selection of their fringe players. Venture onto any board and you will see the same thing.

Just replace TOB, Howe and Ceglar with guys - K. Langford, Z. Guthrie, Bews, Magden, C. Brown, Aarts, McIntosh, D. McKay, etc etc etc
People on this board wanted to drop omeara after round 2. Tom Mitchell was out up a couple of weeks ago. I’m fine with questioning selection but unhinged howling week after week?

there were nine hawthorn listed players at box hill this week. Reeves got injured, brooksby is a back up only, peeper and Saunders are a mile off it. That leaves four young players who might be good enough to play at AFL this week: brockman, Finn, greaves and Downie. Four. So we are playing almost all the viable youth we have.

Brockman will probably come in this week but none of the other three played at the level they need to get a game. Downie is nursing a sore leg and looked flat. Greaves plays in a position for which we have better players. Finn the most unlucky but right now he is a work in progress. So of the four, Finn and brockman are really the only two that could have played last week. So all the complaining about selection boils down to two players. Two. It is completely disproportionate reaction and is a sign that some of the board simply do not accept where are team and list are at.
 

TylerDurden

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People on this board wanted to drop omeara after round 2. Tom Mitchell was out up a couple of weeks ago. I’m fine with questioning selection but unhinged howling week after week?

there were nine hawthorn listed players at box hill this week. Reeves got injured, brooksby is a back up only, peeper and Saunders are a mile off it. That leaves four young players who might be good enough to play at AFL this week: brockman, Finn, greaves and Downie. Four. So we are playing almost all the viable youth we have.

Brockman will probably come in this week but none of the other three played at the level they need to get a game. Downie is nursing a sore leg and looked flat. Greaves plays in a position for which we have better players. Finn the most unlucky but right now he is a work in progress. So of the four, Finn and brockman are really the only two that could have played last week. So all the complaining about selection boils down to two players. Two. It is completely disproportionate reaction and is a sign that some of the board simply do not accept where are team and list are at.
Sam was complementary of Greaves' game. He'd have to be a chance.
 

Brishawk

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Sam was complementary of Greaves' game. He'd have to be a chance.
He was ok but if you watch his highlights, they aren’t particularly screaming AFL. you can really only bring him in if you are planing to move a defender out of the backline. Could happen if scrim and impey spend more time in the middle, I guess.
 

rogiebear93

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He was ok but if you watch his highlights, they aren’t particularly screaming AFL. you can really only bring him in if you are planing to move a defender out of the backline. Could happen if scrim and impey spend more time in the middle, I guess.
Scrim in the middle, Greaves down back seems like it could happen. Greaves' reliable disposal down back is genuinely what we're crying out for - we've got blokes who offer rebound but dispose of the ball horrifically at times.
 

TylerDurden

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Scrim in the middle, Greaves down back seems like it could happen. Greaves' reliable disposal down back is genuinely what we're crying out for - we've got blokes who offer rebound but dispose of the ball horrifically at times.
I'd be happy to do this, push Scrim to a wing, and Phillips can have a spell. We need to get the wing mix right. It's hurting us at present.
 

Brishawk

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Scrim in the middle, Greaves down back seems like it could happen. Greaves' reliable disposal down back is genuinely what we're crying out for - we've got blokes who offer rebound but dispose of the ball horrifically at times.
I’m mindful O’Brien and Gunston may come back this week. Greaves’ selection probably hinges on what happens with other players.
 

Millsie69

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One thing I have noticed this year is how disorganised our backline seems to be.

Whilst we weren't scoring much last year, we were still able to restrict other teams from scoring heavily against us.

All well and good to have great users of the footy in Scrim, Hardwick and Impey kicking it out of defence, but when the ball comes in quickly from turnovers, we look in disarray and all at sea.

Teams have gone end to end for goals against us plenty of times and there were many times this occurred on the weekend.

We have seriously missed Sicily's leadership and, dare I say, Frawley/Stratton back there this season.

I think when he's fit, we may need to keep Gunston back there, just to ensure we keep our defensive structure.
 

Yardie

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Scrim in the middle, Greaves down back seems like it could happen. Greaves' reliable disposal down back is genuinely what we're crying out for - we've got blokes who offer rebound but dispose of the ball horrifically at times.
Not just reliable but takes on the game from memory. I'd be up for this.
 

Brishawk

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One thing I have noticed this year is how disorganised our backline seems to be.

Whilst we weren't scoring much last year, we were still able to restrict other teams from scoring heavily against us.

All well and good to have great users of the footy in Scrim, Hardwick and Impey kicking it out of defence, but when the ball comes in quickly from turnovers, we look in disarray and all at sea.

Teams have gone end to end for goals against us plenty of times and there were many times this occurred on the weekend.

We have seriously missed Sicily's leadership and, dare I say, Frawley/Stratton back there this season.

I think when he's fit, we may need to keep Gunston back there, just to ensure we keep our defensive structure.
The loss of experience has hurt the backline but we aren’t conceding big scores so normally they are doing the job. The other factors is we are playing more runners in defence to generate offence. This can leave us exposed if they push to far forward and the ball is turned over. The backline needs time to gel but it also would be helped by improved efficiency going forward.
 

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Mercy Seat

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One thing I have noticed this year is how disorganised our backline seems to be.

Whilst we weren't scoring much last year, we were still able to restrict other teams from scoring heavily against us.

All well and good to have great users of the footy in Scrim, Hardwick and Impey kicking it out of defence, but when the ball comes in quickly from turnovers, we look in disarray and all at sea.

Teams have gone end to end for goals against us plenty of times and there were many times this occurred on the weekend.

We have seriously missed Sicily's leadership and, dare I say, Frawley/Stratton back there this season.

I think when he's fit, we may need to keep Gunston back there, just to ensure we keep our defensive structure.
People don’t like it, but there’s a reason Burgoyne walks straight back into the backline when he’s fit.
 

Judd2Sewell

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People on this board wanted to drop omeara after round 2. Tom Mitchell was out up a couple of weeks ago. I’m fine with questioning selection but unhinged howling week after week?

there were nine hawthorn listed players at box hill this week. Reeves got injured, brooksby is a back up only, peeper and Saunders are a mile off it. That leaves four young players who might be good enough to play at AFL this week: brockman, Finn, greaves and Downie. Four. So we are playing almost all the viable youth we have.

Brockman will probably come in this week but none of the other three played at the level they need to get a game. Downie is nursing a sore leg and looked flat. Greaves plays in a position for which we have better players. Finn the most unlucky but right now he is a work in progress. So of the four, Finn and brockman are really the only two that could have played last week. So all the complaining about selection boils down to two players. Two. It is completely disproportionate reaction and is a sign that some of the board simply do not accept where are team and list are at.
In terms of the youngsters - maybe there's only two choices for this week. But there wasn't always only two to potentially select.

The same players senior players in question were being picked last year too, etc.

Greaves
Downie
Bramble
Finn
Morris
Brockman
And even Reeves

They should be given games this year, and hopefully a string of them.

I think I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'd rather see three of those youngsters in the side and get done by 60, over having none of them in the side and get done by 40.

Hopefully as the season goes on we see them assimilate into the seniors.
 

Spanish Sahara

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In terms of the youngsters - maybe there's only two choices for this week. But there wasn't always only two to potentially select.

The same players senior players in question were being picked last year too, etc.

Greaves
Downie
Bramble
Finn
Morris
Brockman
And even Reeves

They should be given games this year, and hopefully a string of them.

I think I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'd rather see three of those youngsters in the side and get done by 60, over having none of them in the side and get done by 40.

Hopefully as the season goes on we see them assimilate into the seniors.
Greaves - we seem to be pretty stacked through the back 6 so unless we push players further up field hes behind too many
Downie - seems to be struggling at Box Hill but hopefully gets a block of games
Bramble - hamstring ruined his short term chances
Finn - different roles, has had a couple of games but hopefully if form warrants gets more second half of the year
Morris -
Brockman - had a block of games, should be back in this week for another.
Reeves - would be keen at end of the year or if BB needs a rest. Ankle injury may have set that back?
 

Brishawk

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In terms of the youngsters - maybe there's only two choices for this week. But there wasn't always only two to potentially select.

The same players senior players in question were being picked last year too, etc.

Greaves
Downie
Bramble
Finn
Morris
Brockman
And even Reeves

They should be given games this year, and hopefully a string of them.

I think I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'd rather see three of those youngsters in the side and get done by 60, over having none of them in the side and get done by 40.

Hopefully as the season goes on we see them assimilate into the seniors.
People can’t stand our current level of performance. Have you tried reading a game day or autopsy threads?

our performances have gotten worse as the season has gone on and broadly speaking this has correlated with less senior players being available and/or in the side. It is causal. I don’t see how having a less competitive side enables our young forwards to develop. How much development has jeka actually gotten the last two weeks getting few touches? What good does it do him or the rest of the team having his opponent take intercept marks all game?
 

darthmann

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People can’t stand our current level of performance. Have you tried reading a game day or autopsy threads?

our performances have gotten worse as the season has gone on and broadly speaking this has correlated with less senior players being available and/or in the side. It is causal. I don’t see how having a less competitive side enables our young forwards to develop. How much development has jeka actually gotten the last two weeks getting few touches? What good does it do him or the rest of the team having his opponent take intercept marks all game?
its mostly to do with optics, people just feel better seeing kids in the side in spite of the reality that it may not be beneficial to their, or the side as a whole's development (the reverse might also be true though, I assume it's a player-by-player basis)

i think that optics and appeasing the supporter base is a legitimate argument during a rebuild. Club just has to get the balance right
 

Brishawk

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its mostly to do with optics, people just feel better seeing kids in the side in spite of the reality that it may not be beneficial to their, or the side as a whole's development (the reverse might also be true though, I assume it's a player-by-player basis)

i think that optics and appeasing the supporter base is a legitimate argument during a rebuild. Club just has to get the balance right
We could hardly have played a less experienced side against the saints and people did not handle it well at all.
 

Mercy Seat

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its mostly to do with optics, people just feel better seeing kids in the side in spite of the reality that it may not be beneficial to their, or the side as a whole's development (the reverse might also be true though, I assume it's a player-by-player basis)

i think that optics and appeasing the supporter base is a legitimate argument during a rebuild. Club just has to get the balance right
People like to have little Easter eggs to look forward to in games when there are kids. If you’re getting flogged each week, it’s one thing you can hang your hat on. The problem is when your kids aren’t Rioli and Franklin, then people want the same kids dropped a week later for being too vanilla. The mix will never be right and when it finally is and you’re getting smashed it’s then the fault of the game plan and then when that’s exhausted our recruiting strategy, etc etc.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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In 2005 we also had:
Trent Croad (25)
Bateman (24)
Osborne (23)
Sewell (23)
Williams (22)
Brown (22)
Ladson (21)
Young (19)

To obviously add to Crawford, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Roughy and Lewis.

In terms of experienced players we also had Lekkas, Everitt, Smith, Jacobs, Barker, Vandenberg and the declining Hay.

Not sure we can say we are in a better position list wise now compared to back then, especially as we were about to add Birchall, and to a lesser extent Ellis and Max Bailey.

Once/if DGB, S Mitchell, Downie, Finn, Morris and Brockman lock down a spots in the team next season we can draw better comparisons.
Half of those players were not exactly flying in 2004-2005 though, were they?

I mean, Sewell was tradebait, Ladson was lucky to be kept around, Young was a spindly rookie, and Osborne was copping the same critiquing that Ollie currently gets for not doing enough or being at all reliable.
 
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