Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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offtherails9

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Nah Hodge looked ******* awesome in a sh*t team in 2005, was probably the best season of his career apart from 2010.

Yeah that's true mate, and Crawf was great all those years too. I'm more talking your 10-22 selected players who lift when you have 10 or so really good players playing good footy.
 

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Pessimistic

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30k Posts 10k Posts HBF's Milk Crate - 70k Posts TheBrownDog
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If the club was serious it would go out and get the best available coach...Clarko

people writing thes stories are just rising to the challenge of making something other seem sensible

add Burgoyne to the assistants next year. The ‘fairy tale’ of the first indigenous coach etc
 
So once again a developing player - of which we have very few - in Josh Morris doesn't play a game of football last week because he was the stupid 23rd player at AFL level. Downie has copped this and looks like Brockman will too this weekend.

The club has to look at this urgently. It is costing us playing hours for our developing players.

Make the 23rd player a list clogger not a young player that needs the game time whether it be VFL or AFL level.

We tend to carry over 2 players 1 as the 23rd and another as the gastro insurance. Time to change it up. Line up the 23rd man as the next in and if the 23rd man is someone who has played the day before so be it. Take the risk for longer term benefit. We are in a rebuild where a win doesn't turn on finals so invest in our developing players in playing minutes.

Shits me to tears. Another 1% where we have dropped the ball.
 

Stratton24

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So once again a developing player - of which we have very few - in Josh Morris doesn't play a game of football last week because he was the stupid 23rd player at AFL level. Downie has copped this and looks like Brockman will too this weekend.

The club has to look at this urgently. It is costing us playing hours for our developing players.

Make the 23rd player a list clogger not a young player that needs the game time whether it be VFL or AFL level.

We tend to carry over 2 players 1 as the 23rd and another as the gastro insurance. Time to change it up. Line up the 23rd man as the next in and if the 23rd man is someone who has played the day before so be it. Take the risk for longer term benefit. We are in a rebuild where a win doesn't turn on finals so invest in our developing players in playing minutes.

Shits me to tears. Another 1% where we have dropped the ball.
You have to have 24 players ready to play at every game so when like last week when Gunston got injured in the warm up your not playing without a sub. For a professional sport you should actually have 1 ruck, 1 tall and 1 small emergency ready to play. Road trips should have all 4 emergency players on the plane.
 
So once again a developing player - of which we have very few - in Josh Morris doesn't play a game of football last week because he was the stupid 23rd player at AFL level. Downie has copped this and looks like Brockman will too this weekend.

The club has to look at this urgently. It is costing us playing hours for our developing players.

Make the 23rd player a list clogger not a young player that needs the game time whether it be VFL or AFL level.

We tend to carry over 2 players 1 as the 23rd and another as the gastro insurance. Time to change it up. Line up the 23rd man as the next in and if the 23rd man is someone who has played the day before so be it. Take the risk for longer term benefit. We are in a rebuild where a win doesn't turn on finals so invest in our developing players in playing minutes.

Shits me to tears. Another 1% where we have dropped the ball.
Both will be able to play on Sunday if they don't play on Saturday.
 

Pessimistic

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30k Posts 10k Posts HBF's Milk Crate - 70k Posts TheBrownDog
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So once again a developing player - of which we have very few - in Josh Morris doesn't play a game of football last week because he was the stupid 23rd player at AFL level. Downie has copped this and looks like Brockman will too this weekend.

The club has to look at this urgently. It is costing us playing hours for our developing players.

Make the 23rd player a list clogger not a young player that needs the game time whether it be VFL or AFL level.

We tend to carry over 2 players 1 as the 23rd and another as the gastro insurance. Time to change it up. Line up the 23rd man as the next in and if the 23rd man is someone who has played the day before so be it. Take the risk for longer term benefit. We are in a rebuild where a win doesn't turn on finals so invest in our developing players in playing minutes.

Shits me to tears. Another 1% where we have dropped the ball.

‘it’s the same for every club?
 
Jan 17, 2008
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So once again a developing player - of which we have very few - in Josh Morris doesn't play a game of football last week because he was the stupid 23rd player at AFL level. Downie has copped this and looks like Brockman will too this weekend.

The club has to look at this urgently. It is costing us playing hours for our developing players.

Make the 23rd player a list clogger not a young player that needs the game time whether it be VFL or AFL level.

We tend to carry over 2 players 1 as the 23rd and another as the gastro insurance. Time to change it up. Line up the 23rd man as the next in and if the 23rd man is someone who has played the day before so be it. Take the risk for longer term benefit. We are in a rebuild where a win doesn't turn on finals so invest in our developing players in playing minutes.

Shits me to tears. Another 1% where we have dropped the ball.
I’m not sure one week off hurts development too much. It is just a necessary element. We didn’t have much less left at box hill as it was.
 

Billyc

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I do think it’s a fair point that we are better off using a player going nowhere as the medical sub rather than a player who would benefit from game time at VFL.
 

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Phillips was a fringe player at Collingwood, especially in his last year there. From an ability and performance standpoint, he's a fringe player here too. The only thing is, Clarko has brought the guy across (like Scully) and will be too stubborn to drop him.
Anyway, I agree you're not going to please everyone but i think this coaching group and administration should be questioned as to why we don't have any of those guns on our list that you mentioned, and why we are currently languishing again in the bottom 4. We used to get accolades for staying competitive but now we're not. We should have pivoted decisively once this was identified, but yet we started last year with Scully, Smith and Henderson as outside runners (and now Phillips) so clearly not the makeup of a side looking to rejuvenate with youth.
Just for context the last time a Hawthorn era finished we had a thirteen year period making the finals three times.
 

Zack

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If the middle of the road is worse than 2003/04 Hawthorn without multiple priority picks ever coming in which they won't be so he doesn't get that favour this time (NM are the worst team I've seen in years forget about GC they had under 21 teams with a sprinkling of older, NM is still Goldy/Ziebell etc running them pensioners)... then I agree we are a middle of the road team. He's a 4 time premiership coach not Peter Schwab who struggled as a coach, how he's been allowed to pick every mate he can find to take positions at Hawthorn is dumbfounding over the past few years but with the clueless Essendon President we had it started, hell that tool picked the worst CEO in AFL history. (Hint name was Garvey I think)

The reason why Clarko was so good when he came in is that he was an outsider after we'd had years of Hawthorn yes men and was allowed to shake up the establishment and got a hell of a lot of priority picks. Yet he's gone about building the Hawthorn issues of the 90's and early 00's by only allowing mates in who agree with him (I believe McCrae might be a possible outlier but I don't know the full relationship given he was at Richmond with Clarko's best mate Hardwick who knows). The saddest thing is even Jeff appears to have fallen in with the flock... as has Dunstall.

If for example we move on from Clarko who they gonna pick Sam Mitchell? Don't necessarily have an argument about that but will anyone at our club look outside to sort the issues? Jeff seems past it, Dunstall's not there. Wrighty has left us with the worst list in the AFL (not the worst team but then again I can out coach Rhys Shaw) and jumped to a team trying to build the worst list and using the media to say they were. Smart move he saw Clarko's issues.

Every Hawthorn power broker seems a yes man to Clarko (I'm not saying he's not the man, I'm just saying he's a man who's always said he like's to be challenged and learn things and he's surrounded himself by people who just say yes). It's a worrying position when we do have the slowest team I've ever seen in AFL history.

The games got faster in 2017 Richmond showed speed kills. Since that year Clarko seems obsessed with proving Hardwick wrong. The problem is he'll never have a team fast enough to stop Hardwick getting 4, he'll have to rely on other more cometitive teams to do it.

We are at the crossroads as a club. Where we go from here who knows. But if we continue to employ yes men, or only previous clubmen or mates even mates of mates we will end up once again in the 90's/early 2000's once again. We need a Dunstall tyoe to once again stand up and say this is the way forward because the current way is not working. Or perhaps we need a Peggy to say we need to help him with not his mates, the other Hardwick help she provided we'll leave to the side and assume he doesn't need it.
 

Gene Simmons

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Quite clearly our golden era was finished in 2016... Let's not forget our top 4 finish in 2016 was grossly exaggerated by about 5 or 6 wins from less than a goal.

In hindsight, since 2016 with the exception of Tom Mitchell - every other recruit has hindered our rebuild. The multiple 1st round draft picks (and Burton) we gave up for guys like O'Meara, Wingard - those 1st round picks would now be in their 3rd or 4th year of development.

I believe we missed massive opportunities to cash in on high currency players like Breust & Gunston for more draft picks/young talent since 2017.. Instead they'll probably be traded end of 2021 for a pack of twisties.

Yes we have a handful of promising young players that we genuinely believe can be part of future success but we are littered with players who definitely will not be..aka list cloggers.
 
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Yes we have a handful of promising young players that we genuinely believe can be part of future success but we are littered with players who definitely will not be..aka list cloggers.

Yes, that's the worry. Way too many "list cloggers" as you put it. It's amazing how quickly we have degenerated from being a destination club to one loitering at the foot of the table with no foreseeable short term future.
 
Sep 13, 2020
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Don't think everyone is a yes man, clarko has been told no and he doesn't like it. Has come to a head and 1 of the 2 will not be there much longer. The no man seems to be infuriating clarko cause can't get his own way anymore. Maybe grain of salt with this post, I don't really know for sure.
Decent cryptic post .......wonder who 'no' man is ????
 

Simon Crawshay

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Quite clearly our golden era was finished in 2016... Let's not forget our top 4 finish in 2016 was grossly exaggerated by about 5 or 6 wins from less than a goal.

In hindsight, since 2016 with the exception of Tom Mitchell - every other recruit has hindered our rebuild. The multiple 1st round draft picks (and Burton) we gave up for guys like O'Meara, Wingard - those 1st round picks would now be in their 3rd or 4th year of development.

I believe we missed massive opportunities to cash in on high currency players like Breust & Gunston for more draft picks/young talent since 2017.. Instead they'll probably be traded end of 2021 for a pack of twisties.

Yes we have a handful of promising young players that we genuinely believe can be part of future success but we are littered with players who definitely will not be..aka list cloggers.
Our list really is in a right mess at the moment.

There are currently players getting regular games in our starting 22 who never mind not making another sides 22, wouldn't even be considered to be part of their 40 man list.

Players who have no real strengths or attributes to differentiate them from a decent VFL player but they are playing regular games in our senior side.

Its not coincidence tht when the Hawks were three peating Box Hill was winning VFL premiership ls nd more recently the Tigers VFL side were dominating as well.

This year has shown the importance of having a strong list from your number 1 to your number 40.
 
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