Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

[Opens positions]

Hawks in ruins, a victim of hubris

Hawthorn is in a terrible state. It has absolutely been on their own terms and in some ways absolutely deserved. Let’s be clear first…

www.theroar.com.au

 

[thehardway]

Stats can often be misleading but we are currently ranked 18th for clearances and 18th for inside 50s. This goes to the heart of our major deficiency - the midfield. This puts massive pressure on our backs and starves our forwards (not to mention the often poor delivery). JOM sits head and shoulders above, TOM gets lots of possessions but has minimal impact, Worpel has struggled since TOMs return and Shiels battles his guts out but is nearing the end. Wingard is in there part time and can impact but soft tissue injuries often interrupt his momentum.

We all had high hopes for this midfield combo but it appears to be just not working. In fairness injuries haven't helped but do we persist or blow it up? For mine we partly blow it up. We should keep JOM, Worpel, Wingard, Shiels to retire and trade TOM. Pick up the best available mid in the draft and trade for a ready to go outside runner with the pick we get for TOM. We desperately need outside spread and run as this is the area where teams regularly smash us. Maybe it's also time to throw the magnets around and trial the likes of Scrimshaw and Jaith in the midfield.

Our rucks are also contributing to the midfield problems. Big Boy is a warrior but looks just about cooked and Ceglar is a back-up at best. This poses a real problem for the club as Big Boy is the captain and is contracted for 2022. I believe Cegs is also contracted for 2022. Hopefully Reeves is ready next year to take over the No.1 ruck mantle.

Food for thought.

 

[Birdofprey]

Hawks in ruins, a victim of hubris

Hawthorn is in a terrible state. It has absolutely been on their own terms and in some ways absolutely deserved. Let’s be clear first…

www.theroar.com.au

When things don't go well and plans don't come to fruition, it becomes very easy for others to tell you precisely how it all went wrong. At the moment any media flog with a platform is having plenty to say about how bad we are, and all the mistakes we made. Thats the game, and we just have to take it. Just remember folks, the same people who telling you how bad some of our recent acquisitions are, will be the same people who complained that it was unfair when we got them. Same folks who complained we finished top 4 in 2018.

I still believe we getting alot out of this year, an unexpected reality check is more painful than temporary delusion, but it is more valuable. A bottom end finish this year not the end of the world.

 

[Glacier]

When things don't go well and plans don't come to fruition, it becomes very easy for others to tell you precisely how it all went wrong. At the moment any media flog with a platform is having plenty to say about how bad we are, and all the mistakes we made. Thats the game, and we just have to take it. Just remember folks, the same people who telling you how bad some of our recent acquisitions are, will be the same people who complained that it was unfair when we got them. Same folks who complained we finished top 4 in 2018.

I still believe we getting alot out of this year, an unexpected reality check is more painful than temporary delusion, but it is more valuable. A bottom end finish this year not the end of the world.

I don’t think the article is far wrong to be honest

 

[Brishawk]

Stats can often be misleading but we are currently ranked 18th for clearances and 18th for inside 50s. This goes to the heart of our major deficiency - the midfield. This puts massive pressure on our backs and starves our forwards (not to mention the often poor delivery). JOM sits head and shoulders above, TOM gets lots of possessions but has minimal impact, Worpel has struggled since TOMs return and Shiels battles his guts out but is nearing the end. Wingard is in there part time and can impact but soft tissue injuries often interrupt his momentum.

We all had high hopes for this midfield combo but it appears to be just not working. In fairness injuries haven't helped but do we persist or blow it up? For mine we partly blow it up. We should keep JOM, Worpel, Wingard, Shiels to retire and trade TOM. Pick up the best available mid in the draft and trade for a ready to go outside runner with the pick we get for TOM. We desperately need outside spread and run as this is the area where teams regularly smash us. Maybe it's also time to throw the magnets around and trial the likes of Scrimshaw and Jaith in the midfield.

Our rucks are also contributing to the midfield problems. Big Boy is a warrior but looks just about cooked and Ceglar is a back-up at best. This poses a real problem for the club as Big Boy is the captain and is contracted for 2022. I believe Cegs is also contracted for 2022. Hopefully Reeves is ready next year to take over the No.1 ruck mantle.

Food for thought.

Clarko spoke about our clearance troubles before the match and how it affected the rest of our game. Mitchell has been playing well as a distributor but it hurts that he is purely a first receiver as opposed to a ball winner because any time omeara is down or being held we get obliterated in the centre.

I think rotating more players through has to happen. Clarko said this in preseason but then in the regular season we play fewer players through there again. Last couple of weeks we have tried a few extras but only once the game has been lost. We need to do it every game and earlier so we can have omear, Worpel and Mitchell fresher in the second half.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I don’t think the article is far wrong to be honest

i mean yeah, it's just saying what literally everyone else has been saying for a year and a half now

but this:

'But they also had a number of players that were made to look better than they were, that were overrated as individuals at the time'

absolute ******* rubbish. Sure, a bunch of them declined quickly, but there's no way in hell you could've known that. Completely disagree a nucleus of Burgoyne, Puopolo, McEvoy, Roughead, Stratton, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Frawley and Shiels were overrated as 'individuals' at the time.

We overrated the pieces around them, yes, we didn't anticipate how quickly some of them would fall off, yes, but those blokes were, and some still are, guns.

 

[Roddy]

I think what we actually are is an 'all or nothing' team. We're either dominating the comp, winning flag after flag, or we're in between those glorious periods, bottoming out and dwelling in the cellar. The 'all' phase will come again, I'm not too concerned.

In fact, these down periods are somewhat of a relief for me, personally, when I can detach from it just a little and focus a little more on the myriad other things I've got going on in life. Don't get me wrong, I still follow it closely, I still watch every minute of every game, I still badly want us to win every week, but at the moment I move on more quickly from each loss.

 

[SA HAWK]

but this:

'But they also had a number of players that were made to look better than they were, that were overrated as individuals at the time'

absolute ******* rubbish. Sure, a bunch of them declined quickly, but there's no way in hell you could've known that. Completely disagree a nucleus of Burgoyne, Puopolo, McEvoy, Roughead, Stratton, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Frawley and Shiels were overrated as 'individuals' at the time.

We overrated the pieces around them, yes, we didn't anticipate how quickly some of them would fall off, yes, but those blokes were, and some still are, guns.

I think Clarkson overrated their ability to take us to another premiership.

Name one of them that was a better player after the 3 peat ended.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think Clarkson overrated their ability to take us to another premiership.

Name one of them that was a better player after the 3 peat ended.

Puopolo and Rioli breust and gunston had great years in 2016 and breust and gunston again in 2018 and gunston again in 2020
Frawley was awesome for us post 2015 same with smith, Stratton was collosus in 2018 mate don't be blinded by what has been

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I think Clarkson overrated their ability to take us to another premiership.

Name one of them that was a better player after the 3 peat ended.

Yes, that's obviously true but that's not what I'm disagreeing with. I'm disagreeing that they were overrated as individuals. EG. that our really good teams made them look better than they actually are. Which is simply not true.

McEvoy, Stratton (2018 was his best year), Gunston, Smith and Breust were all about as good as they were during our 3peat through various periods after it. Frawley and Poppy were great at times too.

 

[SA HAWK]

Puopolo and Rioli breust and gunston had great years in 2016 and breust and gunston again in 2018 and gunston again in 2020
Frawley was awesome for us post 2015 same with smith, Stratton was collosus in 2018 mate don't be blinded by what has been

I do agree with most of that Gunner & Big Boy probably the best of them since 2015.

Stratton was largely terrible apart from 2018 and Bruest has been largely disappointing since too imo.

 

[Billyc]

i mean yeah, it's just saying what literally everyone else has been saying for a year and a half now

but this:

'But they also had a number of players that were made to look better than they were, that were overrated as individuals at the time'

absolute ******* rubbish. Sure, a bunch of them declined quickly, but there's no way in hell you could've known that. Completely disagree a nucleus of Burgoyne, Puopolo, McEvoy, Roughead, Stratton, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Frawley and Shiels were overrated as 'individuals' at the time.

We overrated the pieces around them, yes, we didn't anticipate how quickly some of them would fall off, yes, but those blokes were, and some still are, guns.

I disagree. The club overrated the ability of the guys who played in the shadows of all time greats in Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Gibson, Lake and Lewis.

Many of that next tier have been excellent footballers, but none have gone on to be champions.

The club was a victim of its own hubris. The thought was that the success had more to do with system, the genius of Clarko and the club, which could be replicated with top ups. That has proven to be completely wrong. The success was because of the extraordinary talent on the list, especially the 9 blokes above who should all be Hall of Famers.

 

[On Topic]

Clarko spoke about our clearance troubles before the match and how it affected the rest of our game. Mitchell has been playing well as a distributor but it hurts that he is purely a first receiver as opposed to a ball winner because any time omeara is down or being held we get obliterated in the centre.

I think rotating more players through has to happen. Clarko said this in preseason but then in the regular season we play fewer players through there again. Last couple of weeks we have tried a few extras but only once the game has been lost. We need to do it every game and earlier so we can have omear, Worpel and Mitchell fresher in the second half.

I'm honestly not even sure how much it would help. It feels like an uphill battle in the center from the first bounce. Our mids just never seem to be firing at the same time as well and the people who come in to assist just don't have a massive impact. McEvoy is really struggling in the ruck which doesn't help as well. Mitchell, Worpel, O'Meara, Shiels and Wingard have all shown to be excellent at their craft when at their best. We just aren't seeing them at their best consistently or at the same time. Oddly enough I actually really like the midfield mix but consistency is a real issue there.

Maybe more support for longer periods week in, week out will keep their bodies less beat up and potentially become more consistent in their performances. I like what Cousins brings. Scrimshaw should be in there at least once a quarter. I'd also like us to have Brockman in there as well when he comes in to the seniors again.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I disagree. The club overrated the ability of the guys who played in the shadows of all time greats in Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Gibson, Lake and Lewis.

Many of that next tier have been excellent footballers, but none have gone on to be champions.

The club was a victim of its own hubris. The thought was that the success had more to do with system, the genius of Clarko and the club, which could be replicated with top ups. That has proven to be completely wrong. The success was because of the extraordinary talent on the list, especially the 9 blokes above who should all be Hall of Famers.

you're not arguing with what I'm actually saying though

he's saying those players looked good, as a major reason, because they were in a great team, but as individuals were overrated.

I disagree, they are great players too, who have declined to varying degrees. I am not arguing that the club overrated the list to win a premiership but that is a point that has been touched upon A MILLION TIMES and is irrelevant to what I'm saying

 

[Jazzfan]

Missing out on Lynch in free agency should have been the fork in the road for us really... instead we doubled down and here we are.

 

[H00t]

I'm honestly not even sure how much it would help. It feels like an uphill battle in the center from the first bounce. Our mids just never seem to be firing at the same time as well and the people who come in to assist just don't have a massive impact. McEvoy is really struggling in the ruck which doesn't help as well. Mitchell, Worpel, O'Meara, Shiels and Wingard have all shown to be excellent at their craft when at their best. We just aren't seeing them at their best consistently or at the same time. Oddly enough I actually really like the midfield mix but consistency is a real issue there.

Maybe more support for longer periods week in, week out will keep their bodies less beat up and potentially become more consistent in their performances. I like what Cousins brings. Scrimshaw should be in there at least once a quarter. I'd also like us to have Brockman in there as well when he comes in to the seniors again.

The fact we can’t get our mids all playing well together at this point screams structure to me. Worps has an average year gets a go in the middle and averages 30 and a goal with a ton of clearances then gets shifted out next game and has a quiet one.

Mitch and JOM both never have high clearance numbers it’s one or the other. Other teams spread it around so easily but our set ups around the ball mean it’s only one player that will do the damage rather than multiple. Our ruck woes aren’t helping but it’s not the problem.

 

[Birdofprey]

It was not "hubris" to believe that the system the club had developed has value. The system and culture were indeed a key part of the success - there have been many clubs with amazing talent that have not been successful, and that will always be the case.

The article is littered with unsubstantiated claims about players and the true motivation for decisions. One paragraph states that the Hawks offloaded players "while they still had good football in them". All those players mentioned were regularly nominated as "cooked" by folks on this board, and were clearly at the end of what they could offer us on the field. The suggestion that Mitchell and JOM are more focused on the individual over the team is unsubstantiated nonsense. Its just speculative crap. The line about Scrimshaw not being Glen Archer? Thats another cheap shot that should not be taken seriously. I could go on.

The club has work to do, and made mistakes (all institutions do). We are getting our media whack, and fair enough. But articles like this are just crap.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Isnt the roar a hack website where any random can submit articles. Who even is Cameron Rose

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hawks in ruins, a victim of hubris

Hawthorn is in a terrible state. It has absolutely been on their own terms and in some ways absolutely deserved. Let’s be clear first…

www.theroar.com.au

HODGEYROAD should sue this guy for plagiarism

 

[Yardie]

HODGEYROAD should sue this guy for plagiarism

Wait a second, I haven't seen* HODGEYROAD or Cameron Rose in the same room together.......

*Haven't actually physically seen either

 

[Billyc]

One paragraph states that the Hawks offloaded players "while they still had good football in them". All those players mentioned were regularly nominated as "cooked" by folks on this board, and were clearly at the end of what they could offer us on the field.

Mitchell and Lewis came
1st and 2nd in the B&F and were offloaded for a packet of chips one week later.

 

[Steven Tyler]

The Last 2 off seasons when it became clear we've missed the boat regarding free agents and a flag challenge with this group, I'd have really shopped Gunston and or Bruest around for assets to try get some more young talent in quicker than 2 top 30 picks a season.

We’ve been told multiple times that Breust has no interest in leaving
Possibly Gunston the same

If that’s the case then what else could they have done?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We’ve been told multiple times that Breust has no interest in leaving
Possibly Gunston the same

If that’s the case then what else could they have done?

If you told them you wanted them to leave to help reboot the rebuild, sort of a win/win, we get assets they get to finish careers at a stronger team then I'm tipping they'd be open minded about moving. I don't think we pushed that idea hard enough to them.

 

[Leeda]

We can now afford to play around with players...obvious I know..give ‘em two years to blend a cohesive team
and let every player have a part in that...blend,blend,blend...you know it makes sense

 

[thehardway]

The fact we can’t get our mids all playing well together at this point screams structure to me. Worps has an average year gets a go in the middle and averages 30 and a goal with a ton of clearances then gets shifted out next game and has a quiet one.

Mitch and JOM both never have high clearance numbers it’s one or the other. Other teams spread it around so easily but our set ups around the ball mean it’s only one player that will do the damage rather than multiple. Our ruck woes aren’t helping but it’s not the problem.

Probably goes against the grain for Clarko but we really need to experiment with the structure and players in the midfield. Season is a write-off as far as finals go and time to find out about who can possibly run through there.