Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Strapping Young Lad

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I don’t know where to start.
1. Exposure to AFL level footy
2. Playing with their AFL teammates?
3. Higher standards in preparation and on game day?
4. Confidence? Ability to play without worrying about being delisted?

More to the point, Lewis and Morrison had already proved they were AFL material. Club thought they could get more our of Henderson and Patton. They were wrong, it’s time to move on, and not make the same mistake with Downie, Koschitzke et al.

This whole “young players still have to earn their spots, they don’t get gifted games” is a luxury afforded to teams who are already playing to a winning standard.

As if the club thought Buddy and Roughy would kick more goals in 2005 than Barker and Thompson.
Your idea that players can only develop at senior level, and that games at Box Hill is “missing huge chunks of development” is just plain odd.
 

Hawk_francais

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You just wanted Lewis, Moore, CJ and Morrison to be handed games last year, because “KID”?
No, because they offer something different to the players that lost every week.

Your idea that players can only develop at senior level, and that games at Box Hill is “missing huge chunks of development” is just plain odd.
I’d call the 2019 season missed by Morrison as a pretty big chunk of development.
 

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darthmann

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I don’t know where to start.
1. Exposure to AFL level footy
2. Playing with their AFL teammates?
3. Higher standards in preparation and on game day?
4. Confidence? Ability to play without worrying about being delisted?

More to the point, Lewis and Morrison had already proved they were AFL material. Club thought they could get more our of Henderson and Patton. They were wrong, it’s time to move on, and not make the same mistake with Downie, Koschitzke et al.

This whole “young players still have to earn their spots, they don’t get gifted games” is a luxury afforded to teams who are already playing to a winning standard.

As if the club thought Buddy and Roughy would kick more goals in 2005 than Barker and Thompson.
those are perfectly valid reasons, but like I said its not linear. that may very well apply to some blokes, but not all of them

if the club feels that 'x' player is better off developing in the VFL, I'm going to go with their opinion over most people's on here that have absolutely no development training at all, let alone in sport or an AFL level, or that have no real idea about what these players' personalities are actually like, etc.

I'm not trying to say 'the club knows more than you therefore you have no opinion'. what a terrible argument. However, we literally don't know what each player's strengths and weaknesses are, what the club sees in training, behind closed doors and what they think the best way to make said player the best they can become, so its hard for me to just buy into 'they should play because we are rebuild and they are kid' from people who know and are involved infinitely less than the people making the decisions.

that said, the people making the decisions can be, and have been, wrong, and frequently. its fair and necessary to question them. but I personally have no issue with the way we are going about things this year, and maybe I'm 'settling' but after the sheer success I've been lucky enough to experience in my lifetime with this club i find it hard to be too critical
 

Hawk_francais

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those are perfectly valid reasons, but like I said its not linear. that may very well apply to some blokes, but not all of them

if the club feels that 'x' player is better off developing in the VFL, I'm going to go with their opinion over most people's on here that have absolutely no development training at all, let alone in sport or an AFL level, or that have no real idea about what these players' personalities are actually like, etc.

I'm not trying to say 'the club knows more than you therefore you have no opinion'. what a terrible argument. However, we literally don't know what each player's strengths and weaknesses are, what the club sees in training, behind closed doors and what they think the best way to make said player the best they can become, so its hard for me to just buy into 'they should play because we are rebuild and they are kid' from people who know and are involved infinitely less than the people making the decisions.

that said, the people making the decisions can be, and have been, wrong, and frequently. its fair and necessary to question them. but I personally have no issue with the way we are going about things this year, and maybe I'm 'settling' but after the sheer success I've been lucky enough to experience in my lifetime with this club i find it hard to be too critical
I think what you’re saying here is pretty fair actually. It’s been small things for me that give me the sense that Clarko has a bias towards these players who have got the job done in the past, and he isn’t totally realistic about how many of them will be a part of our next push.
 

Judd2Sewell

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This one goes out to the “we’re not rebuilding unless we play all of the kids all of the time”

Can you please explain how your sentence relates to that article?

Instead one might say, that's what we also want to see out of the other youngsters that a stuck behind the likes of Ceglar, Howe, TOB and even Burgoyne.

I know you realise that when we see CJ, Moore, Lewis, Morrison and Brockman playing well it fuels the want to see the others in the team too?
 

Judd2Sewell

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Players can certainly develop at Box Hill. Box Hill has been extremely beneficial for the development of lots of players over the years.

Last year was an issue though given there was no VFL. It was a heavily compromised year of development for almost all the young players.
 

HairyO

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Well, if they were best 22, then we should’ve seen a few more of them on the weekend.

But seriously, if we see a lineup like that in the next 4 months I’ll be satisfied of course... but there is absolutely no chance of it happening! For a start McEvoy, Breust, Gunston and Shiels will be there. No complaints from me. But yes those players are the ones who need game-time together.

ps. Why has everyone fallen out of love with Kosi? Three weeks of standard young KPF footy and people have lost their appetite. Mitch Lewis’ first few weren’t much chop either! Reckon he’ll be great for us, hopefully Jeka too.
I still think Kosi is in Clarko's good books.

He often gives younger players a few games in the 1sts then a few games in the 2nds. Then they earn their spot.

Id love to see Kosi kick some bags in the VFL thrn replace TOB.

And in a few weeks Gunston back.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Can you please explain how your sentence relates to that article?

Instead one might say, that's what we also want to see out of the other youngsters that a stuck behind the likes of Ceglar, Howe, TOB and even Burgoyne.

I know you realise that when we see CJ, Moore, Lewis, Morrison and Brockman playing well it fuels the want to see the others in the team too?
It relates, because there's a slew of posters who don't think we're rebuilding because we're not playing enough kids. Whereas this article highlights that we're seeing some really important steps by 5 of our younger players in key roles, that will set us up in the future, without the need to bottom out.
 

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Breustiful

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A week is a long time in football. Media somewhat lauded our efforts over the two grand finalists and now they dish up some soothsaying. What's next week? Merge with norf?
 

HODGEYROAD

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It relates, because there's a slew of posters who don't think we're rebuilding because we're not playing enough kids. Whereas this article highlights that we're seeing some really important steps by 5 of our younger players in key roles, that will set us up in the future, without the need to bottom out.
Would you not consider back to back bottom 4 finishes bottoming out ?
 

Brishawk

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Can you please explain how your sentence relates to that article?

Instead one might say, that's what we also want to see out of the other youngsters that a stuck behind the likes of Ceglar, Howe, TOB and even Burgoyne.

I know you realise that when we see CJ, Moore, Lewis, Morrison and Brockman playing well it fuels the want to see the others in the team too?
you and others assume they will develop at least as well playing at AFL level as they will at vfl level. Kosi got three games, showed a little but not much. I personally would prefer him to learn how to be the main deep target at vfl level where he can be the man. He can learn to contest the high ball (no idea at present) and learn how to make multiple leads etc in an environment where he is better placed to succeed and will get more opportunities. I’m ok if he plays seniors of course but I’m also ok if he plays vfl.

Everyone would love to see young players come in and play well. My question is, why do you see playing vfl as some sort of issue for our young players?
 

Judd2Sewell

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It relates, because there's a slew of posters who don't think we're rebuilding because we're not playing enough kids. Whereas this article highlights that we're seeing some really important steps by 5 of our younger players in key roles, that will set us up in the future, without the need to bottom out.
Yeah anyone saying we aren't rebuilding is way off.

I thought (and still think) the main issue we all generally argue over is the pace of the rebuild.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Yeah anyone saying we aren't rebuilding is way off.

I thought (and still think) the main issue we all generally argue over is the pace of the rebuild.
I think it is too.

Some want more kids given more time or exposure. Some think kids need to be given small exposure then sent back to Box Hill to work on it. Some think you just play kids and see if they swim.

Articles like the one today from the HFC certainly help sell the story that the club do have an idea of what they're doing with these particular players, but they need more of these insights to show just what they're discussing behind closed doors.
 

Mercy Seat

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Yep, you could see what he was trying to do but in hindsight it was a bad call by Clarko to chase another flag with the left over premiership players and some recruits from other clubs that haven’t really panned out..

Right now we’ve been forced into the bottom out phase for at least this year and next..

We need to get as much draft capital as possible in this period - it can change quickly if we draft well but we’re at least year or two behind other clubs that have already gone down that route and there’s gonna be some short term pain until we make it up...
Had Cyril not retired, Rough not got cancer and we’d picked up 2-3 of the free agents the club had put years into and all but believed they were coming, it would have been a completely different story. Shoulda coulda of course, but Geelong were on a similar course and just happened to land Danger and a few others that had them playing in a GF last year. It didn’t work out for us, but given what we believed at the time, we would have been negligent not to have a swing.
 

SA HAWK

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Finished 4th after H&A in 2018 and while it all went pear-shaped in September, it would still suggest they weren’t *that* far off the pace.
We were belted in both finals which suggested we were not that close either.

Finishing top 4 that year was the worst thing that could have happened gave Clarko a false reading of where we were at imo.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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We were belted in both finals which suggested we were not that close either.

Finishing top 4 that year was the worst thing that could have happened gave Clarko a false reading of where we were at imo.
We were not belted in both finals though.


The games were both won with bursts, and in particular the Dees final, we had Jaeger out and Tom pop an AC joint in the first 5 minutes, and yet we were still only 2 goals down halfway through the last (after kicking 6 pts straight in the 3rd), before they broke us late.
 
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TylerDurden

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We were not belted in both finals though.

In the Tigers game they jumped us in the first kickong 4 goals to our 1 and we lost the remaining 3 quarters by a total of 8 pts.

The games were both won with bursts, and in particular the Dees final, we had Jaeger out and Tom pop an AC joint in the first 5 minutes, and yet we were still only 2 goals down halfway through the last (after kicking 6 pts straight in the 3rd), before they broke us late.
Gunston kicked 3.5 that night.
 

Judd2Sewell

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you and others assume they will develop at least as well playing at AFL level as they will at vfl level. Kosi got three games, showed a little but not much. I personally would prefer him to learn how to be the main deep target at vfl level where he can be the man. He can learn to contest the high ball (no idea at present) and learn how to make multiple leads etc in an environment where he is better placed to succeed and will get more opportunities. I’m ok if he plays seniors of course but I’m also ok if he plays vfl.

Everyone would love to see young players come in and play well. My question is, why do you see playing vfl as some sort of issue for our young players?
No I don't think playing in the VFL is an issue for them.

The issue for me last year was that there was no VFL at all - so where better for guys like Finn, Greaves, CJ, etc to develop than in the seniors? Especially when we kept playing, and losing, with the same average players that we know aren't good enough. It was a year of compromised development.

This season is different. We are giving CJ, Moore, Morrison and Brockman consistent games and they have repaid the faith. The first three in particular have surely exceeded everyone's expectations so far. And whilst it had bewilderingly taken a few weeks, Lewis and Scrimshaw were brought back into the team, which is what we want to see.

My issue is that I am just damn sick of watching TOB and Ceglar continuously get picked unreservedly. They continuously underperform and they are keeping younger players out.

I don't care if there isn't a like-for-like replacement for them. The onus would be on Clarko to tweak things and work it out. If everyone can see that they are both just plainly not up to it, and that playing Ceglar in particular forces us to be so slow, then why can't Clarko? We need skill and pace. We have that waiting in the reserves. Replacing them for Kosi/Jeka and any of the others is not going to hurt our results

To a lesser extent I'm not particularly interested in watching Howe play either, as admirable as he's been so far, he's just not going to be part of the future.

Burgoyne is another matter. I'd rather see Greaves play than him, though we know Clarko is going pick him so he gets to 400 regardless of his form. That doesn't help the development of a potentially good young player in Greaves though, and he could end up forcing someone like him to look elsewhere come the end of the season.
 

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