Clarkson's Cluster

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#27
This I can't explain that, as much as I'd like to be able to.
What I will say however is that the plan employed currently reminds me of the last 2 Schwab years. We're clueless in how to play with one another and nobody seems to know what each other is doing, some call this structure. We move the ball slowly and skills are mostly horrible. I think a lot of it is confidence (and personnel) but at least part of it seems to be tactical.
As for Clarkson and the club looking 2 years down the track for another tilt at a final, I can't accept that and I doubt the President would either. We didn't draft Burgoyne to fill a need in 2 years time, because he'll basically be on his last legs by then.
I'm of the belief that if things don't dramatically improve in the next few months there will be big pressure on the coach and all of our football department. If that happens we will know for certain if this is part of a grand plan by the actions of the President and CEO. To me it looks like Clarkson appears lost and he too seems devoid of confidence. I hope I am wrong.
Correct, the club very much had top 4 as their goal this year ,lets not give them a cop out and suggest otherwise, the drafting of ready made players in burgoyne, gibson,hooper and skipper is ample proof of where the club thought they were out, things have gone pear shape for 2 major reasons. 1 Poor preparation from an unorthadox fitness program leading to major injuries for the second year in a row, leagues worst practice there, 2 clarksons gameplan is now redundant , 2 years ago the average tackle count was around 40-50 per game now it is 70+ and this is breaking us down , our players are under extreme pressure and the ball isnt going forward with precision like 2008, as well clarko wants us to zone so our players are not in position to apply tackling pressure to the opposition, we are last on the tackling ladder, football is now a pressure game and we simply dont apply enough of it yet our coach wont admit this so we will stick to our failing ways, the Tigers will come out on sunday with the aim of laying 100 tackles and if they achieve this then they will be in the match for a long time, if they happen to win maybe Clarko will be forced to concede his thinking has had its used by date.
 

hardway

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#28
Off topic a little, But I am really keen on Seeing what the swans do the next 3 weeks. They are more than likely not going to have a good ruckman available to play. They have 2 tough games and one against us. Lets see if they can over come the issue our coaching staff have been crying about.
 

QuietB

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#29
Just to pick you up on something - the zone/cluster is a defensive tactic, which is completely different to our attacking tactics, which at this stage don't seem to be working.
This is the key issue at the moment. Defensively the game plan is not being delivered great at the moment but is not a disaster. Offensively the Jawks are nothing short of deplorable.

The blues beat the Saints last night by running, running and then running a little more and then moving the BALL FORWARD. They did the same to Geelong. Fremantle are winning by running and moving the ball forward and having players forward to actually kick it to.

Hawks need to take a deep breath, get their hands on the pill and start taking the game on again. Move the thing forward and do it fast.

Nothing unrattles an opposition defence more than quick forward ball movement. Nothing allows an opposition defence to settle easier than slow, sideways, stagnant, crab like football.

Right now the Hawks are crabs!
 
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#30
This is the key issue at the moment. Defensively the game plan is not being delivered great at the moment but is not a disaster. Offensively the Jawks are nothing short of deplorable.

The blues beat the Saints last night by running, running and then running a little more and then moving the BALL FORWARD. They did the same to Geelong. Fremantle are winning by running and moving the ball forward and having players forward to actually kick it to.

Hawks need to take a deep breath, get their hands on the pill and start taking the game on again. Move the thing forward and do it fast.

Nothing unrattles an opposition defence more than quick forward ball movement. Nothing allows an opposition defence to settle easier than slow, sideways, stagnant, crab like football.

Right now the Hawks are crabs!
Spot on QuietB, this is the thinking that should be taking place with our caoches, with franklin, Roughead and rioli up farward you would think its a no brainer, but clarko is set in his ways and he will die as a coach and take the team down with him before he concedes his way is wrong, resign your job QuietB and get into coaching because I like your thing mate.
 

SJT76

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#31
Whatever our game plan is at the moment, I reckon that there are several players whose form is directly related to it.
Ie they dont suit it, or they havent adapted to it.

eg Ellis, Os, Laddo, Chang, Birch

This in turn effects our fwds because they arent getting effective delivery, and furthermore there are less crumbing opportunities.
I find the list of names you've selected interesting. All (meant to) have good footskills and provide a lot of our run. Not sure it means anything, but I just found it curious.

What I wouldn't give to see that lot perform as per the GF!
 
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#32
its not easy to win a flag...everything has to go right...

happened in 08....hasnt happened since....

its a tough comp....

bagging the coach after he delivered us a flag less than 2 years ago is poor form i say
 

saaam

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#33
its not easy to win a flag...everything has to go right...

happened in 08....hasnt happened since....

its a tough comp....

bagging the coach after he delivered us a flag less than 2 years ago is poor form i say
We have to look forward. The facts are we're looking like we're going to miss the finals 2 years running after winning a GF. Now is the time to look forward and for the Pres, CEO and the Board to re-assess where we are going and whether Clarkson has it in him to lead us deep into September in 2011 and 2012. I'm confident our leadership team will come up with the right answer.
Just because Clarkson lead us to a premiership in 2008 doesn't mean anything in 2010, 11 or 12. I believe we have the nucleus of a dual premiership team and it would be an underachievement of massive proportions to not get at least deep into September at least a couple more times. What Clarkson does in the last 2/3rds of this season will likely determine his future beyond 2010.
 

Easy Slips Catch

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#34
........ 1 Poor preparation from an unorthadox fitness program leading to major injuries for the second year in a row, leagues worst practice there, 2 clarksons gameplan is now redundant , 2 years ago the average tackle count was around 40-50 per game now it is 70+ and this is breaking us down , our players are under extreme pressure and the ball isnt going forward with precision like 2008.........
Interesting observations there RH. Collingwood's tackling destroyed us. We had no idea how to combat it.

I think our gameplan is flawed and needs to be rebuilt. Injuries are not helping but we have enough of our good players on the paddock to be performing better.
 

Maybloomer

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#35
Interesting observation.

Five-2-fifty is the official club vision from 2008-2012.

If we saluted in 2012 we'd be on track.
To be honest, 2012 is the last thing on my mind when I forego all other commitments to be in front of the TV on game day or make the 600km return trip to the 'G to watch them play. I'm not thinking of 2012, 2011 or even September 2010. Football to me is watching Cyril sizzle in Round x or Buddy kicking 7 in Round y, singing the club song after a hard fought win or having THAT feeling inside when you head out the turnstiles.

"Five-2-fifty" might sound great in the boardroom but it just doesn't cut it around the coffee pot on Monday morning when you're trying to justify a 7 goal loss to your arch enemies.

If a week is a long time in football, 5 years is a lifetime. One good season out of 5 might get you a premiership but do we want to feel like we did last Saturday 88 more times? I know I don't . I'd rather be competitive each and every game with a mix of players AND A GAME PLAN that suits today. I realise the football gods are forcing our hand in this but the "fifty" part of the HFC charter deserve current competitiveness ahead of potential long term success. The latter will follow. The only way this can happen is to develop a game plan that suits our players, not vice-versa.

I think terms like "premiership clock or window" are overrated. Injuries, the AFL, the lottery of the draft, the AFL, rule changes, lopsides draws and the AFL can all put the kybosch on the notion that "well, we've bottom dwelled for x years, now let's reap the rewards - see HFC circa 2009-2010.

Anyway, lets take both eyes off 2012 or 2011 and throw all our support behind the Mighty Hawks and the Ladsons and the Ellis's this weekend and just enjoy what is about footy we truly love - the next game.
Abuse an ump, taunt a Tiger supporter and above all - take it one week at a time © ®
 

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#37
Injuries and Clarko's Cluster aside, the other day one of the leading papers published a statistical analysis of Hawthorn in 2008 compared against the 2010 Hawthorn side.
The 'unsociable Hawks' led the way in 2008 in every department from tackling through to effective disposals and long kicks into the forward 50. In 2010 we are near the bottom on all accounts.
I agree that injuries have played a big part in 2009 and 2010, however injuries have no bearing whatsoever on effort, and there is no way that the 22 picked week in and week out have put in a 100% effort.

I'd be happy losing if every player gave it their all and we were ultimately beaten by a better opposition. However this has not been the case.
 

m0zza

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#38
The thing that regularly gets forgotten about 2008 was the difference between the good games and the bad games.

The 2008 team only lost five games, but some of the losses were incredibly bad.

Won twenty, some were unbelievably good.
 

essaynode

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#39
I've just been reading Footballistics by James Coventry, and found the following paragraph in Chapter 5.

"One of the most significant catalysts for this league-wide tactical improvement was Hawthorn’s implementation of ‘Clarko’s Cluster’ in 2008. After making some preseason trips to the English soccer club Bolton, David Rath developed a framework for coding games that showed where the Hawks were winning possession on the field and how far they were moving the ball from those positions. ‘It was a visual chart and it showed that we were getting a lot of the ball in our defensive 50,’ said Rath. ‘If you looked at footy training at an AFL club back then, a lot of it would be practising winning the ball back in the defensive 50 and marching it the whole length of the ground. It was a reasonable thing to do because in those days you got through 50 per cent of the time.’ To make it harder for teams to transition the ball from their backline, Alastair Clarkson and Rath developed the Hawks’ famous rolling zone. It combined the soccer tactics they had seen at Bolton with a high-pressing strategy that had been implemented by Neil Craig at the Adelaide Crows. ‘When we started pressing we found we could stop teams from rebounding so easily. These days if you get through 25 per cent of the time it’s a pretty good result, so the ability to get from end to end has been halved.’"

What I found interesting was the role that David Rath played in developing the strategy and also the innovation shown by Neil Craig in trying to implement elements of the high press at Adelaide.

Well worth going out and buying or borrowing the book if you're interested in the statistics and thinking that is underpinning some of the game styles of the modern era. It was published in 2018 so is very up to date.
 

threesixpio

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#40
Hi Gang

I have stayed out of the disscussions of late about how bad we are performing. (to a degree I had a crack at Laddo). But here is my take;

  • Clarko got the best out of the team in 2008 - result FLAG
  • Some of the lynchpins were not stars but played an important part in that last day in September
  • Experience (Crawford, Dew, Cambell etc) put the whole side into equilibrium)
  • Young players were blooded to overtake others but they too need time.
OK so what am I saying. I reckon that Clarko has more or less a communist 5 year plan. eg a flag every 5 years or so.

IS THAT SO BAD, I will take it every time - I know people want dynasties but I reckon wit GFC an GWS that is going to be an impossiblity in the near to longterm.

Clarko delivered our first flag in 17 years - in a short space of time - he will engineer our next, make no mistake!
Ulittledipper gets a beer
 
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