Classic Wrestling Thread (60s 70s 80s 90s 00s)

[NitroFan]

michaels was a complete piece of s**t at that point. as much as i generally find hart overrated and agree that he took it all just a little too seriously, if i was in his position i wouldnt have been doing the cokehead prima donna any favours either.

 

[Cleavy]

Michaels had been refusing to do jobs to various people for months before Montreal ever happened. I'm not 100% up on the rumour file but wasn't Vader supposed to win a world title off him at one point, and Michaels flat out refused not only to drop the strap, but even to work with him at all? Pretty much killed Vader's career.

Refused to lose to Hart, and came up with the "lost smile"/knee injury to get out of dropping the belt.

Even just the screwjob. He was leaving the company. Rule number one in wrestling promotions, if you're the champ and you're leaving, you drop the title on your way out. End of story. Hart should be thankful he wasn't in an earlier era, otherwise the promoter would have 'accidentally' put in a Lou Thesz or Danny Hodge against him and said "you know how you said you're not doing a job, I'm about to humiliate you if you don't."

he wasn't leaving that night. just that Vince thought it was "best for business" for the title switch on that night.

 

[cmndstab]

Vince's argument has long been that WCW could announce Hart's signing at any time, and if he was holding the belt when it happened, they were dead in the water. Hence his desire to get the belt off Hart as quickly as possible.

The thing is, Hart offered to drop the belt to someone other than Michaels. It's not Hart's call and I can see why Vince held fast against it, but if he's going to use the "it was necessary" card to defend screwing Bret, you have to ask why he didn't consider another option to get the belt off him.

 

[The Casey Cat]

The thing is, Hart offered to drop the belt to someone other than Michaels. It's not Hart's call and I can see why Vince held fast against it, but if he's going to use the "it was necessary" card to defend screwing Bret, you have to ask why he didn't consider another option to get the belt off him.

Yeah was pretty unnecessary for him to lose to Michaels. I hate hearing about wrestlers refusing to do this or that or having creative control but can understand Hart's position on this given what an utterly insufferable, weaselly little #### Michaels had been to pretty much the whole locker room. With what was going on dropping it to Taker after interference from DX or Kane would have worked just fine.

 

[cmndstab]

From memory he suggested Austin or Foley. Austin probably would have been a mistake, given they'd been building Austin up for a year at that stage and he deserved to win it in a big moment, but Foley or Taker as you suggest would have worked out alright.

 

[Cleavy]

he even suggested Ken Shamrock

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

That famous line by Triple H

"* him,he doesn't want to do business let's do business for him" lol and then Bret's ex-wife ripping shreds off Triple H back stage.

Classic.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Watched this last night

St.Valentines Day Massacre - Big Show makes his WWE debut

 

[cmndstab]

I've been slowly going over everything from 97 forward over the last few years. I'm almost finished the whole Invasion storyline at the moment.

I have to say, considering how poorly the whole Invasion angle is remembered, it's actually really entertaining. Yeah, it makes WCW look weak as hell, but it's great TV. Austin is unbelievably entertaining as a heel, starting off as a complete bully heel, turning into a psychopath who is obsessed with Vince, becoming a whiny creep, then a cult leader, and finally a total lunatic. Also that month in the middle where he and Kurt are competing for Vince's affections is absolutely brilliant.

The Alliance itself doesn't paint WCW in a good light, since its biggest stars are always WWE people, but as an entity it has it's fair share of winning moments. They spend more time with the belts than without it, at least until the very end, and WWE really only gets fleeting victories.

There are so many great characters in the Alliance as well. Watching Helms morph into the Hurricane is great, as is the long-suffering Storm as his reluctant partner. Kanyon is hilarious for the first couple of months as the "Alliance MVP" before they phase him out. RVD gets over quicker than anyone I've ever seen. Booker T is entertaining as *, even though they do make him appear weak. Heyman, Shane and Stephanie do a great job as the heel leaders. And even though they were in WWE beforehand so it doesn't really "count", they do a great job of putting over the likes of Rhyno, Dudleys, Test etc as legitimate big names, at least in the short term. WWF wrestlers start to flock over to the Alliance with Christian, Test, Regal, Justin Credible, Molly Holly, Ivory and of course Austin all crossing the fence with only Torrie Wilson going the other way.

There are also just plain awesome moments, like Foley's return as commissioner, Angle winning the title as a face, and the so-bad-it's-good Wind Beneath Our Ring/Angle on a milk truck segment.

Unfortunately everyone just remembers that very few big WCW names were there, and the bizarre treatment of DDP, Booker T, Tazz and to a lesser extent Raven, Dreamer, Hugh Morrus, and Staziak, who all got squashed early on and never recovered. Even then, though, DDP's reemergence as a crooked life trainer is hilarious, Tazz's segments where Austin gets pissed off at him are great TV, and Booker T is entertaining every single time he's on the screen.


As a means to showcase the newly-purchased WCW, it was obviously a flop, but in terms of entertaining TV, it's actually a great period of wrestling And that's before you even get to some of the great things in the WWE camp, like Edge and Christian having a feud which is (initially) entertaining, a brilliant Y2J vs Rock feud, Angle temporarily taking the mantle as #1 face, and the APA become de facto locker room leaders.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I agree wrestling was way more entertaining back then,there was a s**t load of wow/omg moments compared to today's stuff.

 

[Partridge]

To be fair, those same promoters from earlier companies wouldn't have put up with Shawn Michaels' bullshit either and then there wouldn't have been any problem (at least, if we're to take Hart at his word).

Michaels had been refusing to do jobs to various people for months before Montreal ever happened. I'm not 100% up on the rumour file but wasn't Vader supposed to win a world title off him at one point, and Michaels flat out refused not only to drop the strap, but even to work with him at all? Pretty much killed Vader's career.

Agree completely that the tolerance of Michaels (and not just him) by Vince was then, and remains today, totally inexplicable. Vince is the boss; it's up to him to pull these guys into line. Imagine if Michaels had tried any of that s**t out with Bill Watts? His head would have been through the door in about 3 seconds.

I think one of the real issues was that Hart had "creative control" written into his contract as a way to make sure he wouldn't get screwed when he left. It's clear Vince assumed creative control meant that Hart could complain if they tried to turn him into the next Gobbledygooker, whereas Hart thought it meant he could literally refuse to lose the belt and just leave it vacant as he left. Neither were ever going to happen.

It was. Yet another "what were you thinking Vince?" moment.

 

[NitroFan]

Vince was pinning all his hopes on Michaels. the company had its back against the wall in a big way and vince was convinced michaels was the answer to all his problems, so he could get away with whatever he wanted. listen to vinces commentary of him in 96 and try not to throw up.

And even though they were in WWE beforehand so it doesn't really "count", they do a great job of putting over the likes of Rhyno...

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Haha can't believe that was Rhyno

 

[The Casey Cat]

Haha can't believe that was Rhyno

Can't believe a short guy can have such a massively wide frame.

 

[Cleavy]

00s is classic wrestling now? I feel old.

 

[cmndstab]

Watched every WrestleMania and Royal Rumble from 1985-90. It's been a slog. Killed any interest I may have had in watching other WWF shows from the time. People who love 80s WWF must've been kids when they saw it.

WWF in that period was much more about celebrity and pageantry than anything else.

The problem with that kind of thing is that it has a shelf life of around 5 minutes. I agree, it's tough to watch nowadays.

 

[Cleavy]

WWF in that period was much more about celebrity and pageantry than anything else.

The problem with that kind of thing is that it has a shelf life of around 5 minutes. I agree, it's tough to watch nowadays.

I'd rather watch it than the current product, mainly due to the nostalgia (even the squash matches)

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I'd rather watch it than the current product, mainly due to the nostalgia (even the squash matches)

I miss the gritty, grungy old arenas. Madison Square Garden was so different to the Boston Garden which was different again to Maple Leaf Garden and so on. I miss the police escort with crowds going bananas over both the heel and face entering the ring. I miss the fact nearly every wrestler had a clear point of difference. I miss the managers. I miss the promos. Sure, the in-ring work can look pretty primitive compared to some of the stuff you see today but the psychology was so much better. Even with some of the more out there gimmicks, you could still buy into the concept that it was meant to be combative contest you were witnessing.

 

[Lynchy04]

I'd rather watch it than the current product, mainly due to the nostalgia (even the squash matches)

Nothing will beat it , the matches are ordinary by today’s standards but the emotion they could get from the crowd was so much better.

Over the top characters and then you had the colorful ones like Savage , Warrior , Hart foundation with their kits that stood out. Mr Perfect and the towel.

The in ring wrestling these days is better but the story telling and emotion across the board of any company is really lacking.

Most of the wrestlers now have that generic indie guy feel like Cesaro Bryan Omega Seth KO as some examples that are great in the ring but what separates them from each other?

It’s why I’ve enjoyed the Nigerian gimmick from Apollo , having Azeez with him and I’ve enjoyed some of AEWs stables they’ve put together like a throwback to what it used to be.

 

[Cleavy]

I miss the gritty, grungy old arenas. Madison Square Garden was so different to the Boston Garden which was different again to Maple Leaf Garden and so on. I miss the police escort with crowds going bananas over both the heel and face entering the ring. I miss the fact nearly every wrestler had a clear point of difference. I miss the managers. I miss the promos. Sure, the in-ring work can look pretty primitive compared to some of the stuff you see today but the psychology was so much better. Even with some of the more out there gimmicks, you could still buy into the concept that it was meant to be combative contest you were witnessing.

yes, the connection on an emotional level was there (not necessarily because you believed it was real, but you wanted "your guy" to overcome the odds and win). these days it's harder to do (not impossible though).

 

[Rusty Brookes]

yes, the connection on an emotional level was there (not necessarily because you believed it was real, but you wanted "your guy" to overcome the odds and win). these days it's harder to do (not impossible though).

Absolutely. Seeing the CM Punk reaction the other day was great and I hope AEW are smart enough to use that reaction to:

a) realise that the emotional connection is key to getting guys over
b) to use CM Punk and Danielson when he comes over to help get other guys over
c) there is a market for a more sports based approach (which was the rhetoric when AEW was first launched)

And I'm an unabashed fan of WALTER - exactly how I reckon modern pro-wrestling should be presented.

 

[Cleavy]

the nostalgia!

 

[Cleavy]

Jake 'the Snake' Roberts vs Konnan from AAA Triplemania in 1994 (Hair vs Hair)

 

[Cleavy]

RIP Corporal Kirschner

 

[NSWCROW]

RIP Corporal Kirschner

Was a big mark for him, wasn't around long though.
Saw him beat Nikolai Volkoff in Adelaide as a kid