Strategy Cleaning Out Our No-Hopers

finbarr

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Keith Thomas is the Chief Executive. He answers to the board and works to their wishes as best he can. He didn't re-sign Hinkley. That's on David Koch and the board. KT's hands are relatively tied. He can offer suggestions as forcefully as he likes, but he's the guy who's there to implement the board's strategy.

I still like KT. Koch and his massive ego wouldn't be an easy beast to manage and influence. Is he "the good German's who sat back and watched the trains roll by"? Perhaps. But i'm not sure what he alone can do.
 

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AFC AFeederClub

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a good coach knows how to structure their team to be in every game no matter how difficult the opposition, he implements that structure and he drills it into the players untill it is absolute second nature to them, their natural fair and skill is seen through that structure not around it or separate from it, they are the teams that win premierships. Ken in all the time he has coached has never been able to drill it into the team and that is why we are a pretty easy team to play against particularly when that team is a better quality, Sure you will get a win against a good team every now and again but you wont generate that consistancy where the player believes in the process and follows it through to the very end, this is highlighted by how many consecutive games have we won over the past 3 or 4 years. The reason why Ken cant coach is because he doesnt have the faith in himself to implement a structure that he can stick by, nor does he have the guts to force it onto the playing group and make them abide by it.
 

AFC AFeederClub

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Keith Thomas is the Chief Executive. He answers to the board and works to their wishes as best he can. He didn't re-sign Hinkley. That's on David Koch and the board. KT's hands are relatively tied. He can offer suggestions as forcefully as he likes, but he's the guy who's there to implement the board's strategy.

I still like KT. Koch and his massive ego wouldn't be an easy beast to manage and influence. Is he "the good German's who sat back and watched the trains roll by"? Perhaps. But i'm not sure what he alone can do.
wait a minute, im pretty sure it was KT who was pushing hard for Hinkley's contract extension, when the board heard GC might want him they wet their pants and KT along with them, he actively tried to get Ken into a quick sign of his contract. I never understood why a board if they knew their coach was scheming behind their back would take steps to facilitate that scheme instead of seeing it as a character flaw which is was and send Hinkley packing, i know i would certainly be asking questions if i had found these things out.
 

finbarr

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wait a minute, im pretty sure it was KT who was pushing hard for Hinkley's contract extension, when the board heard GC might want him they wet their pants and KT along with them, he actively tried to get Ken into a quick sign of his contract. I never understood why a board if they knew their coach was scheming behind their back would take steps to facilitate that scheme instead of seeing it as a character flaw which is was and send Hinkley packing, i know i would certainly be asking questions if i had found these things out.
That's not how I remember it. It was Koch.
 

AFC AFeederClub

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I think if KT and Koch took a hard line with Ken and got us a good new coach then that would go some way to them redeeming themselves with the supporters. Fix the coaching situation first.
well we have changed everything else and the results are still the same, that leaves only 1 option in my opinion. Ken has been deflecting responsibility for years, firstly it was no magpies SANFL team, then it was a ruckman, then it was a forward, then it was the assistants, then it was the bad apple players and this year it will be something else
 

finbarr

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yes it was Koch but KT was wetting himself just as much, i remember him going on radio saying they had all just been around to Kens house that night organising a contract extension. Ken threw out the bait and they took it
KT was doing what every CEO in the league would have been doing, going on radio/TV to sell the board's decision to the public. That doesn't necessarily mean he agreed with it.
 

AFC AFeederClub

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I would like to see how we structure up without Westy for a few games.
this is one of the problems, no coach worth their salt would let a guy just run around and do what he likes and hope for the best, it works sometimes but usually against lesser teams and not against the good ones. If i was coaching Westy id would have had him at Centre Half Back 2 years ago, much like West Coast play McGovern, sit him behind the ball and if the oppo want to kick it long down the line Westy is waiting for it.
 

Rexie J

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Keith Thomas is the Chief Executive. He answers to the board and works to their wishes as best he can. He didn't re-sign Hinkley. That's on David Koch and the board. KT's hands are relatively tied. He can offer suggestions as forcefully as he likes, but he's the guy who's there to implement the board's strategy.

I still like KT. Koch and his massive ego wouldn't be an easy beast to manage and influence. Is he "the good German's who sat back and watched the trains roll by"? Perhaps. But i'm not sure what he alone can do.
wait a minute, im pretty sure it was KT who was pushing hard for Hinkley's contract extension, when the board heard GC might want him they wet their pants and KT along with them, he actively tried to get Ken into a quick sign of his contract. I never understood why a board if they knew their coach was scheming behind their back would take steps to facilitate that scheme instead of seeing it as a character flaw which is was and send Hinkley packing, i know i would certainly be asking questions if i had found these things out.

Totally agree. KT publicly stated he wrote to the Suns CEO who he claimed was a good friend and told him to back off.
 

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AFC AFeederClub

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KT was doing what every CEO in the league would have been doing, going on radio/TV to sell the board's decision to the public. That doesn't necessarily mean he agreed with it.
he absolutely agreed with it, and pushed the board to go with it, mainly because he didnt have any other options at the time but largely because it would have been pride detroying for him and his head was to big, he thought if Hinkley left it would have been the end of his job as he had backed that horse and he was leaving. And the truth is it would have been and it should have been, never underestimate the protection of ones self in decision making
 

finbarr

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Totally agree. KT publicly stated he wrote to the Suns CEO who he claimed was a good friend and told him to back off.
Sure, but whatever you might think of Hinkley, the CEO telling another club to "back off" from poaching a contracted coach isn't really that strange a thing for him to do.
 

Rexie J

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KT was right into it 100% and unfortunately there is too much much of this 'gee gosh shucks xyz is a great bloke', so shouldn't be held accountable is a significant part of why Port has become so mediocre.
 

AFC AFeederClub

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Sure, but whatever you might think of Hinkley, the CEO telling another club to "back off" from poaching a contracted coach isn't really that strange a thing for him to do.
your missing the point, Ken was entertaining the prospect of leaving because he was gonna be a winner which ever way, he was open to leaving and he made it known to GC because 2 things were gonna happen, Port were gonna hold off contract talks which would have given him the opening to say 'Port really didnt want me so i accept the GC offer' or Port were gonna wet their pants and sign him up again which was his preferred option. Anyone & everyone on the board should have seen through this scheme and not got into a game of playing one against the other, and more importantly the board should of ripped up his contract right on the spot for even trying to work that angle, being the head coach.
 

finbarr

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your missing the point, Ken was entertaining the prospect of leaving because he was gonna be a winner which ever way, he was open to leaving and he made it known to GC because 2 things were gonna happen, Port were gonna hold off contract talks which would have given him the opening to say 'Port really didnt want me so i accept the GC offer' or Port were gonna wet their pants and sign him up again which was his preferred option. Anyone & everyone on the board should have seen through this scheme and not got into a game of playing one against the other, and more importantly the board should of ripped up his contract right on the spot for even trying to work that angle, being the head coach.

I'm not missing any point and understand exactly what happened. Gold Coast were apparently chasing Hinkley, and Hinkley was apparently very keen on going. Keith Thomas told Gold Coast to "back off" because Hinkley was contracted. I have no doubt we missed a golden opportunity for a clean break, but I doubt a CEO in the league would have taken kindly to someone walking into their bedroom and fiddling around in their underpants drawer.
I maintain Keith Thomas was acting on the board's wishes. As CEO he simply doesn't make those decisions. It was all a monumental fu** up from the club, but I just don't agree that Thomas was the problem, no matter what he might have said publicly. It's his job to polish the turd. You obviously think otherwise. That's fine.
 

AFC AFeederClub

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I'm not missing any point and understand exactly what happened. Gold Coast were apparently chasing Hinkley, and Hinkley was apparently very keen on going. Keith Thomas told Gold Coast to "back off" because Hinkley was contracted. I have no doubt we missed a golden opportunity for a clean break, but I doubt a CEO in the league would have taken kindly to someone walking into their bedroom and fiddling around in their underpants drawer.
I maintain Keith Thomas was acting on the board's wishes. As CEO he simply doesn't make those decisions. It was all a monumental **** up from the club, but I just don't agree that Thomas was the problem, no matter what he might have said publicly. It's his job to polish the turd. You obviously think otherwise. That's fine.
you see Thomas was the problem, because he shouldnt have accepted Ken talking behind his back to another club in order to lever himself into a better position. He should have been highly offended that a bloke with who he had worked with for the past 5 years would go behind his back to put himself into a position like that. These are the exact moments that make you or break you as a CEO, he was the problem because he didnt have the character himself to make the tuff decision, instead he took the easy option.
 

S.Patrol.G

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Koch and a significant majority of the Board. Get that mix right and the rest looks after itself. You start at the top.
 

finbarr

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you see Thomas was the problem, because he shouldnt have accepted Ken talking behind his back to another club in order to lever himself into a better position. He should have been highly offended that a bloke with who he had worked with for the past 5 years would go behind his back to put himself into a position like that. These are the exact moments that make you or break you as a CEO, he was the problem because he didnt have the character himself to make the tuff decision, instead he took the easy option.
This is going in circles now, but.....

If Hinkley actively sought out Gold Coast's management about the coaching position, you're right. Port should have hung him out to dry. But the evidence seems to point to Gold Coast seeking out Hinkley. In that case Thomas not only had every right to tell them to back off, it would have been negligent of him as a CEO not to, whether or not we wanted Hinkley gone. He was a contracted coach at the time.

Personally, i'd have been packing Ken's bags for him.
 

S.Patrol.G

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This is going in circles now, but.....

If Hinkley actively sought out Gold Coast's management about the coaching position, you're right. Port should have hung him out to dry. But the evidence seems to point to Gold Coast seeking out Hinkley. In that case Thomas not only had every right to tell them to back off, it would have been negligent of him as a CEO not to, whether or not we wanted Hinkley gone. He was a contracted coach at the time.

Personally, i'd have been packing Ken's bags for him.
Yes, GC sought him out, but Hinkley used it as a bargaining chip. Instead of showing him the door, they extended his contract.
 

JUSTWORK

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That's not how I remember it. It was Koch.
Koch was very public in saying :he is out coach and he isn't going" but surely KT would have played a vital role in the extension. As CEO if he was hard against it it couldn't have happened could it ?.

This is going in circles now, but.....

If Hinkley actively sought out Gold Coast's management about the coaching position, you're right. Port should have hung him out to dry. But the evidence seems to point to Gold Coast seeking out Hinkley. In that case Thomas not only had every right to tell them to back off, it would have been negligent of him as a CEO not to, whether or not we wanted Hinkley gone. He was a contracted coach at the time.

Personally, i'd have been packing Ken's bags for him.
As would have i, first comment should have been "you're contracted, we will discuss extensions end of next year" (just quietly after missing finals from 11-4 he wouldn't be coaching now.)

Then if he wanted out, its "sit out of footy for a year mate or the suns can pay us to release you."

We couldn't have handled it worse.
 

finbarr

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Yes, GC sought him out, but Hinkley used it as a bargaining chip. Instead of showing him the door, they extended his contract.
That I 100% agree with. Hinkley played us like a fiddle. But at this point it was the board who blinked, led by Koch. KT's words were just words.
 

S.Patrol.G

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That I 100% agree with. Hinkley played us like a fiddle. But at this point it was the board who blinked, led by Koch. KT's words were just words.
The Board instructed KT to negotiate an extension. The negotiation resulted in the offer of an extension of 2 years on top of Hinkley's remaining contract which was not quite what the intended offer was supposed to be. Despite this, the Board still approved it.

We are in this position because of an incompetent Board, led by an incompetent Chairman.
 

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