Climate Change Arguing

[kranky al]

Im as against fossil fuels as any but these direct job comparisons are always slanted af.

They show the direct jobs associated with mining not all the indirect jobs.

Anyone who lives in a mining town will tell you a mine closure screws everyone in town.

You are taking ten or twenty percent of the highest income earners AND spenders out of the towns economy.

The flow on effects to the lawnmower guys, the various trades and retailers is catastrophic. For a good 2 years 70% of the main retail street in town was untenanted.

When the mining boom in wa finished over 2 years 9000 people left geraldton - out of about 40000.

The absolute devastation to gero and other mining towns in wa is absolute.

Articles like this dont show the full picture at all - there are 3-4 people indirectly working for every 1 directly working.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

when people refer to "the science", regarding climate change, they are referring to the hypothesis that CO2 increase global temperatures.

However if we want to take the next step and implement solutions to reduce CO2 emissions, we have to look to engineers and the facts.

When we look at the engineering solutions available now, the choice is clear. Yet too many arm wavers cry out about "act now", "the science is clear". Yet these same people refuse to accept the facts on what works and what doesn't. Instead they call for the government to act now and implement solutions that have never achieved the goal of reducing CO2.

It is this simple......"no country on the planet with a renewable strategy has achieve 14-70g CO2 per kwhr, unless they rely upon nuclear and hydro. Yet if you have nuclear and hydro, you actually increase CO2 with the introduction of renewables.

So the difference between science and facts are very clear in this debate.




Pension funds and wealth management make decisions in this order:
1) what maximises wealth under management
2) what maximises returns

Would you as a wealth manager make an investment in coal, making 100% returns in one year amounting to $100m in gains for the fund...................AND as a result loose $1b under management resulting in forced selling to meet redemptions and loose $20m out of your own wage?

People will be making increased returns, higher than they would otherwise be, on coal for the rest of our lives. Those that benefit will be the established coal players and state owned enterprises (and the entities they back).

Yeah I don’t think you’re getting this. Your grasp of the imperatives driving investment fund decision making is laughable.

 

[Kram]

Yeah I don’t think you’re getting this. Your grasp of the imperatives driving investment fund decision making is laughable.

lol he's back for more, you got caught out boasting about amazing non existent portfolios

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah I don’t think you’re getting this. Your grasp of the imperatives driving investment fund decision making is laughable.

I own and run a fund

I know most of the other funds including blackrock

 

[Kram]

I own and run a fund

I know most of the other funds including blackrock

Long oil and gas?

 

[Power Raid]

Long oil and gas?

we provide debt funding (with equity kickers) to O&G rather than equity as our core business is hard rock

that said I see good times for gas but oil will be harder

 

[Kram]

Hey SBD Gonzalez LTR up another lazy 22% again to 41.5c, buying in a heap at 5.6c not a bad call from some bloke you called too stupid to invest in renewables ya gutless coward twat.

Got my mate on to CHN at 50c but unfortunately I passed up at buying at around $1 myself.

Meet the other Goyder, who just made $225m

Julie-anne SpragueRich List editor
Jan 4, 2021 – 12.00am


As Richard Goyder frantically worked to shore up the future of Qantas, Woodside and the Australian Football League, around the corner from his Mosman Park home in Perth his cousin, Tim, was hitting the jackpot.

On March 23, the very day the Australian sharemarket fell to its pandemic-induced low, Tim Goyder’s Chalice Mining released some staggering results.

Tim Goyder: “There’s a lot of people that can spend their whole career and not find anything." Philip Gostelow

The exploration minnow hit the proverbial pot of gold at its nickel, copper and palladium Julimar project about 70 kilometres north-east of Perth. That lit a fire under its share price that continued to burn as the company kept drilling. By November it was telling investors its project was emerging as "a globally significant deposit of critical metals in Western Australia".

Mr Goyder starts 2021 with an equity wealth pile of about $225 million compared with roughly $36 million a year ago. But it is not all from Chalice. Mr Goyder is behind not one but two of the 10 best-performing stocks on the All Ordinaries Index in 2020. Liontown Resources, a lithium play, is up 290 per cent.

“I pinch myself every morning,” Mr Goyder told The Australian Financial Review. “I’ve been at it a long time. I pegged my first tenements when I was 20.”

Chalice Mining jumped from 22.5¢ at the start of 2020 to close at $3.90 on December 31, making it the second-best-performing stock on the All Ordinaries Index behind De Grey Mining, while Mr Goyder's lithium explorer Liontown Resources delivered a 290 per cent return, making it the eighth-best performer.
He is one of about a dozen executives to build massive under-the-radar fortunes last year, including former Rich Lister Alan Tribe, whose PYC Therapeutics delivered him a paper windfall of $84 million; the backers of Aussie Broadband, who collectively had their paper wealth double; and Andreas Fouras, whose Velocimetry Consulting owns 25 per cent of 4D Medical. The medical imaging software group in August after raising capital was at 73¢ and finished the year at $2.43, valuing Velocimetry's stake at $157 million.
'Lots of tickets in the lottery'
Tim Goyder has been in the mining caper since his early 20s, pegging his first tenement near Eneabba, a small town where he grew up 278 kilometres north of Perth. Some of his first deals were with the prospectors Lang Hancock and Peter Wright, who went on to peg land that would help forge massive fortunes for their descendants.
“You need lots of tickets in the lottery,” Mr Goyder said when asked about the secrets to his success.

You pick up the newspaper and think 'gosh it’s an easy game, look at these billionaires' but there are thousands out there who are just getting by.
— Tim Goyder, Chalice Mining

He floated Chalice in 2006 at 20¢ a share. Its shares had drifted down to 14¢ in mid-March but would hit a record $4.44 in December, while Liontown, also floated in 2006 at 20¢ a share, climbed from 5¢ in March to a record 36.5¢ last month. Mr Goyder, who pocketed $10.5 million selling some of his Chalice stock in May, also has stakes in DevEx Resources and Strike Energy. Including the share sale, Mr Goyder made a tidy $200 million in 2020.
The success for both Chalice and Liontown could make it seem like the exploration game is perhaps easier than it is. Mr Goyder points out there's plenty of people out there scouring, drilling and hoping but coming up empty.
“I’ve worked in Africa and Canada and had my wins and my losses. But you pick up the newspaper and think 'gosh it’s an easy game, look at these billionaires' but there are thousands out there who are just getting by.
“There’s a lot of people that can spend their whole career and not find anything. We are very lucky and very fortunate,” he said.
One of the biggest challenges for explorers, he said, is assembling the right people to get projects off the ground. Explorers are cash-strapped, limiting how many people they can employ and making it difficult to attract talent from the bigger mining houses.

“You can’t really have a big management team when you are starting these companies off. You don’t have the cash base or the balance sheet,” he said.
He lures executives by offering a less cumbersome environment; working for bigger companies comes with plenty of burden and compliance and for middle management in particular it can be frustrating.
Chalice chief financial officer Richard Hacker is an ex-Woodside employee, while 33-year-old managing director Alex Dorsch was a consultant at McKinsey & Company.
Mr Dorsch is now sitting on equity worth $1.3 million, up from $48,000 in March, while he has got about 5 million well-in-the-money options worth about $20 million.

Wins and what-ifs
Mr Goyder is Chalice and Liontown’s single biggest shareholder, owning 11 per cent and 18 per cent respectively. “I’m not really into director fees. I’m an owner I guess."
His success is driven by assembling a good team but also picking himself up after failure.
“If you keep at it you have a bit of a chance. But it comes down to a team effort and having a culture that when you get run over you get up and have another go because there’s just no choice,” Mr Goyder said.
The small team assembled at Chalice are excited. They reckon they may have landed not just a massive single discovery but potentially an entirely new mineral province. It raised $100 million in December to fund a two-year accelerated exploration program.
Over at Liontown, the company has unearthed a large lithium holding underpinning its flagship Kathleen Valley project 680 kilometres north-east of Perth . But early in 2019, when lithium prices were weaker and it was still trying to prove up a resource, the cash-strapped group raised capital from “family and friends” at 2¢ a pop, valuing it at about $20 million. Liontown is now worth more than $600 million.
“It’s all hugs and kisses now. When you’re hot, you’re hot,” Mr Goyder said.
But not every decision Mr Goyder has made has delivered a bounty. He admits to looking at land that would eventually be pegged by Andrew Forrest that would form part of Fortescue Metals Group and make Mr Forrest the richest man in the country.
“I think, ‘if only’,” Mr Goyder recalls of his Sliding Doors moment. “You pass up more than you get right.”
He agrees with our assessment he had a better 2020 than his cousin, Richard, the chairman of Qantas, Woodside and the AFL, who spent 24 years at Wesfarmers and was chief executive until 2017.
“Ha, absolutely . He’s had a rough one. We are a close family. We do have a chuckle.”
By his assessment, the future for Australian explorers is promising given the nation's ability to contain COVID-19 and keep the mining industry open, while government stimulus globally is fuelling demand for consumer goods that need minerals to produce them.
“I think there’s a fantastic opportunity going into a world flush with cash. Consumerism and infrastructure are going to be strong. That bodes well for mining. Other than Australia, a lot of places have stopped exploration and building mines and these things take a while to turn around and these things are hard to find.
“I’m not slowing down.”

https://www.afr.com/wealth/investing/meet-the-other-goyder-who-just-made-225m-20201215-p56nm4

 

[Kram]

I've been holding some lithium shares for a while. Galaxy, Pilbara and Orocobre specifically. They have been hammered over the past 18 months but are starting to rebound very well.

Having a nice run today.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Having a nice run today.

I see that. It's an interesting thing that when the market is down as a whole the lithium stocks quite often head north.

I am still behind the ledger though but they were always a long term prospect for me.

 

[Kram]

So you're a loser, and what's worse, proud of it.

View attachment 799902
Liontown Resources (LTR) is an ASX listed battery metals exploration and development company with lithium discoveries at two projects and an advanced vanadium opportunity. LTR is next generation of lithium producers, following a Scoping Study from the Kathleen Valley Project located in the NE Goldfields of WA. The Company's 100%-owned lithium assets at Kathleen Valley and Buldania are both located in premier WA mining districts.

Doesn't look like much of a 'loser' to me atm.

They are worth 68.5c now!!!

This loser bought in at 5.6c

 

[Baltimore Jack]

....and this is where the Australian Government is at

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[Snake_Baker]

View attachment 1153867

Do you think this continual sarcasm implies to the reader that you're some kind of authority on this matter?

You're a political cheer leader, nothing more.

 

[Gough]

Do you think this continual sarcasm implies to the reader that you're some kind of authority on this matter?

You're a political cheer leader, nothing more.

Only in Australia can people regard climate change as a political issue.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Only in Australia can people regard climate change as a political issue.

Don't pretend that you can even contemplate the science.

You're just another mindless cheer leader.

 

[Seeds]

Only in Australia can people regard climate change as a political issue.

USA

 

[Gough]

Don't pretend that you can even contemplate the science.

You're just another mindless cheer leader.

I can't, that's why I listen to people to people who know better than I (and you as well) and common consensus is that we're in deep s**t.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It fascinates me how people clearly not capable of analysing the relevant data can take on an air of smugness about the issue anyway. It's just a team sport to them.

Don't they know that people with half a brain can see them as absolute frauds?

 

[Snake_Baker]

I can't, that's why I listen to people to people who know better than I (and you as well) and common consensus is that we're in deep sh*t.

You wouldn't know WHO knows better!

You pick & choose whatever sits well with your political team. It's the intellectual equivalent of flipping a coin.

 

[Seeds]

I can't, that's why I listen to people to people who know better than I (and you as well) and common consensus is that we're in deep sh*t.

experts thought we were in deep s**t 20 years ago.

not anymore though.

clean energy is now happening regardless of our concerns for climate change. As is reforestation.

there are no Armageddon climate scenarios anymore.

ofcourse the climate change panels aren’t going to say this in their reports because then The political will for action will completely collapse. We still need to do sh*t to prevent the worse case outcome but the worse case outcome is not all that scary anymore. Most people would barely notice it even if it played out.

 

[Snake_Baker]

there are no "known" Armageddon climate scenarios anymore.

Computer programmer-environmentalists are not scientists. Not even close.

The system is too chaotic to predict.

FFS, we still don't definitively know how nucleation occurs, and this is countless orders of magnitude of higher complexity.

 

[swingdog]

We wouldn't know WHO knows better!

We pick & choose whatever sits well with our political team. It's the intellectual equivalent of flipping a coin.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Fixed it for you.

This is correct as far as the politically inclined are concerned. This is too complex for politics.

There's two types of "deniers", those who have an opposing political view, and those who know the political arguments are not scientifically valid.

I fall in to the 2nd category.

Climate hysterics are the smarmier version of "anti-vaxxers".

 

[swingdog]

experts thought we were in deep sh*t 20 years ago.

not anymore though.

clean energy is now happening regardless of our concerns for climate change. As is reforestation.

there are no Armageddon climate scenarios anymore.

ofcourse the climate change panels aren’t going to say this in their reports because then The political will for action will completely collapse. We still need to do sh*t to prevent the worse case outcome but the worse case outcome is not all that scary anymore. Most people would barely notice it even if it played out.

Just going to ignore 20 years of government policy and investment that has led to the current state of affairs.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Just going to ignore 20 years of government policy and investment that has led to the current state of affairs.

Can you PROVE this?

Y'know, scientifically?