Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[11sjw]

mining is coming to an end

Really?

 

[faible]

Really?

Well the WA economy is far from what it was even two years ago; so I'd say it's on the decline more than on the rise.

 

[ShanDog]

Well the WA economy is far from what it was even two years ago; so I'd say it's on the decline more than on the rise.

Is that economically speaking, or a reduction of available resources to mine?

 

[faible]

Is that economically speaking, or a reduction of available resources to mine?

I’m far from an expert, so if anyone else knows more I’d be happy for them to jump in and clarify; it’s a little of both.

The cost of retrieving various minerals (oil also falls in to this) is climbing as we deplete the easiest sources to access, whilst at the same time demand for a number of them has also dropped.

This is not to say we’re going to see mining disappear in the short term, but I think the role of government is to be looking at the long term, and where Australia is going to be able to develop itself in the future.

 

[Proud SJW]

I’m far from an expert, so if anyone else knows more I’d be happy for them to jump in and clarify; it’s a little of both.

The cost of retrieving various minerals (oil also falls in to this) is climbing as we deplete the easiest sources to access, whilst at the same time demand for a number of them has also dropped.

This is not to say we’re going to see mining disappear in the short term, but I think the role of government is to be looking at the long term, and where Australia is going to be able to develop itself in the future.

I suppose it's a little self-indulgent of me to point out that had they done that 20-40 years ago, Western Australia in particular might be in a far better position now.
I'm not a socialist by any means, but to wax semi-plagiaristic and shout "will somebody please think of the children" in this instance might be at least somewhat appropriate.

Every nation needs a damned fine benevolent dictator every now and then, regardless of how they are seen in posterity. Can you imagine what might have been had Lee Kuan Yew been an Australian?
We'd be tearing his legacy to pieces from our comfortable positions of wealth and prosperity, in the name of ... something.

 

[Snake_Baker]

There's some unusual temperature readings in the Arctic at the moment (in red)

http://sites.uci.edu/zlabe/arctic-temperatures/

 

[Frank Bunn]

It's not that unusual. There's often a lot of variability early in the year then it always hits the same point in July. Eg. 1976.


Here's the link for the data. You can click on different years back to 1958.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Or for trends back to 1750.

http://wvanwijngaarden.info.yorku.ca/files/2015/11/Arctic-Europe-Paper-2015.pdf

 

[The Passenger]

Interesting charts.

Current activity Is not unusual, but from 2005 to now the current day reading is higher than the 1958-2002 averages for probably 90% of each year.

It hasn't dipped significantly below the 58-02 averages since early 2013, and that dip below was only for about ten days. The last significant dip before that was in 2010.

 

[JoondalupJ]

It's not that unusual. There's often a lot of variability early in the year then it always hits the same point in July. Eg. 1976.

View attachment 463033
Here's the link for the data. You can click on different years back to 1958.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Or for trends back to 1750.

http://wvanwijngaarden.info.yorku.ca/files/2015/11/Arctic-Europe-Paper-2015.pdf

Pardon my stupidity , but is that graph showing a heating up in the middle years and a cooling again later on,
toward 2017?
Plain speaking for dummies thanks. Green line and red line?
By the way WA has had the mildest summer I've experienced in the 28 years I've been here, this 2017 to 2018. What ever that means.
But its still by the month summer and this morning there was a slight chill in the air ,true.

Sheesh 28 years????? getting really homesick now for my old Melbourne these later days!

 

[bombersfan4000]

Well the WA economy is far from what it was even two years ago; so I'd say it's on the decline more than on the rise.

The wa economy is fine! Mining works in 7 to 8 year cycles towards the end of this year it will be going agaib

 

[bombersfan4000]

Is that economically speaking, or a reduction of available resources to mine?

No mines are opening up all the time or expanding the are exporting more types materials and more of them all the time

 

[HairyO]

Well the WA economy is far from what it was even two years ago; so I'd say it's on the decline more than on the rise.

Thats more to do with idiots no longer paying millions of dollars for houses in the middle of nowhere and the WA govt pouring billions of dollars down the shitter.

NSW did exactly the same thing in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Labor would get billions more in Stamp Duties than budgeted yet had absolutely nothing to show for the extra money.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Plain speaking for dummies thanks. Green line and red line?

Green line is daily mean temperatures for the period from 1958 to 2002.

Red line is the daily mean temperatures for 2018.

Both subject to 'reanalysis'.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

With the costs of energy sky rocketing in Australia and having a devastating influence on many peoples lives more people are starting to have a closer look at climate change rather than just listening claims made by those who do believe in climate change.

I get the feeling that more and more people are constantly forming the belief that climate change and that is man made global warming is just not a reality.

Take a look at this survey in 2015 were 54% of respondents do not believe in man made climate change.

http://joannenova.com.au/2015/11/54...80-dont-donate-to-environment-or-vote-for-it/

As for the idea that all scientists/experts believe in man made global warming that is just not true, just got to this Wikipedia page to see a list of experts who are climate change sceptics. I can also guarantee that many more experts will be sceptical but are too frightened to say anything publicly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...th_the_scientific_consensus_on_global_warming

The fact is we had an Ice age thousands of years ago, we also had a mini ice age during the 14th century so we know that the world goes through climate cycles. The truth is too that the warmer the weather the more food that can be produced. Good things happen when the earth warms up .

 

[The Passenger]

As for the idea that all scientists/experts believe in man made global warming that is just not true, just got to this Wikipedia page to see a list of experts who are climate change sceptics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...th_the_scientific_consensus_on_global_warming

Yet, still a significantly higher percentage share the pro-view.

I can also guarantee that many more experts will be sceptical but are too frightened to say anything publicly.

How many is "many more"? 9, 14, 31, 390?

"Facts over feelings" yeah?

Without having the time to click on everyone from that page but the ones I clicked on seem to have pretty good careers despite coming out publicly.

Willie Soon was having a great time of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/...-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html

He has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yet, still a significantly higher percentage share the pro-view.

How many is "many more"? 9, 14, 31, 390?

"Facts over feelings" yeah?

Without having the time to click on everyone from that page but the ones I clicked on seem to have pretty good careers despite coming out publicly.

Willie Soon was having a great time of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/...-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html

You don't see the stupidity in thinking that global warming is man made when 10,000 years ago we had an ice age ?

By the way most of those so called experts who believe in climate change also have a vested interest because the more they promote the dangers of climate change they more work and money they make for themselves.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You don't see the stupidity in thinking that global warming is man made when 10,000 years ago we had an ice age ?

By the way most of those so called experts who believe in climate change also have a vested interest because the more they promote the dangers of climate change they more work and money they make for themselves.

As opposed to the other skeptics being funded by Exxon and co. ?

 

[Bradesmaen]

You don't see the stupidity in thinking that global warming is man made when 10,000 years ago we had an ice age ?

Don't even try that bullshit, you don't understand science and have proven to dismiss it many times. Science to you is evil voodoo.

 

[JoondalupJ]

With the costs of energy sky rocketing in Australia and having a devastating influence on many peoples lives more people are starting to have a closer look at climate change rather than just listening claims made by those who do believe in climate change.

I get the feeling that more and more people are constantly forming the belief that climate change and that is man made global warming is just not a reality.

Take a look at this survey in 2015 were 54% of respondents do not believe in man made climate change.

http://joannenova.com.au/2015/11/54...80-dont-donate-to-environment-or-vote-for-it/

As for the idea that all scientists/experts believe in man made global warming that is just not true, just got to this Wikipedia page to see a list of experts who are climate change sceptics. I can also guarantee that many more experts will be sceptical but are too frightened to say anything publicly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...th_the_scientific_consensus_on_global_warming

The fact is we had an Ice age thousands of years ago, we also had a mini ice age during the 14th century so we know that the world goes through climate cycles. The truth is too that the warmer the weather the more food that can be produced. Good things happen when the earth warms up .

There has been more than one ice age, also when people say this month or that day or this year is the hottest on record???Compared to what??? The world is billions of years old.
Funny how the heated up planet of billions of years ago with toxic fumes volcanoes earthquakes everywhere happened to create a place to begin life forms, from what may have looked like hell.
I get sceptical when people talk about seas levels and when they talk about sinking countries in the Pacific, sea levels probably change all the time too, but how in hell do you measure that accurately , I don't care about people who come on and say there are ways they gauge the seas levels, I simply say they may do a measurement but if its accurate to be able to tell if the level is on a constant rise, well I don't believe that.
Climate change is another political axe to grind, and pollution of rivers and streets and the bush that should be cleaned up, but climate disaster??? Nah its been there since everything began and nature will take care of that good or bad. Not we humans.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Don't even try that bullshit, you don't understand science and have proven to dismiss it many times. Science to you is evil voodoo.

Describe your theory and why we are doomed and the proof, that's the key?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

There has been more than one ice age, also when people say this month or that day or this year is the hottest on record???Compared to what??? The world is billions of years old.
Funny how the heated up planet of billions of years ago with toxic fumes volcanoes earthquakes everywhere happened to create a place to begin life forms, from what may have looked like hell.
I get sceptical when people talk about seas levels and when they talk about sinking countries in the Pacific, sea levels probably change all the time too, but how in hell do you measure that accurately , I don't care about people who come on and say there are ways they gauge the seas levels, I simply say they may do a measurement but if its accurate to be able to tell if the level is on a constant rise, well I don't believe that.
Climate change is another political axe to grind, and pollution of rivers and streets and the bush that should be cleaned up, but climate disaster??? Nah its been there since everything began and nature will take care of that good or bad. Not we humans.

Totally agree.

We know that the earths climate goes through natural fluctuations so why are we so shocked that our climate is changing today ?

 

[JoondalupJ]

Don't even try that bullshit, you don't understand science and have proven to dismiss it many times. Science to you is evil voodoo.

Science used the right way is brilliant, when its used to make a Frankenstein's monster, like the political notion of "we are destroying the world" then science makes itself look stupid, what science should be doing is working on medical miracle and ways to make everyone equal . So far science is frightening us and building robots to take our jobs.

It's all Hysterics , and of course we affect a bit of weather , but thats happened forever, and the main point about all of this is no one , NO ONE, can prove any absolutes, about a yes or a no when it comes to climate.

Thats why its a political football.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Describe your theory and why we are doomed and the proof, that's the key?

You don't believe in science, so why should I bother when you will ignore it anyway.

 

[faible]

Science used the right way is brilliant, when its used to make a Frankenstein's monster, like the political notion of "we are destroying the world" then science makes itself look stupid, what science should be doing is working on medical miracle and ways to make everyone equal . So far science is frightening us and building robots to take our jobs.

It's all Hysterics , and of course we affect a bit of weather , but thats happened forever, and the main point about all of this is no one , NO ONE, can prove any absolutes, about a yes or a no when it comes to climate.

Thats why its a political football.

I guess it comes down to a philosophical question as to whether we should do what we can to minimise our impact even for those who are uncertain.

If we can make a difference by being more environmentally conscious / friendly in our lives, should we do so on the chance that we actually do have a meaningful impact on the climate?

See Pascal's Wager for the concept.

Stuff like renewable energy, more energy efficient appliances / lighting, biodegradable packaging - and reduced packing - are all reasonably attainable steps for the average person to take. And if it has the benefit of directly reducing your electricity bill, then you're going to come out ahead as an individual.

I'm not a scientist so can't speak for the veracity of arguments for or against; but I do believe most people can take reasonable steps in their own lives to be more conscious of their consumption, in ways that benefits themselves individually and en masse can have meaningful impacts.

The water situation in Cape Town is a good example for how quickly - and drastically - our major cities could be affected by drought. Melbourne had a scare a few years back that saw people putting in their own water tanks which helps for the future.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You don't believe in science, so why should I bother when you will ignore it anyway.

Climate change is more like a religion than a science.