Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[burge13]

Yeah, climate change isnt a cult at all. 1 reply and 3 of you jump up and down within 20 mins. Very calm, level headed people indeed.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yeah, climate change isnt a cult at all. 1 reply and 3 of you jump up and down within 20 mins. Very calm, level headed people indeed.

 

[burge13]

How involved are the CCP in the actual profits for those mines? Is there an economic incentive in it for the individuals involved; not the country being in need of power, but the people in government and government business using the excuse as a method of lining their own pockets?

Is it actually cheaper to open the mines, or is it because it's the easiest means of semi-corrupt (or openly corrupt) personal enrichment via insider trading and conflicts of interest?

It's an interesting dilemma to solve - how to convert to renewables when cheap power drives development - but I think it's just as interesting that when considering this that the capitalism of it all isn't really considered.

Given china is going to use so much coal no matter what anyone does, and we have almost no limit of it here, and ours is significantly cleaner than theirs is (better for the environment). Stop the ridiculous hoops for our mines to operate and ship it to china at extortionate prices. Use that money to progress renewables here effectively and not rushed as they are all around the world.

Sadly, the way our government behaves there is little insensitive for a coal mine to expand or even operate. 40% royalties brought in without consultation made qld uninvestable. Insane hoops to open a new mine. They've cut the supply driving the price up rather than work together to help everyone. Frankly, our government and the climate cult are clueless but the inmates are running the asylum so we cut our nose to spite our face.

Coal is being forced out, we all see that, but there could have been much more advantage to everyone than dribblers yelling "COAL BAD ME NO LIKE COAL IT MUST NOT EXIST" which was always nonsensical. Now, the us against them attitude from both sides beyond repair and billions will just be paid to shareholders (where else can it go now?), which will then upset the same morons as they hate franking credits. See a theme here as to who the problem might be?

Likewise oil and gas companies

Dont get me started on the amount of people who moan about coal yet dont know the difference between met and thermal. Id bet this is a huge proportion of activists too

 

[adogsfan5]

How involved are the CCP in the actual profits for those mines? Is there an economic incentive in it for the individuals involved; not the country being in need of power, but the people in government and government business using the excuse as a method of lining their own pockets?

Is it actually cheaper to open the mines, or is it because it's the easiest means of semi-corrupt (or openly corrupt) personal enrichment via insider trading and conflicts of interest?

It's an interesting dilemma to solve - how to convert to renewables when cheap power drives development - but I think it's just as interesting that when considering this that the capitalism of it all isn't really considered.

All very good questions. Especially in the first paragraph.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Given china is going to use so much coal no matter what anyone does, and we have almost no limit of it here, and ours is significantly cleaner than theirs is (better for the environment). Stop the ridiculous hoops for our mines to operate and ship it to china at extortionate prices. Use that money to progress renewables here effectively and not rushed as they are all around the world.

Sadly, the way our government behaves there is little insensitive for a coal mine to expand or even operate. 40% royalties brought in without consultation made qld uninvestable. Insane hoops to open a new mine. They've cut the supply driving the price up rather than work together to help everyone. Frankly, our government and the climate cult are clueless but the inmates are running the asylum so we cut our nose to spite our face.

Coal is being forced out, we all see that, but there could have been much more advantage to everyone than dribblers yelling "COAL BAD ME NO LIKE COAL IT MUST NOT EXIST" which was always nonsensical. Now, the us against them attitude from both sides beyond repair and billions will just be paid to shareholders (where else can it go now?), which will then upset the same morons as they hate franking credits. See a theme here as to who the problem might be?

Likewise oil and gas companies

Dont get me started on the amount of people who moan about coal yet dont know the difference between met and thermal. Id bet this is a huge proportion of activists too

Phasing out coal is not nonsensical at all, in fact it's the only thing that makes sense. There is no such thing as clean coal, stop saying that you're embarrassing yourself.

Activists know a bit more than the tired coal lobby views you make and your coal share investments that you're proud of.
You need to read some year7 science books so you have more of a handle in what you're talking about , otherwise you sound a bit brainwashed and ignorant.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Yeah, climate change isnt a cult at all. 1 reply and 3 of you jump up and down within 20 mins. Very calm, level headed people indeed.

Basic science is a cult? Lol . Give us all a break old man. You're in the Sky News cult of lies, lies , lies.

 

[ElectricG]

Yeah, climate change isnt a cult at all. 1 reply and 3 of you jump up and down within 20 mins. Very calm, level headed people indeed.

I reckon the cult of nihilistic, contrarian “climate skepticism” is worse. Definitely has the “in a sea of sheeple, we know the truth” vibe that a lot of cults do.

 

[adogsfan5]

Phasing out coal is not nonsensical at all, in fact it's the only thing that makes sense. There is no such thing as clean coal, stop saying that you're embarrassing yourself.

Activists know a bit more than the tired coal lobby views you make and your coal share investments that you're proud of.
You need to read some year7 science books so you have more of a handle in what you're talking about , otherwise you sound a bit brainwashed and ignorant.

What year would you like all coal completely removed and how confident are you that renewables will completely do the job by that same time?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

What year would you like all coal completely removed and how confident are you that renewables will completely do the job by that same time?

I don't know, ask the experts. Renewables need investment from govt. There has been a criminal lack of investment in this country.
First step is stopping all new fossil fuel projects today. Taking away all fossil fuel subsidies.Then phasing out exports by 2030.

 

[dockerfemme]

So what’s the plan then?

Okay it’s 2024 and the loony cultists have gotten off their collective high horse and no longer judge, or even confront the people who say it’s all too hard. Carbon emissions and the temperature anomaly continue to rise.

What now?

I have a small, partial answer.

I think if the focus was on the world reducing emissions rather than nations building renewables there might be an improved result.

For example, Australia is intending on spending $20 billion on upgrading the transmission on the NEM so that we can get the renewable generation to 82%. If we just focussed on getting renewables to a reasonable level without that large spend and used the $20 billion to help India from building lots more coal fired power stations (which they are intending to do), world emissions would probably be better off. Similarly, it looks like we will put subsidies into buying electric stoves, heaters etc to replace gas ones, when helping Poland get rid of its extremely dirty coal fired power would probably do more for world emissions.

I do get that there is some gain in some countries being bleeding edge, but I suspect the world has the balance wrong.

Doing simple things like identifying the dirtiest coal fired power stations in the world and replacing them asap even if it is with state of the art gas might yield some good value for money.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Doing simple things like identifying the dirtiest coal fired power stations in the world and replacing them asap even if it is with state of the art gas might yield some good value for money.

Some of the renewable lobby doesn't want compromise though, it's all renewable right now and nothing else.

 

[dockerfemme]

Some of the renewable lobby doesn't want compromise though, it's all renewable right now and nothing else.

I guess that was my point. Reducing emissions should be more important than building renewables. Reducing emissions now has value versus reducing emissions over the next 10 years. Building renewables provides some reduction in emissions, but at a world level there may be other value for money options that could be taken up.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I guess that was my point. Reducing emissions should be more important than building renewables. Reducing emissions now has value versus reducing emissions over the next 10 years. Building renewables provides some reduction in emissions, but at a world level there may be other value for money options that could be taken up.

Great post, and totes agree with you.

 

[Gethelred]

Given china is going to use so much coal no matter what anyone does, and we have almost no limit of it here, and ours is significantly cleaner than theirs is (better for the environment). Stop the ridiculous hoops for our mines to operate and ship it to china at extortionate prices. Use that money to progress renewables here effectively and not rushed as they are all around the world.

Sadly, the way our government behaves there is little insensitive for a coal mine to expand or even operate. 40% royalties brought in without consultation made qld uninvestable. Insane hoops to open a new mine. They've cut the supply driving the price up rather than work together to help everyone. Frankly, our government and the climate cult are clueless but the inmates are running the asylum so we cut our nose to spite our face.

Coal is being forced out, we all see that, but there could have been much more advantage to everyone than dribblers yelling "COAL BAD ME NO LIKE COAL IT MUST NOT EXIST" which was always nonsensical. Now, the us against them attitude from both sides beyond repair and billions will just be paid to shareholders (where else can it go now?), which will then upset the same morons as they hate franking credits. See a theme here as to who the problem might be?

Likewise oil and gas companies

Dont get me started on the amount of people who moan about coal yet dont know the difference between met and thermal. Id bet this is a huge proportion of activists too

I think that's an interesting perspective, but I'd like to extend the lens put upon the CCP over here, too.

We well know the connections between politics and mining here. One thinks the above projects as exactly what the big miners want as opposed to what we as in the public's best interests.

... which is why we need to try and push for reformists in power, as opposed to the standard status quo within Australian politics: sit on your hands conservatism.

Aside from that, that's a well thought through perspective.

 

[burge13]

I don't know, ask the experts. Renewables need investment from govt. There has been a criminal lack of investment in this country.
First step is stopping all new fossil fuel projects today. Taking away all fossil fuel subsidies.Then phasing out exports by 2030.

Dumb as **** and dangerous

Poorer countries need it to keep the heating on. Stop being selfish

 

[burge13]

Phasing out coal is not nonsensical at all, in fact it's the only thing that makes sense. There is no such thing as clean coal, stop saying that you're embarrassing yourself.

Activists know a bit more than the tired coal lobby views you make and your coal share investments that you're proud of.
You need to read some year7 science books so you have more of a handle in what you're talking about , otherwise you sound a bit brainwashed and ignorant.

Not what i said. Learn to read if you're going to argue

Try again

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Dumb as * and dangerous

Poorer countries need it to keep the heating on. Stop being selfish

More abuse from Burge as usual. The man with coal shares sharing his wisdom.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Not what i said. Learn to read if you're going to argue

Try again

Clean coal. Lol.

 

[burge13]

Clean coal. Lol.

Again not what i said. Learn to read please

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Again not what i said. Learn to read please

You use the term clean coal all the time and you have coal shares and want coal mines to expand so you can make more money.

 

[burge13]

You use the term clean coal all the time and you have coal shares and want coal mines to expand so you can make more money.

Your reading comprehension is at a 2nd grade level. Stop arguing with people if you arent able to take in and understand what they say

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Again not what i said. Learn to read please

Perhaps you shouldn't base your argument on debunked coal propaganda from a decade ago?

Wilkie calls out Australia “clean coal scam” that puts country’s reputation at stake

Independent MP Andrew Wilkie alleges “fraud” and “scam” over quality reports that suggested Australian coal was cleaner than it was.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Your reading comprehension is at a 2nd grade level. Stop arguing with people if you arent able to take in and understand what they say

Don't be abusive, your post was coal lobby rubbish and you don't understand basic science.

 

[Cap]

Don't be abusive, your post was coal lobby rubbish and you don't understand basic science.

What many of the children don't understand, if the we and many parts of the West hadn't had to fight our own anti science community, we could have been able to have a large influence in pushing controls on products produced by coal.

But nope, like always we've spend decades arguing with intellectual short people at the cost of progress.

 

[adogsfan5]

Not long to go, get moving Albo!