Politics Climate Change Paradox

Should we act now, or wait for a unified global approach


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Claude Balls

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Ok, you’ve never heard of discrediting the truth. Those who are brainwashed by the man made climate change propaganda don’t need any convincing. Just ask my Long Living Hawks friend.
I love the irony of people like you and sorted accusing those who accept that AGW is real of being ‘brainwashed’ and ‘ideologues’.

If you engage honestly with the issue, which is to say with an open mind, and think critically about it, you will believe that it is happening and we are (at least) the primary cause. It is the logical and rational standpoint, given the evidence.
 

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Ancient Tiger

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Whether climate change is man made or accelerated I want to live in a world which is unpolluted as much as humanly possible. This should be done in a phased in way as not to cost many people jobs and the ability to support their families. Young people right now should not go into fossil fuel type jobs. Look elsewhere.
 

Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
Whether climate change is man made or accelerated I want to live in a world which is unpolluted as much as humanly possible. This should be done in a phased in way as not to cost many people jobs and the ability to support their families. Young people right now should not go into fossil fuel type jobs. Look elsewhere.
This is basically inevitable.
 

fishardansin

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Big money jobs say that it is not that inevitable in the near future unfortunately..
The move to new technologies will generate economic growth. It pains me that many people see it as anything else. The only loss will be for people heavily invested in the fossil fuel industry.
 

Ancient Tiger

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The move to new technologies will generate economic growth. It pains me that many people see it as anything else. The only loss will be for people heavily invested in the fossil fuel industry.
You are arguing a different thing. When you have a several trillion dollar industry like the fossil fuel industry, they can continue to buy the best young minds away from the renewable energy sector.
Unfortunately, every person has their price.
 

sorted

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You are arguing a different thing. When you have a several trillion dollar industry like the fossil fuel industry, they can continue to buy the best young minds away from the renewable energy sector.
Unfortunately, every person has their price.
You seem to fail to realise that the renewables energy sector is also a a several trillion dollar industry. It has corrupted the science like nothing ever before.
 

Claude Balls

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You seem to fail to realise that the renewables energy sector is also a a several trillion dollar industry. It has corrupted the science like nothing ever before.
Let’s humour you for a moment and assume that the renewables sector has indeed managed to corrupt the science to some significant degree, on account of their vested interest.

Logically, if you assume this, wouldn’t you also assume that the the fossil fuel industry has managed to do the same, but to an even greater degree? After all they have just as strong a vested interested in the matter, and they are a significantly more powerful industry and lobby group.
 

Ancient Tiger

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Population growth is the single most important thing in climate change. More people, more CO2 exhaled. More foods are needed. More livestock means more methane emissions. More vehicles on the road. More power consumption. More deforestation. Bigger cities mean more heat sinks of concrete. And so on and so forth..............
 

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Claude Balls

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Population growth is the single most important thing in climate change. More people, more CO2 exhaled. More foods are needed. More livestock means more methane emissions. More vehicles on the road. More power consumption. More deforestation. Bigger cities mean more heat sinks of concrete. And so on and so forth..............
It is and it isn’t. It is in terms of historical significance, I.e. it has obviously been the single most telling factor since we industrialised. Yet it’s also the factor we are virtually powerless to do anything about, so is more or less irrelevant as a means to address the issue now.
 

sorted

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Let’s humour you for a moment and assume that the renewables sector has indeed managed to corrupt the science to some significant degree, on account of their vested interest.

Logically, if you assume this, wouldn’t you also assume that the the fossil fuel industry has managed to do the same, but to an even greater degree? After all they have just as strong a vested interested in the matter, and they are a significantly more powerful industry and lobby group.
I would say I made assertions not assumptions about the corrupting influence that the renewables sector (and the cult of global warming) has had on science. Assertions that can be backed up with evidence.

For example, Donna Laframboise's analysis of how the IPCC process works. Or Mark Steyn's book about Michael Mann's fraudulent Hockey Stick.

1546938144171.png


If you want to make assumptions about the influence the fossil fuel industry has had then go right ahead. But, logically, I would contest your argument that such assumptions lead to a conclusion that the fossil fuel industry has corrupted the science to a greater degree.
 

Long Live HFC

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I never said Mueller.

I said the investigation into Russian collusion in the 2016 election was an example [of the left going after the right for anything they can]
the purpose of an investigation is to prove or disprove an allegation; there were allegations serious enough (and not just from the Dems) to justify an investigation. i dont dispute that the dems pursued it with vigour, but there was enough smoke involved that some of the GOP were concerned with fire, too.
 

Tayl0r

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the purpose of an investigation is to prove or disprove an allegation; there were allegations serious enough (and not just from the Dems) to justify an investigation. i dont dispute that the dems pursued it with vigour, but there was enough smoke involved that some of the GOP were concerned with fire, too.
No doubt.

To me I think it will look like a police raid on your neighbour that broke the door down looking for drugs and guns, dragging them out in front of cameras, but ended up writing out fines for having the toilet paper the wrong way on the rollers.

The smear worked.
 

Long Live HFC

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No doubt.

To me I think it will look like a police raid on your neighbour that broke the door down looking for drugs and guns, dragging them out in front of cameras, but ended up writing out fines for having the toilet paper the wrong way on the rollers.

The smear worked.
ha, i don't mind the analogy. i'll wait until the finalisation of the investigation, though.
 

Long Live HFC

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You seem to fail to realise that the renewables energy sector is also a a several trillion dollar industry. It has corrupted the science like nothing ever before.
yeah, i bet the renewables industry had a huge impact on 19th century scientists who first suggested that an increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases would result in higher temperatures (all things being equal).
 

sorted

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yeah, i bet the renewables industry had a huge impact on 19th century scientists who first suggested that an increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases would result in higher temperatures (all things being equal).
I doubt it. The renewables industry and subsidies started in the late 20th century.

Have you got a chart of annual subsidies given to the renewables industry?
 

Claude Balls

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I would say I made assertions not assumptions about the corrupting influence that the renewables sector (and the cult of global warming) has had on science. Assertions that can be backed up with evidence.

For example, Donna Laframboise's analysis of how the IPCC process works. Or Mark Steyn's book about Michael Mann's fraudulent Hockey Stick.

View attachment 602648

If you want to make assumptions about the influence the fossil fuel industry has had then go right ahead. But, logically, I would contest your argument that such assumptions lead to a conclusion that the fossil fuel industry has corrupted the science to a greater degree.
Does Steyn’s book contain documents illustrating that Mann not only fudged his proxies, but was paid to do so by the renewables industry?

Does La Framboise demonstrate that the scientists whose reports the IPCC are using are funded by the renewables industry?

Something like the above would need to be the case for this to actually constitute evidence of your claim that the renewables sector is corrupting climate science.

As for contesting the claim that logically the fossil fuel industry would have a greater corrupting influence on climate science, given that a) they have an equal vested interest and b), they are a more powerful lobby group, please, let’s hear it.
 

armpit

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I'll reiterate.

They know it is the fact because they have been told it is the fact, they don't know the why.

Now I can't expect primary school teachers who can't differentiate they're, their or there on their Facebook posts to understand the issue in depth, but at least I acknowledge they are preaching the ideology and not the facts.

There is a difference between me saying the facts are wrong and that they aren't teaching the facts, they are teaching the ideology. I don't disagree with either the facts or the consensus, I do have an objection to ideological teaching I picked up from religious schools.

One is far more dangerous than the other.
Just wanted to say it was a privilege to read this. You definitely dug deeper.
 

armpit

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Population growth is the single most important thing in climate change. More people, more CO2 exhaled. More foods are needed. More livestock means more methane emissions. More vehicles on the road. More power consumption. More deforestation. Bigger cities mean more heat sinks of concrete. And so on and so forth..............
Exactly and so it seems to me that the only solution is for humanity to practice global conscious birth control to bring about a gentle decrease in populations over the generations. People will need to be provided with the means to practice birth control. Condoms and vasectomies and the like.
 

Long Live HFC

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If they're as big as you are saying, they wouldn't need subsidies......
haha yeah. it's obvious that renewables are a rapidly-growing industry, but a significant reason underpinning that growth is the world's acceptance that AGW is a thing. ie the science was first, well before the industry (so the exact opposite relationship that sorted suggested).
 
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