Politics Climate Change Paradox

Should we act now, or wait for a unified global approach


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fyfe > dangerfield
Jul 30, 2018
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We'll have to agree to disagree completely on this point. World leaders can absolutely do more.
If they are 'powerless', they aren't world leaders.
We’ve had 30 years of politics attempting to solve the problem. They’ve changed nothing. The solution isn’t more politics.
 

Corpuscles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
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It's telling that her opponents rarely talk about the message, rather attack her personally. Just a glance at the last few pages tells a tale.
You seem to be a supporter?

Lets talk about her message

Are you planning to become a vegan? and insist the entire world does also?
Refuse to fly in any aircraft in future?
All ought sail across seas instead.
Are converting to completely electric vehicle and or transport options? Despite unavailable charging stations.
Giving up work to become an activist?
You believe Government's should do "something" more!? ( a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens)
You think school aged children are best equipped to deal with and guide on the issue?

Thought not!

PS Thanks for the info that indeed her parents did seek medical assistance. my BAD!
Acknowledged and read.
 

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Mofra

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Dec 6, 2005
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You seem to be a supporter?

Lets talk about her message

Are you planning to become a vegan? and insist the entire world does also?
Refuse to fly in any aircraft in future?
All ought sail across seas instead.
Are converting to completely electric vehicle and or transport options? Despite unavailable charging stations.
Giving up work to become an activist?
You believe Government's should do "something" more!? ( a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens)
You think school aged children are best equipped to deal with and guide on the issue?

Thought not!

PS Thanks for the info that indeed her parents did seek medical assistance. my BAD!
Acknowledged and read.
I'm an incrementalist not an absolutist, and that list above is a ridiculous framing of the issue.

This comment is an interesting one though: "a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens".
Why do you think taking action of climate change has to come at an economic cost?

For mine there is a lot we could do that would be beneficial to both the environment and the bottom line (e.g. cutting fossil fuel subsidies, prioritising the use of water resources for food production over water-intensive industries and mining, isng low-carbon technology to process our raw minerals in Australia than bulk transporting ore, etc).

We have little economic security right now on the back of our two biggest exports being bulk unprocessed material exports. We're taking a huge economic risk by being so stuck in the past.
 

Mofra

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Dec 6, 2005
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We’ve had 30 years of politics attempting to solve the problem. They’ve changed nothing. The solution isn’t more politics.
Again I disagree. We've had 30 years of politics avoiding and obfuscating the issue, save for a minority.
That's not what you said though. You said world leaders were powerless. On that point, I disagree.
 

Corpuscles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
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QUOTE="Mofra, post: 64111064, member: 21665"


I'm an incrementalist not an absolutist, and that list above is a ridiculous framing of the issue.

I agree it is ridiculous. However you were not addressing "the issue" but rather specifically Greta's message.
It is a fair representation of such !. I urge you to watch the vid you posted again (or thoroughly) when time permits.
She was asked specific questions.


This comment is an interesting one though: "a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens".
Why do you think taking action of climate change has to come at an economic cost?

All change involves a cost or at least an investment. Radical ratbag demands (eg eliminate coal export, convert to entirely renewable, etc) involve cost and revenue loss and displaced workers, the demands mean large workforces need to be retrained and new industries developed.
Yes, incrementally it can /might be done but only so long as the return on investment restores incrementally a equal or positive outcome and replaces export revenue.



For mine there is a lot we could do that would be beneficial to both the environment and the bottom line (e.g. cutting fossil fuel subsidies, prioritising the use of water resources for food production over water-intensive industries and mining, isng low-carbon technology to process our raw minerals in Australia than bulk transporting ore, etc).

This all requires investment which involves to Australia committing to long term increased debt.
They are worthy good ideas. However, when the ore is processed in our factories it has to be competitive on the world stage (China way ahead of the world now and cheap oppressed workforce),Exactly how do we ship / distribute ALL the final product overseas? On a sailing boat or electric solar panelled cargo vessel?


We have little economic security right now on the back of our two biggest exports being bulk unprocessed material exports. We're taking a huge economic risk by being so stuck in the past.

Welcome to Australia! It was mainly riding on the sheep's back, then a gold rush, then wheat and wool, then mining and tourism. It all takes investment funds.

Yes investment funds ought be gathered for such investment in developing and marketing new technology.
The best place to start, is all those fanatics willing to sacrifice their lifestyle to contribute because they want to address a vague, unclear at present, impending Climate change "emergency" which none of the global superpowers or emerging ones, are doing much to change the real source of the global problem.
 

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fyfe > dangerfield
Jul 30, 2018
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Again I disagree. We've had 30 years of politics avoiding and obfuscating the issue, save for a minority.
That's not what you said though. You said world leaders were powerless. On that point, I disagree.
They are. Anything instituted in one country would simply be reversed in another because the technology remains the same.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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I'm an incrementalist not an absolutist, and that list above is a ridiculous framing of the issue.

This comment is an interesting one though: "a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens".
Why do you think taking action of climate change has to come at an economic cost?

For mine there is a lot we could do that would be beneficial to both the environment and the bottom line (e.g. cutting fossil fuel subsidies, prioritising the use of water resources for food production over water-intensive industries and mining, isng low-carbon technology to process our raw minerals in Australia than bulk transporting ore, etc).

We have little economic security right now on the back of our two biggest exports being bulk unprocessed material exports. We're taking a huge economic risk by being so stuck in the past.
Complete twaddle. The real risk is to massively change our economy, that has been based on things that have been proven to be beneficial for the economic welfare of our citizens, being replaced by untested technologies based on ideology/voodoo.
 

Hawk_francais

Club Legend
Sep 20, 2015
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Complete twaddle. The real risk is to massively change our economy, that has been based on things that have been proven to be beneficial for the economic welfare of our citizens, being replaced by untested technologies based on ideology/voodoo.
What do you consider to be risk?

I would say altering the climate of our planet is a greater risk than changing the economy. Do you disagree?
 

Kwality

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Aug 14, 2011
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Greta Thunberg strikes again! This topical discussion is an excellent reminder of who is really about the science and who is really about the politics.
Are these groups about imposing their views to win an argument, because we need to work out a solution. Anyone?
 

Deliverance

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 19, 2011
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Complete twaddle. The real risk is to massively change our economy, that has been based on things that have been proven to be beneficial for the economic welfare of our citizens, being replaced by untested technologies based on ideology/voodoo.
I'd say the risk is missing out financially as the giant players make shitloads of money creating the new tech.
 

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romeohwho

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2015
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It's telling that her opponents rarely talk about the message, rather attack her personally. Just a glance at the last few pages tells a tale.
Ah yep-every single time. None of them ever discuss the science -presumably because she has them covered!
 

Corpuscles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
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What do you consider to be risk?

I would say altering the climate of our planet is a greater risk than changing the economy. Do you disagree?
How much or easily can Australia change its climate? or it's economy?
Answer : very little

I am glad you dropped in, as you have been a vocal advocate for reducing or even eradicating coal exports !

Now regardless of what your school teacher told you? Here are some facts to study.

Australia produced 449 million short tons (MMst) of coal in 2010—about 40% of U.S. production—making Australia the world's fourth-largest coal producer, after China, the United States, and India. But Australia is the world's largest coal exporter, exporting about 70% of its coal production or nearly 300 MMst in 2010. Australia accounted for almost one-third of bituminous coal exports worldwide in 2010; a large share of this coal consisted of coking coal used for steel manufacture.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=4050

(Emphasis mine to help you)

Edit: Can you imagine a world without steel?
No solar panels or wind turbines no....(complete the rest...)
 

romeohwho

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2015
9,245
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Geelong
You seem to be a supporter?

Lets talk about her message

Are you planning to become a vegan? and insist the entire world does also?
Refuse to fly in any aircraft in future?
All ought sail across seas instead.
Are converting to completely electric vehicle and or transport options? Despite unavailable charging stations.
Giving up work to become an activist?
You believe Government's should do "something" more!? ( a higher priority than economic welfare of citizens)
You think school aged children are best equipped to deal with and guide on the issue?

Thought not!

PS Thanks for the info that indeed her parents did seek medical assistance. my BAD!
Acknowledged and read.
No need to do all those things in one day but yep, everyone adopting those first 4 measures would be a very big help. That’s the future-get on board Corpy.
The school children I am hearing are way ahead of the government and many posters on this board, so yep, bring em on.
 

Corpuscles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
7,815
618
AFL Club
Sydney
No need to do all those things in one day but yep, everyone adopting those first 4 measures would be a very big help. That’s the future-get on board Corpy.
The school children I am hearing are way ahead of the government and many posters on this board, so yep, bring em on.
LOL! It is difficult to know who is serious, and who is just takin' the piss!?

I can guarantee you that future will never occur! Definitely NOT in my lifetime , and unlikely yours (unless catastrophe like nuclear war or asteroid strike sends humans back to the stone age). So, Nothin' to get on board of!

.. and why aren't you at school!? Are you having a 'protest day' wag 'sit in' outside the Geelong Town Hall?:):cool:

Edit: there is a slim to maybe good chance of point 4. Just to cheer you up a bit!
 

romeohwho

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2015
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LOL! It is difficult to know who is serious, and who is just takin' the piss!?

I can guarantee you that future will never occur! Definitely NOT in my lifetime , and unlikely yours (unless catastrophe like nuclear war or asteroid strike sends humans back to the stone age). So, Nothin' to get on board of!

.. and why aren't you at school!? Are you having a 'protest day' wag 'sit in' outside the Geelong Town Hall?:):cool:

Edit: there is a slim to maybe good chance of point 4. Just to cheer you up a bit!
Nope I can see you tucking into the vegan burger. You will love it. Chia seeds, tofu- you will be wrapt -i can see it now.
Pretty sure you can’t actually ‘guarantee’ anything that might occur in the future, but big changes are more likely than not I’d have thought. Current set up is not sustainable.
Haha the last student you lot told to go back to school instead of attending climate change rallies, aced the VCE of course.
 

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fyfe > dangerfield
Jul 30, 2018
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Complete twaddle. The real risk is to massively change our economy, that has been based on things that have been proven to be beneficial for the economic welfare of our citizens, being replaced by untested technologies based on ideology/voodoo.
There is no real risk to the economy being changed. You’re a complete alarmist in this regard as much as Extinction Rebellion
 

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fyfe > dangerfield
Jul 30, 2018
10,137
12,550
AFL Club
Fremantle
Again I disagree. We've had 30 years of politics avoiding and obfuscating the issue, save for a minority.
That's not what you said though. You said world leaders were powerless. On that point, I disagree.
What more do believe could be done? Which country is first mover? The US? Maybe they decarbonise their economy ... and then the steel mills go to China. Or India. Or Brazil.

You studied economics didn’t you? This is one of those classic prisoners dilemma situations where working together benefits you slightly collectively, but going alone against the wishes of the others can benefit you enormously. World leaders are powerless.
 
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Snake_Baker

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Apr 24, 2013
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I find the attempts to understand the ocean interesting (putting on my first year uni oceanography hat). It's an incredibly difficult and complex system to try and measure though. If measurements are being conducted the same way in the same locations they can start to form some semblance of a picture over years of study on at least a localised basis.
Indeed. You also appear to understand the levels of complexity involved in the measurements.

The ocean + sun = the overwhelming majority of "climate"
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
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And also how hard they go at her. Like, she threatens them on a basic, primal level.
..................anyway.............climate science.................whenever you're ready...................

...........Bolt............Murdoch................Thunberg................Morrison...............but no ****ing "climate science" from you....................EVER.
 

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