Opinion Climate change

[mic59]

So so off topic now but strapping tape, denying climate change at this point is like denying evolution. Or gravity. The only people that do it either have a vested interest or are being tricked by someone with a vested interest.

People in the main don't deny climate change. What is denied is that a micro change such as the recent run of hot weather is proof positive that we are in a new age of hot weather. And that man has had more than a minimal affect on the climate. There have been cases where the weather in a certain area was affected by man, the smog in London in the 1950s was one although as all weather that had a great deal to do with nature as well. We could have had the pollution London had then but we would not have smog as we do not have heavy and persistent fog.

And as for vested interests, well the biggest vested interests we have seen here has been from Julia Gillard who got herself into bed with the greens and hit us with a wholly useless carbon tax. If anyone has ever demonstrated one thing the carbon tax has done for us other than increase gas and electricity prices, I am yet to see it.

 

[Lou Zyffer]

People in the main don't deny climate change. What is denied is that a micro change such as the recent run of hot weather is proof positive that we are in a new age of hot weather. And that man has had more than a minimal affect on the climate. There have been cases where the weather in a certain area was affected by man, the smog in London in the 1950s was one although as all weather that had a great deal to do with nature as well. We could have had the pollution London had then but we would not have smog as we do not have heavy and persistent fog.

And as for vested interests, well the biggest vested interests we have seen here has been from Julia Gillard who got herself into bed with the greens and hit us with a wholly useless carbon tax. If anyone has ever demonstrated one thing the carbon tax has done for us other than increase gas and electricity prices, I am yet to see it.

While Joolya's tax may have added a little to our power bills Mick the overwhelming increases are due to higher demand from China in particular for coal and greedy retailers. Put a public institution in to private hands and we're told it'll be good for us because of "competition". Biggest crock of crap sold to a gullible/apathetic public ever. The number one objective of a private company is profit because without profit there is no investment and no growth in said company. The government could do the same thing and as long as they broke even we'd all be better of. Jobs for Aussies instead of foreigners in overseas call centres and lower energy prices. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Of course we couldn't do it now because the governments both state and federal have sold all the assets, burned all the cash and we couldn't afford to buy them back anyway.

It's like selling your car and using the money to pay for taxis everywhere to save money on petrol.

 

[GranFormaggi]

While Joolya's tax may have added a little to our power bills Mick the overwhelming increases are due to higher demand from China in particular for coal and greedy retailers. Put a public institution in to private hands and we're told it'll be good for us because of "competition". Biggest crock of crap sold to a gullible/apathetic public ever. The number one objective of a private company is profit because without profit there is no investment and no growth in said company. The government could do the same thing and as long as they broke even we'd all be better of. Jobs for Aussies instead of foreigners in overseas call centres and lower energy prices. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Of course we couldn't do it now because the governments both state and federal have sold all the assets, burned all the cash and we couldn't afford to buy them back anyway.

It's like selling your car and using the money to pay for taxis everywhere to save money on petrol.

Yes the market failure that is the National Electricity Market and Retail Electricity Competition is an absolute disgrace!! I don't even know if we are protected in the long run. There was supposed to be an advantage to taxpayers by removing assets requiring significant capital investment and upgrades, however as has been found in other jurisdictions privateers then go and increase prices to cover this cost and slug the consumers (aka taxpayers) anyway. If at any point their business model fails, the government needs to step in and bail them out to continue to provide a public service. We when through this Reagan/Thatcher-nomics, divesting ourselves of public assets, convinced the private sector could do things better.

Alternatives approaches result in situations such as Germany's Deutsche Bahn, privately running and slugging UK rail travellers to subsidise a better and cheaper service in Germany.

 

[Peck]

While Joolya's tax may have added a little to our power bills Mick the overwhelming increases are due to higher demand from China in particular for coal and greedy retailers. Put a public institution in to private hands and we're told it'll be good for us because of "competition". Biggest crock of crap sold to a gullible/apathetic public ever. The number one objective of a private company is profit because without profit there is no investment and no growth in said company. The government could do the same thing and as long as they broke even we'd all be better of. Jobs for Aussies instead of foreigners in overseas call centres and lower energy prices. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Of course we couldn't do it now because the governments both state and federal have sold all the assets, burned all the cash and we couldn't afford to buy them back anyway.

It's like selling your car and using the money to pay for taxis everywhere to save money on petrol.

Yeah we have way over-privatised, and Abbot just wants to go even further. The ABC, the AIS and anything else that isn't bolted down.

 

[Relativity]

Yeah we have way over-privatised, and Abbot just wants to go even further. The ABC, the AIS and anything else that isn't bolted down.

Would be interested for any links to support this assertion.

 

[Peck]

Would be interested for any links to support this assertion.

The only "evidence" I have is this leaked agenda from a fundraising dinner. http://blog.getup.org.au/2013/04/09/campaign-update-a-sign-of-things-to-come/

However, I can't really trust that source (though given some of the stuff on that list has already happened, maybe I can). Honestly it just comes from having met people who are like Tony Abbot, and knowing that their ideologies support privatisation of government assets very strongly.

 

[Corby_says]

Climate Change, IMO this is undeniable fact, why else would they have it at the end of the news every day..

 

[raptalia]

As a matter of record.

In the past 12-month period a large number of mean temperature records have fallen across Australia including:

• Australia’s warmest month on record (January)
• Australia’s warmest September on record
• Australia’s largest positive monthly anomaly on record (September)
• Australia’s warmest summer on record (December 2012 to February 2013)
• Australia’s warmest January to September period on record
• Australia’s warmest 12-month period on record (broken twice, for the periods ending August and September)
• Indeed, Australia’s warmest period on record for all periods 1 to 18 months long ending September 2013

Two significant daily maximum temperature records were also set this year:

• Australia’s hottest summer day on record (7 January)
• Australia’s warmest winter day on record (31 August)

Look at the temperature graphs from 1910 onward and you will find that Australia's temp anomaly has been increasing and is now 2.5C above the 1910 mean. I guess we can all deny it is happening but it is happening. Why it is happening may be a matter for debate but the planet is warming.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a005-sep-2013-warmest-on-record.shtml[/url}

 

[Catters 070911]

Maybe they don't want climate change skeptics writing in their paper because they want to report news and not crazed ramblings from the mentally ill.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you is "mentally ill"?

Arrogant much!

 

[El_Scorcho]

So anyone who doesn't agree with you is "mentally ill"?

Arrogant much!

Ok boomer

 

[Catters 070911]

Ok boomer

Ok millenial idiot!

 

[TeeKray]

Quality bump.

 

[Del165198]

So anyone who doesn't agree with you is "mentally ill"?

Arrogant much!

Anyone who doesn't accept anthropogenic climate change is mentally ill, yes.

Now piss off back to the boomers board.

 

[Catters 070911]

Anyone who doesn't accept anthropogenic climate change is mentally ill, yes.

Now piss off back to the boomers board.

I never said that I doubt climate change.

I do question whether it is man-made or not, or how and when it will happen.

If climate change is man-made, then how do you believe that dinosaurs became extinct. Many theories involve a changing environment (thus, climate change) yet humans aren't believed to have been around when the dinosaurs died.

Also, what caused tectonic plates to shift? Wasn't it erosion? Doesn't environment and weather play a part?

All I am saying is, climate change has ALWAYS happened, since the dawn of time. It is a natural occurence, and natural disasters and other climatic events have been pointed to by scientists (and remember, you believe EVERYTHING that scientists tell you) by changes in weather and enviroment, and this has been happening since year dot. So, while it is real, I doubt that it is all man-made, and we are limited to how much we can do to stop a natural phenomenon.

Also, why are we only hearing about it now? I don't remember hearing people in past centuries worrying about it, or what they are leaving us. Also, none of us will be here by the time it happens anyway.

I don't know, it smacks of how we were all supposed to die of a nuclear holocaust in the 80's, and there were protests in the street about that. There was the Y2K scare. The media have to create new "scare" campaigns to keep people in a constant state of panic, so that they can pretend to offer solutions if you buy their paper or watch their news program.

Also, Galileo and Christopher Columbus have proven that scientists don't know everything.

Scientists thought the earth was flat as well. Why believe them on climate change, when they were proven wrong on that? Maybe their time would be better spent finally finding cures for all the cancers in the world (something that would benefit us TODAY) rather than something that won't affect us in our lifetime.

Also, if we are all going to die, then how about people start being nicer to one another. When someone thinks they are going to die, they usually treat people better, and resolve past feuds. Yet for people who think we are all going to die, you call me names and tell me to piss off, all because I don't agree with you. Shouldn't you try to be more understanding on your last days on earth, if it is coming to an end, rather than abuse people?

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Oh dear

 

[FishingRick04]

It's real, it's friggen hot and I suspect soon we will live 11 km under the surface where we will find all the mythical creatures and Aliens

 

[Eddie Dingle]

It's real, it's friggen hot and I suspect soon we will live 11 km under the surface where we will find all the mythical creatures and Aliens

And the secret to Keith Richards eternal life

 

[Del165198]

I never said that I doubt climate change.

I do question whether it is man-made or not, or how and when it will happen.

If climate change is man-made, then how do you believe that dinosaurs became extinct. Many theories involve a changing environment (thus, climate change) yet humans aren't believed to have been around when the dinosaurs died.

Also, what caused tectonic plates to shift? Wasn't it erosion? Doesn't environment and weather play a part?

All I am saying is, climate change has ALWAYS happened, since the dawn of time. It is a natural occurence, and natural disasters and other climatic events have been pointed to by scientists (and remember, you believe EVERYTHING that scientists tell you) by changes in weather and enviroment, and this has been happening since year dot. So, while it is real, I doubt that it is all man-made, and we are limited to how much we can do to stop a natural phenomenon.

Also, why are we only hearing about it now? I don't remember hearing people in past centuries worrying about it, or what they are leaving us. Also, none of us will be here by the time it happens anyway.

I don't know, it smacks of how we were all supposed to die of a nuclear holocaust in the 80's, and there were protests in the street about that. There was the Y2K scare. The media have to create new "scare" campaigns to keep people in a constant state of panic, so that they can pretend to offer solutions if you buy their paper or watch their news program.

Also, Galileo and Christopher Columbus have proven that scientists don't know everything.

Scientists thought the earth was flat as well. Why believe them on climate change, when they were proven wrong on that? Maybe their time would be better spent finally finding cures for all the cancers in the world (something that would benefit us TODAY) rather than something that won't affect us in our lifetime.

Also, if we are all going to die, then how about people start being nicer to one another. When someone thinks they are going to die, they usually treat people better, and resolve past feuds. Yet for people who think we are all going to die, you call me names and tell me to piss off, all because I don't agree with you. Shouldn't you try to be more understanding on your last days on earth, if it is coming to an end, rather than abuse people?

 

[Catters 070911]

Is that Piers Morgan?

 

[Del165198]

Nah

 

[philthy05]

I never said that I doubt climate change.

I do question whether it is man-made or not, or how and when it will happen.

If climate change is man-made, then how do you believe that dinosaurs became extinct. Many theories involve a changing environment (thus, climate change) yet humans aren't believed to have been around when the dinosaurs died.

Also, what caused tectonic plates to shift? Wasn't it erosion? Doesn't environment and weather play a part?

All I am saying is, climate change has ALWAYS happened, since the dawn of time. It is a natural occurence, and natural disasters and other climatic events have been pointed to by scientists (and remember, you believe EVERYTHING that scientists tell you) by changes in weather and enviroment, and this has been happening since year dot. So, while it is real, I doubt that it is all man-made, and we are limited to how much we can do to stop a natural phenomenon.

Also, why are we only hearing about it now? I don't remember hearing people in past centuries worrying about it, or what they are leaving us. Also, none of us will be here by the time it happens anyway.

I don't know, it smacks of how we were all supposed to die of a nuclear holocaust in the 80's, and there were protests in the street about that. There was the Y2K scare. The media have to create new "scare" campaigns to keep people in a constant state of panic, so that they can pretend to offer solutions if you buy their paper or watch their news program.

Also, Galileo and Christopher Columbus have proven that scientists don't know everything.

Scientists thought the earth was flat as well. Why believe them on climate change, when they were proven wrong on that? Maybe their time would be better spent finally finding cures for all the cancers in the world (something that would benefit us TODAY) rather than something that won't affect us in our lifetime.

Also, if we are all going to die, then how about people start being nicer to one another. When someone thinks they are going to die, they usually treat people better, and resolve past feuds. Yet for people who think we are all going to die, you call me names and tell me to piss off, all because I don't agree with you. Shouldn't you try to be more understanding on your last days on earth, if it is coming to an end, rather than abuse people?

this isn’t even a rational argument

The past climate change happened over vast periods of time, not as quick as it’s happening now.

How you’ve put 1+1 and gotten 58473 is beyond comprehension.

what even is your tectonic plates and hey that scientist was wrong 200 years ago argument

What has this got to do with y2k? They’re not even similar or related? also nuclear holocaust in the 80’s? Again, how was two superpowers hovering over nuclear launch buttons related to this?

Are we just hearing about this now? I mean it was theorised in the late 1800’s. Made news in the 50’s. Was brought to the attention of the US senate in the 80’s and a famous doco released about it in 2006.

but we’re apparently just “hearing” about this now according to you?

And what the **** is this argument that scientists should be curing cancer instead of worrying about climate change?

like all the scientists in the world are only doing one thing? What in the actual **** is this argument and how do you manage to safely brush your teeth without injuring yourself.

 

[Powerade 08]

I never said that I doubt climate change.

I do question whether it is man-made or not, or how and when it will happen.

If climate change is man-made, then how do you believe that dinosaurs became extinct. Many theories involve a changing environment (thus, climate change) yet humans aren't believed to have been around when the dinosaurs died.

Also, what caused tectonic plates to shift? Wasn't it erosion? Doesn't environment and weather play a part?

All I am saying is, climate change has ALWAYS happened, since the dawn of time. It is a natural occurence, and natural disasters and other climatic events have been pointed to by scientists (and remember, you believe EVERYTHING that scientists tell you) by changes in weather and enviroment, and this has been happening since year dot. So, while it is real, I doubt that it is all man-made, and we are limited to how much we can do to stop a natural phenomenon.

Also, why are we only hearing about it now? I don't remember hearing people in past centuries worrying about it, or what they are leaving us. Also, none of us will be here by the time it happens anyway.

I don't know, it smacks of how we were all supposed to die of a nuclear holocaust in the 80's, and there were protests in the street about that. There was the Y2K scare. The media have to create new "scare" campaigns to keep people in a constant state of panic, so that they can pretend to offer solutions if you buy their paper or watch their news program.

Also, Galileo and Christopher Columbus have proven that scientists don't know everything.

Scientists thought the earth was flat as well. Why believe them on climate change, when they were proven wrong on that? Maybe their time would be better spent finally finding cures for all the cancers in the world (something that would benefit us TODAY) rather than something that won't affect us in our lifetime.

Also, if we are all going to die, then how about people start being nicer to one another. When someone thinks they are going to die, they usually treat people better, and resolve past feuds. Yet for people who think we are all going to die, you call me names and tell me to piss off, all because I don't agree with you. Shouldn't you try to be more understanding on your last days on earth, if it is coming to an end, rather than abuse people?

Omg, that’s so true.

 

[Catters 070911]

this isn’t even a rational argument

The past climate change happened over vast periods of time, not as quick as it’s happening now.

How you’ve put 1+1 and gotten 58473 is beyond comprehension.

what even is your tectonic plates and hey that scientist was wrong 200 years ago argument

What has this got to do with y2k? They’re not even similar or related? also nuclear holocaust in the 80’s? Again, how was two superpowers hovering over nuclear launch buttons related to this?

Are we just hearing about this now? I mean it was theorised in the late 1800’s. Made news in the 50’s. Was brought to the attention of the US senate in the 80’s and a famous doco released about it in 2006.

but we’re apparently just “hearing” about this now according to you?

And what the fu** is this argument that scientists should be curing cancer instead of worrying about climate change?

like all the scientists in the world are only doing one thing? What in the actual fu** is this argument and how do you manage to safely brush your teeth without injuring yourself.

You say that this isn't a rational argument, yet you haven't rationally refuted even one of my points.

If my points are so stupid, you should have no problems in proving me wrong.

Instead, you just dismissing them without discussion smacks of sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and pretending that it will all go away.

 

[Catters 070911]

this isn’t even a rational argument

The past climate change happened over vast periods of time, not as quick as it’s happening now.

How you’ve put 1+1 and gotten 58473 is beyond comprehension.

what even is your tectonic plates and hey that scientist was wrong 200 years ago argument

What has this got to do with y2k? They’re not even similar or related? also nuclear holocaust in the 80’s? Again, how was two superpowers hovering over nuclear launch buttons related to this?

Are we just hearing about this now? I mean it was theorised in the late 1800’s. Made news in the 50’s. Was brought to the attention of the US senate in the 80’s and a famous doco released about it in 2006.

but we’re apparently just “hearing” about this now according to you?

And what the fu** is this argument that scientists should be curing cancer instead of worrying about climate change?

like all the scientists in the world are only doing one thing? What in the actual fu** is this argument and how do you manage to safely brush your teeth without injuring yourself.

Okay, let me explain this.

Referring to past climate change proves that climate change is not only MAN-MADE, which is the opposite to what many climate change advocates say.

It also shows that it is a natural occurence, and we are limited to what we can do to stop it, like we are limited to stopping natural disasters occuring around the world.

What my argument has to do with nuclear war and Y2K is that, I am old enough to remember the whole "nuclear fear" of the 80's, and it was EXACTLY like this. The same arguments, the same protests (and, unlike, climate change, which will kill future generations, since we will all be long gone before it "wipes out the world", nuclear war could wipe out the world in a matter of days).

Yet, what happened? You never hear about it now, despite neither USA or Russia getting rid of their nuclear weapons. North Korea are testing nuclear weapons, and no-one even raises an eyebrow.

Y2K, the same thing. All the hype was that it would destroy the world, by having planes drop out of the sky, machines not working etc. It was talked about like it was the end of civilisation. All computers were meant to go haywire, and send us into darkness.

Yet, what happened? NOTHING! Again, it was a "scare campaign", which, when it happened, turned out to be hype.

Maybe people can only cry "wolf" so many times. Based on the past, why will this be any different? It looks more like an excuse for lefties to find another reason to skip work to protest.

Media outlets build up these issues, and give voice to cranks, to create fear in society, so that they can have society eating out of their hand.

Besides, a lot of the main advocates are hypocrites. How did Al Gore get to his speaking engagements, when promoting "The Convienient Truth"? By a rowboat? No, by plane, which pours out heaps of ruinous gas into the atmosphere.

If more practiced what they preached, and I can see evidence in it in their lifestyle, even to the point of sacrifice, I might admire their passion and even get on board, but while Leonardo DiCaprio and other celebrities board planes and continue to live like they normally do, but then tell the rest of us to change our daily lives, I think I will continue to live the same way, thank you very much. I put recyclables in the recycle bin. I do my part.

The flat earth mention shows that scientists aren't ALWAYS right. So, if they got that wrong, then whose to say that they aren't wrong about this as well. It is up to them to prove their analysis, not up to us to swallow it, hook, line and sinker, because they have a degree and a lab coat.

Also, my point is about curing cancer is that this is something that would benefit people now, today. Why focus on something that won't happen for hundreds of years, when there are people dying now, from a terminal disease? Besides, they ask for all this money for research, and we have yet to see a cure for even ONE form of cancer. We need to expect more bang for our buck, and tell them to focus on what they can change today, and spend our money better, and not worry about something that might occur when they are long gone from this earth. I bet if he or she had a relative dying from cancer, that scientist would suddenly change their focus.

So, argue against these points, if you can. If my points are invalid, then you should have no problems shooting them down. But your response is just to dismiss any argument opposed to your "narrow-minded" view.

 

[Catters 070911]

People in the main don't deny climate change. What is denied is that a micro change such as the recent run of hot weather is proof positive that we are in a new age of hot weather. And that man has had more than a minimal affect on the climate. There have been cases where the weather in a certain area was affected by man, the smog in London in the 1950s was one although as all weather that had a great deal to do with nature as well. We could have had the pollution London had then but we would not have smog as we do not have heavy and persistent fog.

And as for vested interests, well the biggest vested interests we have seen here has been from Julia Gillard who got herself into bed with the greens and hit us with a wholly useless carbon tax. If anyone has ever demonstrated one thing the carbon tax has done for us other than increase gas and electricity prices, I am yet to see it.

In Melbourne, we have had three days over 30 in December, which is lower than usual. Also, Melbourne don't seem to have the bushfires and heat that NSW and QLD do, and have more rain.

Maybe climate change skipped Melbourne and Tasmania.