Opinion clogged: "Mundy, not a leader?"

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Sep 4, 2004
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Last year is last year.

If Mundy looked cooked last night then he's looked cooked for most of the year. Barely strung together four quarters of footy in any game and had a number of games where he has been missing.

Compare last year's coaches votes to this year's to see his drop off in performance. And both finals he may as well not have bothered.

I was replying to the title of this thread.

I'd suggest that as a 30 year old who has been part of our leadership group since 2010 of what has been a pretty successful team as of late he has been a pretty good leader at our club.

Snipers gonna snipe.
 

clogged

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I was replying to the title of this thread.

I'd suggest that as a 30 year old who has been part of our leadership group since 2010 of what has been a pretty successful team as of late he has been a pretty good leader at our club.

Snipers gonna snipe.
Take it however you like. People cite his third quarter in the GF. No one seems to have asked "where was he the first half?"

These quarter efforts at a time have extended into the current season.
 

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Hill gets tagged what's Mundy's excuse?

So does his brother. It is widely recognised that his brother is now more consistent than him. Hill is a great player for us but he is most certainly not known for his consistency.

If you judge Mundy by that then Hill must be judged the same.

Take it however you like. People cite his third quarter in the GF. No one seems to have asked "where was he the first half?"

These quarter efforts at a time have extended into the current season.

So Mundy was the lone ranger as far as a patchy non-four quarter effort goes over the course of this year? Name a player that you would hold up as a consistent 4 quarter player for us this year? That was our problem.

Criticise the team, the game plan, whatever but scape goating a player when its clearly been a team problem all year is a snipe imo. An easy call to make after a loss like that but doesn't mean that its correct.
 

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So Mundy was the lone ranger as far as a patchy non-four quarter effort goes over the course of this year? Name a player that you would hold up as a consistent 4 quarter player for us this year? That was our problem.

Fyfe, Mzungu, Dawson, Johnson, Hill, Sandilands and Ballantyne all had substantially more impact for the team than Mundy did. Even Walters played more great games out of fewer overall games than Mundy.

If this was going to be Freo's year he had to bring it every week. What's his reason for not doing so?

Criticise the team, the game plan, whatever but scape goating a player when its clearly been a team problem all year is a snipe imo. An easy call to make after a loss like that but doesn't mean that its correct.
I've been worried about Mundy's form all year. It hasn't been up to scratch. I thought he might step up come finals. Instead he played an ordinary game of footy.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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Fyfe, Mzungu, Dawson, Johnson, Hill, Sandilands and Ballantyne all had substantially more impact for the team than Mundy did. Even Walters played more great games out of fewer overall games than Mundy.

So can you answer my questions?

So Mundy was the lone ranger as far as a patchy non-four quarter effort goes over the course of this year? Name a player that you would hold up as a consistent 4 quarter player for us this year? That was our problem.

You didn't. If Ballas and Hill are two examples of your shining lights of 4 quarter consistency then there lies our problem.

I've been worried about Mundy's form all year. It hasn't been up to scratch. I thought he might step up come finals. Instead he played an ordinary game of footy.

Fair enough. I just don't think he was not alone and he is still more than handy on the field and is still a leader of our team. You could start 7 or 8 of these threads after last night.
 

clogged

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You didn't. If Ballas and Hill are two examples of your shining lights of 4 quarter consistency then there lies our problem.
Those two received more coaches votes than Mundy despite playing fewer games. They were more influential in more games than Mundy. This is despite both of them having serious work put into them by opposition coaches - both receive tags/defenders dedicated to stopping them. Ballantyne was nominated by Freo players for the AFLPA MVP, Mundy wasn't.

Mundy had a handful of games where he was among the best five on ground. That's a pass mark, but for the most senior midfielder that's not good enough.
 
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Those two received more coaches votes than Mundy despite playing fewer games. They were more influential in more games than Mundy. This is despite both of them having serious work put into them by opposition coaches - both receive tags/defenders dedicated to stopping them. Ballantyne was nominated by Freo players for the AFLPA MVP, Mundy wasn't.

Mundy had a handful of games where he was among the best five on ground. That's a pass mark, but for the most senior midfielder that's not good enough.

OK, I've had a think and I sort of see where you're coming from.

Is this thread about "Mundy will start to regress from now on due to his age and really we should be looking for new midfielders to replace him over time" or is it "Mundy not a leader".

They are clearly two different topics.

Dal Santo at North is not their best mid but he's bloody handy for them. His days of contesting to be All Australian are over but I'm sure he would be seen a leader at North. There's 6 months difference between Same with guys like Goodes at Sydney or Kornes at Port. That's what Mundy will be in three years time. He'll still be a prime mover for us but the fact that Neale is improving and Mundy is more than likely going to be solid if not spectacular from here on in is not a negative. It shows we are a good organisation in that a replacement is in the wings.

It doesn't mean Mundy's not a leader but if we are to stay near the top of the ladder over the next few years Mundy needs to be replaced just as much as Sandi, McPharlin and Pav do.
 

The Black Sheep

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He won't be capable of that ever.

The midfield should be based around Fyfe, Hill, Barlow and Neale. Mundy should play a defensive role, or something less critical. Because he is not a workhorse and goes missing far too much for someone who plays a crucial position.
Maybe swing him to half back and bring Sutty onto a wing. Ditch Danyle Pearce and have Morra as an inside mid.
 

The Black Sheep

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So does his brother. It is widely recognised that his brother is now more consistent than him. Hill is a great player for us but he is most certainly not known for his consistency.

If you judge Mundy by that then Hill must be judged the same.



So Mundy was the lone ranger as far as a patchy non-four quarter effort goes over the course of this year? Name a player that you would hold up as a consistent 4 quarter player for us this year? That was our problem.

Criticise the team, the game plan, whatever but scape goating a player when its clearly been a team problem all year is a snipe imo. An easy call to make after a loss like that but doesn't mean that its correct.

Fyfe, Walters, Sutcliffe, Neale.
 
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Those two received more coaches votes than Mundy despite playing fewer games. They were more influential in more games than Mundy. This is despite both of them having serious work put into them by opposition coaches - both receive tags/defenders dedicated to stopping them. Ballantyne was nominated by Freo players for the AFLPA MVP, Mundy wasn't.

Mundy had a handful of games where he was among the best five on ground. That's a pass mark, but for the most senior midfielder that's not good enough.

Are we ignoring the possible factor of midfield structures? Mundy is a big body and maybe he does a lot of positioning stuff to help Fyfe monster the contest and hitouts and allow for neale to come through and impact. He is 30 as everyone points out, maybe his role is changing and less about him winning his own ball and more about creating opportunity for the overall midfield unit to get first hands and then have him provide the hitup as a bonus.

As to his "look" he has always had that loping gait, he still looks to have the pace of the game. And imo as a TV viewer (I dont go to the games) he seemed to be a leader and vital to last night. Just down on last half output which everyone was. (bar Crozier)

If he truly had a 4 week niggle I think this thread is horrid.
 

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Fyfe, Walters, Sutcliffe, Neale.

Fyfe is the league MVP. Sutcliffe has been solid but has had his detractors. Walters played 8 games.

That's not an extensive list anyway.

I also still maintain that Neale is not a super damaging midfielder. Mundy had more (total and averages) goals, tackles, possessions, contested possessions, 1 percenters to name a few stats than Neale. Those are the type of stats that require effort and he must have done it consistently to have better stats in those areas than Neale.

Go look at Neales game log as well. He had a few quiet patches as well. It still feels a bit too much of a scapegoating exercise for mine.

If Mundy had hit free agency we'd see how other coaches and teams had rated him and that was extremely highly.
 

downthecorridor

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Through personal experience with others I think it's perilous to judge people by their demeanour. He would im sure also admit he's been ok but not spectacular this year. As for ability we only need to refer to 3rd quarter in last year's gf. When he plays well we normally win.
 

clogged

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If Mundy had hit free agency we'd see how other coaches and teams had rated him and that was extremely highly.
Sure, he has massive value. Lots of talent. The issue is the variability of his form as a leader. In my view he is closer in game temperament to Shaun Burgoyne than Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge. With Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin all nearing the end, he's the next in line. But he doesn't show either the killer instinct character or the quarter by quarter consistency that is required.
 
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Sure, he has massive value. Lots of talent. The issue is the variability of his form as a leader. In my view he is closer in game temperament to Shaun Burgoyne than Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge. With Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin all nearing the end, he's the next in line. But he doesn't show either the killer instinct character required or the quarter by quarter consistency.

You are starting to talk intangibles now. I'd suggest his leadership qualities are much much harder to assess from outside the club.

The leadership group is voted for by the players. For four seasons he has been elected as part of the leadership group. That's since the age of 25.

I have not seen any evidence to suggest that he is not a good leader except for his laconic running style and temperament. Not sure if that counts as credible evidence.
 
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The Black Sheep

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Fyfe is the league MVP. Sutcliffe has been solid but has had his detractors. Walters played 8 games.

That's not an extensive list anyway.

I also still maintain that Neale is not a super damaging midfielder. Mundy had more (total and averages) goals, tackles, possessions, contested possessions, 1 percenters to name a few stats than Neale. Those are the type of stats that require effort and he must have done it consistently to have better stats in those areas than Neale.

Go look at Neales game log as well. He had a few quiet patches as well. It still feels a bit too much of a scapegoating exercise for mine.

If Mundy had hit free agency we'd see how other coaches and teams had rated him and that was extremely highly.
After fyfe he was the most damaging last night and has been consistently good for the year.
 

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Well I'm no hater but feel Mundy had an average last couple of weeks and a very up and down season. I think he's admitted he had a pretty poor first final. I'm not sure why Dave should be immune from criticism over anyone else. I also think he just has that laconic style rather than not putting in 100%. I think he's not been fit. He's behind Fyfe, Barlow and Hill but maybe he should be at his age. Wish he'd hit the scoreboard more - think he's bottom of the mids in that regard.
 

couldhavebeen

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We have one but the name of Vandeleur. He is going to be an absolute frickin gun.
I would say the jury is still to make a decision on Vandeleur .
I've watched a number of Peel games this year and he is yet to seriously stand out or make any kind of statement .
A Pearce , Apeness ,Ballard and Grey have stood out as the best players recruited in the last draft so far .
 

couldhavebeen

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Well I'm no hater but feel Mundy had an average last couple of weeks and a very up and down season. I think he's admitted he had a pretty poor first final. I'm not sure why Dave should be immune from criticism over anyone else. I also think he just has that laconic style rather than not putting in 100%. I think he's not been fit. He's behind Fyfe, Barlow and Hill but maybe he should be at his age. Wish he'd hit the scoreboard more - think he's bottom of the mids in that regard.

Mundy has been doing the bulk of the hard work in the midfield over the last couple of months and has been keeping us in games .
Seriously some people calling for him to be moved back to the backline don't understand how much he does or understand how much effort opposition players try to stop him .
The players that need to improve their disposal from stoppages are Barlow , Neale and D Pearce .
Barlow gets the ball a lot but his hand passes and kicking are ordinary , Neale is one sided the same as Pearce . Both players need to spend more time at training only using their non preferred foot and hand .
 

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Yep certainly Barlow, Neale and Pearce need to work on their disposals skills.

Pearce has the potential to be a star if he mastered the basics and learned the appropriate time to take a run.

Feels like this year we made no improvement in the skills department.
 
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Yep certainly Barlow, Neale and Pearce need to work on their disposals skills.

Pearce has the potential to be a star if he mastered the basics and learned the appropriate time to take a run.

Feels like this year we made no improvement in the skills department.

Do you know how old Danyle Pearce is? Do you know how long disposal issues have plagued him? He is NOT going to improve in this area.
 

yoong

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Half arsed efforts all year, nothing efforts in finals.

Next year he should be relegated to cameos in the midfield, not an essential cog. Because not showing up until the game is on the line is not good enough.

Ok. Fair call, since he have patches where he disappeared or was kept out of the play, especially in the finals.

Skill wise, he is still one of our best players. He just need to lift his effort or fitness level, whichever is the problem.

Fortunately, fitness and/or effort level is easier to improve compared to skill and ability. Don't see why he cannot remain an important part of the team if he do.

There are a couple other players that need to lift their intensity and fitness as well.
 

yoong

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Sure, he has massive value. Lots of talent. The issue is the variability of his form as a leader. In my view he is closer in game temperament to Shaun Burgoyne than Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge. With Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin all nearing the end, he's the next in line. But he doesn't show either the killer instinct character or the quarter by quarter consistency that is required.

On leadership, yeah.
I recall Mundy admitted himself he is not keen on being a leader (think it's during recontract when asked about taking up the captain).
Some people don't like to lead, and it's ok. He can still be a solid contributor without being an on field leader. A player can still motivate others via their actions and being a good example, without necessarily consciously "leading".

Some people get motivated with the responsibility of leadership and improve as a result. Some prefer to be solid individual contributors, which is ok too.
 
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