Cloke - Consistent?

[WakeUpPies]

Way to bring down the intellligence level you moron.

 

[Seeks]

21 year old KKP who's learning about his game.

Spot on! Still 2-3 years away from his best footy, which is a scary thought for opposition sides.

Go Pies!

 

[Faz 2000]

Here to discuss, not to troll.

I follow Trav closely because I got him in my keeper fantasy league last year, and retained him again for this season. There seems to be a big gap (particularly this year) between his best and worst games. Part of that is age, part of that is being a KP forward. But there is definitely room for him to raise the level of his "bad" games, and deliver his best more often.

When he has his best games, he is the most influential player on the ground. He's a beauty, and you're lucky to have him.

Just a few thoughts on why he's maybe having a les consitent year than last... do you think he's been affected by Rocca being absent so much this year? Rocca last year may well have drawn the #1 defender - perhaps Cloke is now drawing that attention?

Also, a strength of Cloke's is his long searching leads, and double-backs. And as with any player who builds their game around that, more preseasons and building a bigger engine will make him even more effective than he already is.

I think (and hope, for him) that consistency will come, because I rate him very highly.

 

[Helfarch]

A little less consistency with forearms to the head would be good.

 

[Chase the Ace]

A little less consistency with forearms to the head would be good.

MRP said it was a push

 

[unplugged]

Contact between Collingwood's Travis Cloke and Sydney's Lewis Roberts-Thomson from the fourth quarter of Saturday's match was assessed. Cloke's action was a push to the chest that slipped upwards, making incidental high contact. No further action was taken.

.

 

[Gopies 2002]

Franklin and Brown both play as full forwards. Brown played a similar role to Cloke when Lynch was still around and Franklin sometimes pushes further upfield. The majority of their game time is still as full forwards though.

I think part of the issue for Cloke is his best role is pushing further upfield (ie as a true CHF). However with Rocca struggling they have played him closer to goal and IMO he is still adapting to that role.

 

[Chase the Ace]

Franklin and Brown both play as full forwards. Brown played a similar role to Cloke when Lynch was still around and Franklin sometimes pushes further upfield. The majority of their game time is still as full forwards though.

I think part of the issue for Cloke is his best role is pushing further upfield (ie as a true CHF). However with Rocca struggling they have played him closer to goal and IMO he is still adapting to that role.

Finally someone talking some sense and worthy of a serious reply.

Cloke is used as MM sees fit. He would much prefer Travis to play that lead up CHF role, but injuries have prevented that, so MM has been using him much closer to goal.
When unthinking supporters see him doing something different they immediately think the worst and say he is not being consistent.
They fail to realise (primarily because they are thick) that he playing a role far different than he did last year.

 

[WakeUpPies]

Finally someone talking some sense and worthy of a serious reply.

Cloke is used as MM sees fit. He would much prefer Travis to play that lead up CHF role, but injuries have prevented that, so MM has been using him much closer to goal.
When unthinking supporters see him doing something different they immediately think the worst and say he is not being consistent.
They fail to realise (primarily because they are thick) that he playing a role far different than he did last year.

Dominating one week and becoming a bystander the next week is consistent? Even with Rocca in the side Cloke's performance is never consistent, he either dominates or he dissapears and we usually lose when he does go missing (no shit). And so far he has gone missing too often.

What is his change in role? "Ok Clokely this week you go stand in the corner and do nothing, this sounds about right." Cloke needs to try harder to get himself into the match when the mids are down, which happens often.

Or he needs to tell Mick he doesn't like the bystander role

Hopefully he plays a good game this week with Fraser likely to be included.

 

[Chase the Ace]

Do you get toe jam?

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

Do you get toe jam?

Only when kicking the arse of Carlton Supporters...

But back on topic... Saturday's match is as good a pointer as any as to how our players can be on and off. Daisy breaks the shackles in the 1st and 2nd, gets the best defender on him and is suddenly quiet for the rest of the game.

Not dissimilar to Travis' efforts in the last 3. He was severely double-tagged in the Melbourne class and boy was he ropable. Then Setanta O'Hatpin plays the man instead of the ball and with some blind-siding by the umpires as to aforementioned Blues' behaviour he is forced to the point of frustration. BAM. 1 week off.

I'm more impressed he's bounced back this week. You knew he was going to get some attention, but JA and Woody managed to draw some attention as well as Daisy and it eases up on Travis. And suddenly it's back in it.

It's as much his teammates' responsibility as it is his to get back 'up'. They need to cover, block, swap, rattle and bump to make sure the defenders aren't able to do their job and bring our big fellas back into the game.

 

[Helfarch]

.

You know that's half luck and half Hall

 

[shawthing09]

That was last season, the main issue with Cloke IMO is he has taken a step back this year while the other young KPPs (Roughead, Franklin and so on) has all taken a step forward. Cloke has all the tools to be great but he goes missing in nearly all of our losses.

Hopefully he rips if up next week and continue to play good footy for the rest of this year, we need it. Last thing Collingwood needs is for Bock to go on a rampage next week while Cloke does nothing.

Cloke has taken a step back in the absence of Rocca, where Rocca used to atract all the attention it has now been much more of Cloke's burden. He has been made play a bit deeper too where it is easier to zone off into his space.

As a team we have played worse too making it harder for a foward playing deeper.

Fowards like Roughhead and Franklin can't be compared to Cloke this year as they have had the benifit of each other clearing the space for them where as Cloke hasn't had that as much. Also it hasn't been a step back for him really as he is starting to become much more dangerous closer to goal in both his kicknig and contested marking in the foward 50 which is much more valuable then getting it on the long lead IMO.

 

[Pies4Premiers]

Travis is the biggest key to our team over the next 10+ years, he is an absolute star and is definetly a great player, anyone who bags him or any of his abilities are just stupid

 

[WakeUpPies]

Travis is the biggest key to our team over the next 10+ years, he is an absolute star and is definetly a great player, anyone who bags him or any of his abilities are just stupid

No one is bagging Cloke. Maybe you should look in the mirror before calling anyone stupid.

 

[Chase the Ace]

He can't, you won't let anyone near it

 

[WakeUpPies]

Do you get nappy rash?

 

[jackcass]

I would have thought that even the great CHF's weren't overly consistent in their first few years. Still just a pup, let him develop!

 

[Somebody]

Only when kicking the arse of Carlton Supporters...

But back on topic... Saturday's match is as good a pointer as any as to how our players can be on and off. Daisy breaks the shackles in the 1st and 2nd, gets the best defender on him and is suddenly quiet for the rest of the game.

Not dissimilar to Travis' efforts in the last 3. He was severely double-tagged in the Melbourne class and boy was he ropable. Then Setanta O'Hatpin plays the man instead of the ball and with some blind-siding by the umpires as to aforementioned Blues' behaviour he is forced to the point of frustration. BAM. 1 week off.

I'm more impressed he's bounced back this week. You knew he was going to get some attention, but JA and Woody managed to draw some attention as well as Daisy and it eases up on Travis. And suddenly it's back in it.

It's as much his teammates' responsibility as it is his to get back 'up'. They need to cover, block, swap, rattle and bump to make sure the defenders aren't able to do their job and bring our big fellas back into the game.

Right which is why Anthony was so important vs Sydney. Quite possibly was the straw that broke Sydney's defensive back.

 

[adzarani]

When is Cloke going to be expected to hurt opposition sides on the scoreboard?

On the weekend he had several opportunities from set shots and didn't convert any, 3 didn't make the distance from 50. His only goal was essentially a crumbing effort.

He has kicked over half (12) his goals in 3 matches (Ess, Geel, WC) and 9 of those once the game was well and truly over.

He does spend time leading up the ground, but contrary to what many people have said, does spend plenty of time close to goal. I don't question his value as a marking target, but his ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard I do question.

He is approaching 75 games, is it fair to expect a better return on the scoreboard from him?

 

[Optimax]

those three games were when he played as a full forward, since he has been a lead up chf meaning no one expects five or six goals a game.

2 or 3 plus 15-20 possesions and 12 marks is expected

 

[Kirby]

His kicking was all over the place on Saturday but i suspect with his kicking style that those swirly wind days are always going to trouble him.

He's playing very well at the moment though and his hands are great.

Opti's right, when playing the lead up role I think 2-3 goals is a good return.

 

[adzarani]

those three games were when he played as a full forward, since he has been a lead up chf meaning no one expects five or six goals a game.

2 or 3 plus 15-20 possesions and 12 marks is expected

I guess you would be dissapointed with his season so far?

He is falling well short of your expectations averaging, 7.2 Marks, 13.5 Disp
and 1.6 Goals per game.

I was more talking about the expectation on him to convert opportunities, take his chances and do some damage on the scoreboard when the game is there to be won. Which for mine he has done against Geel. & Syd this year.

Against Geelong, we played a Pagan's paddock style setup so I guess you could call Cloke FF in that match.

But just because he starts 15-20m out from goal a centre bounce doesn't mean he is playing FF, he always leads up the ground, and he always has chances to mark well inside 50. For eg Pendlebury baiscally started as FF against WC and Lokyer spent time as FF against Ess.

To boldly declare that Cloke played FF in those 3 games, but up the ground in every other game just seems like a convienient off the cuff answer.

 

[Optimax]

I guess you would be dissapointed with his season so far?

He is falling well short of your expectations averaging, 7.2 Marks, 13.5 Disp
and 1.6 Goals per game.

I was more talking about the expectation on him to convert opportunities, take his chances and do some damage on the scoreboard when the game is there to be won. Which for mine he has done against Geel. & Syd this year.

Against Geelong, we played a Pagan's paddock style setup so I guess you could call Cloke FF in that match.

But just because he starts 15-20m out from goal a centre bounce doesn't mean he is playing FF, he always leads up the ground, and he always has chances to mark well inside 50. For eg Pendlebury baiscally started as FF against WC and Lokyer spent time as FF against Ess.

To boldly declare that Cloke played FF in those 3 games, but up the ground in every other game just seems like a convienient off the cuff answer.

I have been critical pof cloke this year, his best has been awesome but his worst has been poor, and he hasnt had two good games together apart from perhaps the past fortnight.

It wasnt an off the cuff response the game against essendon and west coast cloke was the main forward fifty focal point.

pendlebury was actually chf on johns and didnt start there and others were rotated as a lead up target including medhurst and lockyer and against west coast pendlebury started on the HFF on embley which was in fact right in front of where i was sitting a good 35 meters from teh goal square.

Yes cloke hasnt been cosistent but im not expecting a full forwards return when his job is to offer a focal point up at the wings and lead back afetr it

 

[adzarani]

My point is in every match he gets plenty of opportunity inside 50 whether he is playing the lead up role or not.

I guess what I am asking is, when do we start taking for granted that Cloke is a brilliant CHF and one of the best contested marks in the comp, stop being greatful that we have found a decent kpp, and start expecting him to take the next step?

Fair enough he has come off his copeland year etc, and Medhurst has taken the responsibility of chief goalkicker, but unless he makes more out of his opportunities he might not get any better. Most seem pretty content with how he is travelling, which is fair enough too, but when does he start to feel that he needs to finish off his hard work with 2-3 goals? atm it seems that goals are all he needs to become an elite player....