Cloke- reckless v accidental

[Gasometer]

From what I can gather, regardless that it was accidental and he had his eyes on the ball, he hit him in a reckless manner that caused a ko' that led to further damage occuring as he hit the ground.

Now if I get in my car and run over someone doing 70km/hr in a 50 kmhr zone, it is an accident of course in defintion, but isn't my behaviour reckless by doing that speed, and therefore likely to be up on culpable driving?

Gaso

 

[Royal Blue And White]

Originally posted by Gasometer
From what I can gather, regardless that it was accidental and he had his eyes on the ball, he hit him in a reckless manner that caused a ko' that led to further damage occuring as he hit the ground.

Now if I get in my car and run over someone doing 70km/hr in a 50 kmhr zone, it is an accident of course in defintion, but isn't my behaviour reckless by doing that speed, and therefore likely to be up on culpable driving?

Gaso

If you ran over a mate would you still be culpable?....yes.....

I liked Cloke snr's comment that players from the same team who seriously injury each other by accident should get the same treatment as when opposition players do the same thing......If this isnt to be the case then the accidental misconduct part of the rule should be dropped and only intentionally caused injuries should incur suspension.

 

[moomba]

My reading is that is you can reasonably predict that an action of yours has a high chance of doing some damage to someone you have to take all steps to remove or minimise that risk.

Cloke would have known that if you swing your arm near the head you have a high chance of doing some damage, but did nothing to eliminate or minimise that risk.

That was the reckless part of his action.

As far as the car scenario by speeding you should know that you have a higher chance of doing some damage to a person or persons. By not taking action to eliminate or minimise that damage (ie slow down) you are being reckless in your actions.

I didn't watch the Footy Show but I believe that Cloke Snr was referring to the McVeigh knee to Hird head. In that case McVeigh would have had no foresight that an injury was about to occur by Hird falling over, and as such could take no remedial action. Definately accidental contact rather than reckless.

That shoud be clear as mud now

Moomba

 

[Gasometer]

Well explained Moomba. Perhaps you should have been there at the Footy Show last night to explain it all to them.

gaso

 

[Contra Mundum]

After seeing it a few times - it seemed to me that the ball was about a metre away. Logic would dictate then that the contact would have been a forearm and not a fist. It was reckless - I know he is a Collingwood kid but he has a great pedigree and I can't help feeling sorry for him - but hey do the crime do the time!

 

[kelman]

Re: Re: Cloke- reckless v accidental

Originally posted by Royal Blue And White




I liked Cloke snr's comment that players from the same team who seriously injury each other by accident should get the same treatment as when opposition players do the same thing......If this isnt to be the case then the accidental misconduct part of the rule should be dropped and only intentionally caused injuries should incur suspension.

Cloke Snr's comments were ridiculous. how does two guys going for a mark and colliding equate with someone swinging a round arm into an opponents face? And how do you determine what is intentional and what is not? Just because he is a nice guy?
Cloke Snr also said that it clearly shows on the replay that it is the ground that did the damage do tyson edwards. But mr. Cloke, why did tyson fall face first into the ground????

I think you would have to be blind or seriuosly biased to think that Cloke should have got off. i feel sorry for him, but there could not have been any other verdict. Eddie and the cloke Sympathisers (sounds like a good name for a band!) tried to play on the word accidental. The fact is that Colliss smply used the wrong words. he should have said that he didn't believe it was malicious, but that it warranted a penalty of at least two weeks.

 

[TheBigV]

Interesting viewpoint moomba. Then what if a player takes a screamer and in the process knees a player in the back of the head concussing him. Even though he was going for the ball the player must have known that his actions could injure the player he's marking over. Does that mean he was reckless ???? I don't know if there's any right or wrong for this one, but feel sorry for the young fella. Hell of a price to pay.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by TheBigV
Interesting viewpoint moomba. Then what if a player takes a screamer and in the process knees a player in the back of the head concussing him. Even though he was going for the ball the player must have known that his actions could injure the player he's marking over. Does that mean he was reckless ???? I don't know if there's any right or wrong for this one, but feel sorry for the young fella. Hell of a price to pay.

There probably is an element of recklesness in your example but I would have thought that it is not anywhere near the scale of the Cloke one. Also I think in the screamer scenario the player is not combining an act of recklesnessness with an illegal act, and as such there would be nothing to report the player with. You could I guess try a kicking or kneeing offence, but it would be a stretch to suggest a player has a heap of control over what happens when he goes up for a mark.

Out of interest I think the marking situation where a player sticks the leg out to fend away a player coming in to spoil is borderline reckless. Most are alright but the odd one I think is dangerous.

Moomba

 

[Angus1]

That segment on the footy show last night was nothing more then a Collingwood whinge.
Only this time Eddie got David Cloke to do it rather then make himself look like a foolish cry boy.
That should never have been on a Grand Final edition Footy Show.

 

[Gasometer]

Was that you then Angus calling out for Cloke Snr to 'get off'? LOL

Swear I could hear someone yelling that out in all seriousness.

It should have been on the Footy Show, but I don't think Cloke Snr should have gone out there. He was too fired up and made the lil fella look like he can't stand up for himself. Some spiteful baiting will come Cloke Jnr's way next season for the whole confounded episode last night I suspect. He's 20 yrs old for goodness sake, not 14!

I feel sorry for him.

But not as much as I did when Jase Mc got rubbed out in 99 because you bet...I am biased.

As soon as Jase Mc did what he did I knew he was a goner. Pity noone at Pie Land has come fwd and said that.

The one that still gets me was Hamill's kneeing...how he got off on that still amazes me. Didn't matter though, he like Dunkley played like chooks in the GF's. Cloke Jnr would have probably ended up the same.

Gaso

 

[Angus1]

I actually like the bloke and are sorry that he wont be playing. However they were basicaly saying after just comming from a failed appeal that the tribunual doesn't know what it's doing.
As if somehow it's the tribunuals fault for him not playing.
I just think after an incident like that you have to cop it on the chin and suffer the consequences.
Whinging about it on the biggest Footy Show of the year is not going to help things and makes you look like a sook.

Did anyone honestly think that he would get off?

 

[stewart]

Reckless or Accidental, either way, 2 weeks...

Sad for the kid, but right call by both Tribunal and appeals tribunal...

Stewart

 

[DP Centrelink]

Re: Re: Cloke- reckless v accidental

Originally posted by Royal Blue And White


If you ran over a mate would you still be culpable?....yes.....

I liked Cloke snr's comment that players from the same team who seriously injury each other by accident should get the same treatment as when opposition players do the same thing......If this isnt to be the case then the accidental misconduct part of the rule should be dropped and only intentionally caused injuries should incur suspension.

That is absolute bull****,coming from a player whose elbows never descended below horizontal when playing.The segment last night was an absolute farce.But what else do you expect from 3 chins and his moron sidekick Cloke and collingwood got off lightly.

 

[PJK]

To call the strike accidental is to stretch the truth. He didn't want to concuss or break bones, or get reported and miss the grand Final, but he meant to belt him about the head. From the first time we play there is the intention to put pressure on the opposition in a marking contest. If the ball is in the vicinity you have a good swing at it, and if you miss you at least give you opponent a good clip around the ears - it's part of the game. Occasionally you get the timing wrong and make more contact than you want, and rightly you then get suspended. It happened to Jason McCartney in 99. He paid the price. Except he admitted he was reckless and copped missing the Grand Final. Compare his appearance on the Footy Show with the embarrassing pantamine last night. Jason Cloke has been badly advised. By all means appeal and try to get off as long as you can, but when it is all over, be a man, admit the mistake, and get on with life.

 

[dana18211]

Even though I hate the maggies, I felt so sorry for Cloke on the footy show......it was so emotional

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Gasometer
It should have been on the Footy Show, but I don't think Cloke Snr should have gone out there. He was too fired up and made the lil fella look like he can't stand up for himself. Some spiteful baiting will come Cloke Jnr's way next season for the whole confounded episode last night I suspect. He's 20 yrs old for goodness sake, not 14!

May be 20, but appears to have the IQ of a 14 year old ... then again so does David Cloke. Just as well the family has some football ability

 

[NeoBlaze]

he should take counselling from robert copeland, he's missed out this year too.....and did he miss last year as well?

 

[DMcD]

Originally posted by NeoBlaze
he should take counselling from robert copeland, he's missed out this year too.....and did he miss last year as well?

Yeh he did. How stiff is he.

 

[DMcD]

Gee I reckon you lot are a bit harsh on the kid. It was in my mind an accident. And unless we agree with the 'sanitisation' of the game ala Mike Sheahan then he was hard done by.

Any of us that complained about McCartney being rubbed out should not agree with Cloke's suspension, in my book.

It is still a man's game

 

[moomba]

Copeland played the GF last year.

As for McCartney I don't know that there were too many that would have complained about his suspension either. As soon as I saw it I thought "You f**cking idiot, you're gone".

Moomba

 

[DMcD]

Originally posted by moomba
Copeland played the GF last year.

As for McCartney I don't know that there were too many that would have complained about his suspension either. As soon as I saw it I thought "You f**cking idiot, you're gone".

Moomba

My mistake Moomba. I was sure that Copeland was dropped for last years GF.

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by dana18211
Even though I hate the maggies, I felt so sorry for Cloke on the footy show......it was so emotional

I felt sorry for him initially, but the way they have carried on since has changed my opinion. Wonder boys have marked the Collingwood game down on the calendar already...

 

[Groucho]

Originally posted by DMcD
Gee I reckon you lot are a bit harsh on the kid. It was in my mind an accident. And unless we agree with the 'sanitisation' of the game ala Mike Sheahan then he was hard done by.

Any of us that complained about McCartney being rubbed out should not agree with Cloke's suspension, in my book.

It is still a man's game

I don't recall too many North supporters saying that Jase should have got off. Most of us cringed and shook our heads at the time knowing full well he was gone. Don't think he got half an hour on the Footy Show though!

 

[roofus]

Originally posted by Angus1
That segment on the footy show last night was nothing more then a Collingwood whinge.
Only this time Eddie got David Cloke to do it rather then make himself look like a foolish cry boy.
That should never have been on a Grand Final edition Footy Show.

I agree, it was pure Eddie/Collingwood self indulgence and spoiled what should have been a fun show.

 

[Passmore]

Originally posted by Angus1
That segment on the footy show last night was nothing more then a Collingwood whinge.
Only this time Eddie got David Cloke to do it rather then make himself look like a foolish cry boy.
That should never have been on a Grand Final edition Footy Show.

Agree 100%. A case of McGuire getting someone else to do his dirty work for him. Took two very emotional people and thrust them in the spotlight. Poor form McGuire.
I couldn't see what was gained from last night. All David Cloke did was make a fool of himself. Jason Cloke was understandably feeling sh1thouse and probably just wanted to crawl into a hole and hide.
In the end the facts remain that he belted another player in the head. Be it accidental or not he did it. Whether he loves his mum or, takes his sister to the movies is irrelevent. Two weeks was a fair result.